Information on PIT (Pilot Instructor Training)

[Guest jefiner5678]

My husband will be going to PIT soon in San Antonio. I'd like to visit him a few times but I'm not sure he'll have the time. Does anyone know how busy he'll be or what PIT will be like for him?

Thanks

[Toro]

PIT is pretty laid back, much more low stress than UPT - he should have plenty of free time. When I went through I flew about three times a week, but the debriefs didn't take as long as UPT debriefs. If he's a FAIP he's got the potential for proficiency advancing through a few rides as well - I think I skipped 3 or 4 - and he should be familiar with the systems, so studying isn't really necessary.

[Guest jefiner5678]

Toro,

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to hear that he'll have time for visitors and not be as busy as he was during UPT. Thanks goodness for that-right! He's a FAIP. Sounds like you were as well. If so, I'd like a little info about life as a FAIP family-if you have any worldy advice for us. Thanks

[Toro]

Yes I was a FAIP, but I don't really have any all-encompassing information except to say enjoy the time you've got with him now. He may put in long days, but his TDYs are pretty much limited to cross country flights over the weekend...no trips to the desert just yet. If you have any specific questions, feel free to fire me a PM.

[Guest Hoser]

Jefiner5678,

I was a FAIP as well (and unfortunately it was with Toro). My wife (then girlfriend at the time) visited me while I was a PIT. Go and have a good time. I am sure if he asked the scheduler ahead of time, he could even get a work day where he wasn't flying to spend some extra time with you. As Toro said, it is much more laid back than UPT.

As for the FAIP family, I second Toro 100%. The 10-12 hours days may seem long, but they are short compared to what he will see in the Ops World. He'll be gone for some Fri-Sun trips as he takes the students cross country, but that sure beats 120 days in the desert of southwest Asia. When it comes time that you want to take leave, you'll be able to take just about as much time as he has saved up. Since the UPT squadrons don't have any manning requirement (Ops squdrons have to have so many pilots available at any time in case a short notice deployment arrises), they are not resrticted to how many people they can have on leave at any one time. I took 30 days at one time and it was no problem at all.

Good luck. I hope you enjoy the tour.

Hoser

[Guest lukeabledsoe]

I'm going to PIT this summer and was hoping to get some gouge so I know what to expect. I'd like to take my wife too. What is the lodging on and off base like? And the really important question... How much do they pay you while your at PIT?

Thanks for your help.

[Toro]

It's been a while since I was there, but it was extremely laid back (compared to UPT). More than likely you'll be in billeting, but I know of guys who brought their wives and got apartments off base (it's only a couple months, so I don't know exactly how they managed it). As far as pay goes, you'll get whatever the San Antonio TDY Per Diem pay is. If you're not sure, contact your base MPF and they can tell you.

[BFM this]

Per diem rates.

Randolph = $44 per day unless you are on base, then $28 proportional rate.

[Guest sprint]

Do they send a lot of pilots through T-6 PIT training that flew T-37's in UPT? Is it longer than the usual program? Is PIT only taught at Randolph and is it considered a TDY?

Thanks

[zrooster99]

Yes. Most guys coming from grey jet assignments to PIT flew 37s in UPT...if you're talking FAIPs that may be a different story. What usual program? I think it's only taught at Randolph, but not sure. Yes, TDY en route in most cases, I think (again, it probably depends on whether you're talking FAIPs or grey jet guys).

[Guest sprint]

Thanks, by usual program I meant an IP going to PIT for T-6 training who has already flown t-6's in UPT probably doesn't need the same training that a pilot who had flown T-37's in upt (or is my logic off?) How long is PIT?

[T6Driver]

I'm going through PIT right now and it's currently scheduled to last 3.5 months. It's looking more like 4 months. If you're a tweet IP coming to RND for PIT then you go through the transition course which is considerably shorter. If you've never been an AETC IP then you have to go through the PIT program. Check out T6Driver.com for more detailed info on the PIT/Transition programs.

[Guest flobri]

Is it possible to get an overall summary of the PIT T38 course, including number of flights, frontseat/backseat.

[Toro]

Contact somebody at the 560 FTS, they should be able to e-mail you a pdf version.

[HercDude]

Suprisingly, my search turned up nothing useful besides this:

MWS vs White Jet debate

And it's not my intention to rehash that debate.

I already took the red pill and accepted a T-6 IP job. Can anyone tell me what to expect at PIT. Specifically where my wife & I should expect to live in SA, what I'll get paid (do I keep my current BAH?), how cock-ish the PIT IPs are, will they let me take leave, etc.

Also, anyone here get there Master's while doing a UPT gig? Harder or easier than doing it at a MWS assignment?

[Toro]

Can anyone tell me what to expect at PIT. Specifically where my wife & I should expect to live in SA, what I'll get paid (do I keep my current BAH?), how cock-ish the PIT IPs are, will they let me take leave, etc.

I'm very long removed from PIT, but here was the deal in '97 (and T-38s)

- I lived on base in the BOQs. The couple of married guys who brought their wives got apartments right outside the gate. I can't remember the specifics, but you won't be there that long, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

- Your BAH should reflect San Antonio rates if you get a place off base

- IPs for the most part were cool, but standard scheduler mentality that if they need you to fly, they need you to fly. I made plans for a trip with my girlfriend one weekend about a month into the program while we were in the contact phase. On the Thursday prior, they told me that they had decided to fly weekend local O+B sorties between Randolph and Kelly because they were so far behind. Despite the fact that I was ahead of everybody else and I was only one of two guys flying, when I tried to explain I already had plans, the scheduler told me "You know where you can find sympathy in the dictionary? Between $hit and syphills." So my girlfriend sat in my Q room while I doubled turned each day.

Also, anyone here get there Master's while doing a UPT gig? Harder or easier than doing it at a MWS assignment?

Do it. Dumbest thing I never did was my master's while I was a FAIP. I ended up doing it at my first ops assignment, and I can guarantee that it would have been easier at a UPT base. You won't necessarily have less additional duties, but you won't deploy, you won't have to worry about additional upgrades, and the prep for your daily sorties is about 1/4 of what's required for an ops unit (again, disclaimer - T-38 and F-15).

[M2]

I can give you some of the S.A. gouge, but remember I am on the other side of town at Lackland. Still, this is a great place for several reasons. I won't rehash them as it has been discuss ad naseum already; but feel free to PM me if there are any specifics. Plus, I work with a guy who was at Randolph so I can get good info from him.

Also, there are some good online grad programs out there, I am working on my second one, this time through American Military University, might want to give them a look. There are other programs out there, also discussed ad nasuem on this forum.

Cheers! M2

[HuggyU2]

...how cock-ish the PIT IPs are, will they let me take leave, etc...

PIT IP's are made up of pilots from various MWS' out there. It's not like they put on the AETC patch and become "cock-ish". Some are better IP's than others. Some are better people than others. You can't control it anyways, so just wait and meet the IP's in your flight, and go from there. You'll have a great time, although you'll get tired be graded by the time it's over.

Leave: if your sister is getting married, or you have a "life event", they'll work with you to get a Friday off. But if you want to burn a week of use-or-lose and go party in South Padre, it ain't happening. Get rid of your use-or-lose now.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Is it possible to be a PIT IP w/out having UPT IP or AETC experience? Or do they seek prior qual'd AETC IP's?

Just curious.

[HuggyU2]

Is it possible to be a PIT IP w/out having UPT IP or AETC experience? Or do they seek prior qual'd AETC IP's?

Just curious.

Unless the policy has changed, you have to have been a former UPT IP.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Unless the policy has changed, you have to have been a former UPT IP.

Is this a written policy, or somthing internal @ AFPC?

[HercDude]

Don't know the circumstances, but when I was there last summer I flew with an IP that had zero UPT time. So yes, it is possible.

[HuggyU2]

Just curiuos: what was his background?

We did have a Navy exchange position at T-38 PIT for a few years, and those guys never had any training background.

We also had a few pilots that were T-37 FAIP's, and were able to come be T-38 PIT instructors after their CAF tour.

[HercDude]

The guy I am thinking about was an A-10 and ALO guy. rumor was that he was such a raging asshole the A-10 community ostrisized him and he "wound up" in PIT. If you ever flew with him that's not hard to imagine.

[sputnik]

Is this a written policy, or somthing internal @ AFPC?

As with anything, requirements only mean so much. People always get jobs they're not "qualified" for. However, in answer to your question it is a written policy.

From the FAQs on AFPC's website: https://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/main_conte...mp;p_faqid=5138

"Hey, how can I become a PIT instructor at Randolph AFB?

See the AETC pre-requisites listed on this website. In addition to the standard requirements to be an instructor pilot in AETC (aircraft commander, minimal red marks in your FEF as described above, recommendation from your OG/CC), PIT instructors are required to have a previous USAF UPT instructor tour. It does not, however, need to be a “match” – for example, a pilot who was a T-37 instructor pilot previously can come to PIT and be a T-1 instructor"

There are hard requirements listed on the etca website, but I'm at home and can't access.