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Porkchop, I 69% agree with you here. You are right on about less incentive to stay for a career but, I think the people that stick around that are worth a shit aren't really sticking around for the retirement pay. They are sticking around for career advancement or good opportunities (i.e. foreign exchanges, embassy tours, random cool assignments). After all, how many folks on the fast track do you meet that punch right at 20? Actually, even a lot of donezo Lt Cols I run into stick around a few years beyond 20. If it is for the meager extra couple percentages of retirement per yr, that seems ridiculous to me considering they could make much more in the civilian sector. At the end of the day, I think people stay or go for a variety of reasons and not just retirement pay. In 2010, I made over 6 figures in the mobility world being gone all the time. Not worth the money though. Similarly, the average length of an investment bankers' tenure at a wall street bank after their MBA is 1 year. Why when the pay is so great? It is because job satisfaction, perceived development opportunities, and relevance have been consistent top reasons for people sticking around at their job beyond pay. I am in the same boat. I will be eligible to and plan on punching at the 12.5 point, and it is not contingent on what kind of retirement system is in place. I have my own damn retirement system in place. I am not sure why so many folks live or die by what the government may or may not do. As you say, you have maximized your experiences and used the military programs to get educated. As I have mentioned in previous posts, too many officers (pilots especially) don't follow this model. Instead, they sit around watching government benefits or waiting for the next sortie/racking up hours to be ready when Pan-Am hires again. Of course, I am not saying the government should leave service members high and dry so please spare me the "I got shot at and do so much more than civilians" argument. But, I think we are starting to sound like a bunch of entitlement driven, union-backed civil servants. Read Ralph Waldo Emerson's self-reliance please. It fired me up and reminded me that the government doesn't owe me jack shit so my goal is to prepare myself so I don't have to crawl to them for benefits either.

Just ask your mom to show you her drivers license...son.

If the LGPOS could haul more than two bombs to the fight you might do better.

The really infuriating, bizarro thing about all of this is they are talking about saving $250B over 20 years with this draconian, slash-and-burn proposal. Math in public, but isn't that like $12.5B/year? Isn't that like beer money when compared to the annual DOD budget? I concede that there will be a day in the near future in which we have to unplug the 20 year retirement system. But before we do something so radical and disruptive, shouldn't we make a real attempt to cut the fat, fraud, waste and abuse in the DOD budget? Here in my undisclosed location in SW Asia, you can't swing your reflective belt without hitting a brand new king cab Ford F150 4x4. Walk through downtown Honolulu on any weekday morning and tell me how many uniformed military personnel are staying at the hotels downtown. Maybe people who set foot somewhere in the vicinity of the middle east for a day don't need that entire month tax-free? Maybe evaluate the 18 gazillion intel agencies that sprung up after 9/11 and see how many are redundant? Sheesh.

I can't break 300, where's the WIC Paper on this?

Yeah, that's why it's called 'the service', dude. It's never been about what you "get" as an exit bonus when you're done with your time in the service. Besides, that extra stuff you're wishing you got when you leave is all ready there: they're called "veteran's benefits", and it's aimed at exactly the dude you're talking about who joins up, does his time, and then gets out. There's a whole shitload of 'em out there...check 'em out.

I think there's a nice little summary right below the picture. Technique only

Except all Americans don't endure the hardships of military service. I think the AFA's response to the proposal said it best: I'm not saying options aren't good, and I think the ability to leave before 20 with some money in your pocket is a good thing, but I think it's fair to say we shouldn't act like military retirements and civilian retirements should be compared like apples to apples.

Answer from a buddy who was an engineer at Sandia Labs. Getting around speeding tickets has become an art form for him. Edit: Bob is also the guy who flies and designed the Jet Sailplane, if you have ever seen that at airshows.

Where have you been all my life, you son of a bitch?!?

Couldn't find a better place to put this:

You're basing that on what?..... the VSP mess? I know PLENTY of people, myself included some days, who would gladly cut their income in half for a chance to not deal with active duty bullshit. If you are so sure that people won't leave, then why have a 10 year commitment out of UPT? Oh now you're just making things up. And I think the biggest problems in the air force come from people like you who just want to move people out of the way so you get to continue up the chain. You think the tired, beat up pilot who has been away from his family for probably half of his 17 year career is the one who gives a fuck about Friday patches and T-shirts being banned? You think he's the one causing all that fuss? He's the one you're accusing of being a careerist?? You think the guy who could make two or three times the cash as a contractor stays in just so he can preach about everyone getting an online masters? Fuck no. The people ruining the air force aren't tired majors or young LtCols waiting to get out. They're the fuck heads who disregard everyone on their way to O-8. Our squadrons' senior instructors and leadership fall into this mystical category you've created that accuses them of being careerists who are ruining the Air Force. Feel free to tell them that as they head out the door on their 4,5, or 6th deployment. You think there's a retention problem for pilots now? Cut that 8 years' worth of time out from under them as an incentive to stay. All you'll be left with is a bunch of douches looking for their chance to pounce on a brand new shiny rank. Have fun with that.

This is a really good point. Where is PYB when you need him? And just to save someone else the time, I tried refractive indices and it only hurts his case.

I'm going to need additional pics of the driver in order to better assist you.

No, it's not just you. I'm an AFSOC dude as well and this was a terrible decision by AMC. Especially absurd since our regs are written that we have to check GIANT reports that we now can't get access to. Definitely a decision with negative impact on the mission.

As gay as this is, it is not something that is being pushed for at the "operator" level. Trust me, I can't stand the fact that space operators wear leather jackets, scarves, and the same flightsuits as aircrew. There are a lot of other folks that share my opinion. However, it is not something we asked for, it is something a General (and pilot) pushed to show how forward of a thinker he was. Seriously, it's like we are the community college kids who are the state school's biggest fans. Always trying to copy and gain acceptance from our cooler peers. It's freaking gay. I think it is perfectly reasonable to disagree with these fake wings, and everything else, but you need to blame the decision makers, and not label the folks that do what they're told. Back when we had blue flightsuits, we were nerds, but at least we weren't nerds trying to be fliers. Cyber and Space have some cool shit going on, and there's a lot to be proud of in doing this job. The last thing we need is to try to copy the flying world and look like a bunch of wannabe pukes that worship pilots. Nobody wants that. In conclusion, cyber and space are very much part of today's fight, but we should have our own identity and let the aircrew keep their heritage and traditions in tact.

It really irks me how much attention is being paid to the SEALs at the cost of the rest of the guys on board (to include the crew which had hardly been mentioned before the pilot's son sent out his message on CNN). I understand why - the recent attention due to the Bin Laden raid, basic ignorance of the masses, etc, but it irks nonetheless. Ultimately it's good that folks are at least doing SOMETHING to honor the fallen, just wish they wouldn't be selective, even if unintentional.

Taliban who downed helo killed in airstrike If you ain't Spectre...

As one of the few non-pilots on this forum I'll chime in here. I agree that there should be an option for current folks to choose one or the other but I love this proposed plan. I have a 4 year ADSC, when I finish up my first assignment I can get out, PCS and only serve my 2 year additional and get out, a lot more options. Most of us don't incur a 10 year commitment when we go on active duty. I have no intention of staying in 20 years and I'm going to get nothing for it. I contribute to TSP but get no matching, I will never get an annuity or any benefits. I'll serve 4-6 years and get a thank you for your service, don't let the door hit you on the way out and that's it. The current pension system is unsustainable and there is no way anybody can argue that. It's a great deal and I understand the people who are currently serving being pissed if that option is taken away but there is a reason no businesses offer them anymore. People keep throwing up the examples of market fluctuations and what happens if the market crashes when you're at 18 years of service, etc. I hate to sound like a jerk but welcome to the rest of the world folks. This is not some new problem nobody has seen before, this is something all Americans face and is just the reality of any investment.