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My turn. I was back home not too long ago and somehow ended up chatting with a few gents that just happened to be elected officials. At one point, we chatted about the military. Want to guess what impresses them? I ain't no creed, chant, or cheer. They see right through that shit! Its the personal stories and seeing our guys in action. Take some of them out on a range and show them a team taking on the "enemy" and they just beam with pride. Tell them a story like the "Pedros" rescue, and they'll eat that morning noon and night for a month. Listen to them in their speeches. They never say, I went to base x and all the airmen chanted a creed and sang a song. No, they pull the personal connection string, "Let me tell you about SrA Joe Somebody, he's a real hero." Dogs and miniature horses shows are a waste of everyone's time. There are so many other great ways to tell a story of our efforts and not one of them involves a chant or song. Besides, looking a little disheveled adds to our true salty nature. There's a reason why Americans love the Dirty Dozen and any other scrappy team. So, to our deployed command chief, I offer this viewpoint. Make mission first. When a codel shows up, show them people doing the mission. Let them step on a hot, dirty Herk as maintainers are getting her ready for a mission. Show them EOD taking care of business. Let them sit down for chow in the main room (not the special little room) with everyday joes. You get the point. When they leave, they will have seen the mission and gotten a few personal stories to tell their constituents. Lastly, since when is it the job of the US Military to please and stroke politicians? I thought it was to fight wars or do some of that Constitutional defending stuff. Reciting a chant will not protect the defense budget. Now that everyone is doing mission first, there's no need to recite any songs or chants. However, I will offer this about the chant. If it was such a great and inspiring piece of literature, people would want to know it more that the latest Katy Perry song. Lastly, I will end with some leadership. It stuff like this that makes my job essential. And that is to reset the priorities of those I work for, but more importantly, those that work with me. Out

So now a sortie is defined as a group of Airmen with more inportant shit to do getting Chiefed? This absurd abuse of aviator terminology has got to stop.

That's fine and all, even though I'm not sure why that would matter. The real question is, what's the third verse of the AF song?

I'm no expert on 35-10, but isn't there a line in there that says, roughly, "Don't ride a fucking camel in uniform"??

No, to some people the US military has become a full-time extension of ROTC field training or basic training. To them, that's all it's about...haircuts, tucked shirts and reciting creeds. To the rest of us, the haircut/tucked shirts/creed thing was merely an exercise designed to instill certain thought patterns in people's minds and weed out those that can't hack it or adapt. It's a means to an end, not the end in itself. Apparently a lot of people haven't figured that out.

Could we have Dos Gringos do a revised version of the creed and put it to music? How many guys know all the words to "Two's Blind"? Probably more than know the Airmans Creed.

One of my favorite quotes defending the idiocy there. So knowing the Airman's Creed and singing the AF song makes you a leader? Really? So what did we all do prior to the Creed being developed? I'm an O-4 and I honestly don't know the creed, nor do I think memorizing it will make me a better leader. It's moronic attitudes like the above that's killing our organization. It's simple-minded box-checking eyewash, not actually being a real leader.

WOW, there is some outstanding reading to do there. Can someone capture that and turn it into PME? My favorite is having someone blink "douchery" in morse code while singing/reciting.

Someone needs to compose a 4 page e-mail with 5 bottom lines about how unprofessional the AF looks because of that picture

Apparently the good Chief doesn't know his own uniform wear regs...as seen on the Military Times forum. "Chief, those aren't sunglasses I see hanging around your neck, right?"

Correct me if I'm wrong (this old fart is getting old..), but can't the Chief's message be summed up like this: a. "I didn't want to answer the Chaplain's questions (even though he outranks me), but he made me do it.." b. "I want the Wing to look good for all the dog and pony shows coming downrange." c. "Oh yeah, there's a mission..but I'm more interested in everyone knowing the Creed" ETA: Timing is everything - what Champ Kind said too

False. *Standing by for negative replies*

My point is if you CHOOSE to have kids, don't expect me (or anyone else) to subsidize your financial choice. That's like saying we should add a basic allowance for a new car to the paycheck. The return on investment may be different, but having a kid is no less of a financial choice than buying a car, and the same considerations should apply, chief among them being "CAN I AFFORD TO MAKE THIS CHOICE?" Unfortunately people have this blinding desire to have a few kids, and then walk around hat in hand expecting everyone else to cover them.

Don't forget 6 kids and 500 xbox games.

The bar should never be mandatory, nor should you give guys shit for not hanging out in the bar after a debrief every day. The bar is a great place for tradition and camaraderie (and some learning), but it should never be forced. You're just keeping dudes from their families and real lives while you shoot your watch. If you didn't get the appropriate lessons learned in your debrief in the vault in a timely manner, you're doing it wrong (or you don't have a mission that requires a vault debrief). Now roll calls, First Fridays, et al? Cleared hot. Lock the fucking door and expect attendance or assess bar fines appropriately.

I think most officers don't understand the reality of the average elisted family. Most young familes in the Air Force have either both parents in the Air Force or one in the Air Force and another employed elsewhere. Since we have decided to pay our enlisted kids somewhere at or below the poverty level (hence the second working parent), providing some form of child care for working parents is mission required. The fact is that your bridge doesn't keep airplanes turning. Having an organization that supports young families does. Nobody is prying money out of your hands. Instead, we're taking the profits from the company store and applying it to the areas that would best improve the overall base quality of life. Could the store be better? Yes. Are the laws that govern military construction asinine? Absolutely. Is it wise that AAFES and DECA are legally seperated? Probably not. Is accessesable and affordable child care a mission requirement for a base? Definately.

I couldn't agree more. I hate when people try to use kids as leverage to try to pry money out of my wallet either directly or indirectly. If I liked kids, I would have some. Unfortunately, the only thing I like less than the prospect of my own kids is YOUR kids. How's about instead of pumping more money into the daycare, they roll up a few pennies and fix the bridge to the hunting area on base that has been washed out for several years, with no funds to fix it?

Amazing how the Jr enlisted, despite supposedly being paid poverty level wages, manage to have 2 cars, 2 cell phones, satellite TV, Internet, and all the other necessities. Maybe that's why both parents work. The BX isn't supplementing their low pay, it's subsidizing their stupid spending habits.