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Well said, LJ. I'm currently a CE Electrical NCO, heading to CSO schoolhouse soon. I've made it clear we take care of our business within our shop, don't care how other shops/career fields operate. The OSHA comment is funny because there are attempted jacks on us by people who aren't in our career field. Been reading and enjoying all these posts about shoe directed queep at the Deid and beyond. Thought ya'll would like another perspective since CE gets to deal with alot of it. My personal top 5 shoe story favorites in my 10yrs of humble service: 1) Emergency! July '10. Power failure. Transformer explosion. Shoe: running at me. "The a/c to the buildings are down!" Me: "Yeah, because of that loud-ass boom you just heard" gesturing to the still-smoking transformer behind me. Shoe: "We can't stay in the building if the temperature gets above 85F." Me: "Then why do I have to show up and work with my guys outside in 100F daily?" Blank stare. After the job was done I get lectured about how to make the 'customer' feel we care at all times. Customer. Last time I checked I wasn't in a company. 2) I was called down from a bucket truck by a chief. Not because of no hard hat, harness, etc. Because of no reflective belt. "Chief, the belt is not arc flash rated equipment." Don't think I would like a permanent disco belt graphed to my waist. <--Bonus: Our favorite SWA location. 3) Best base award people came through therefore had to paint all street light poles another shade of Commander Brown. Why? Shoe logic: Bucket truck + only guys that can reach traffic lights= only guys capable of painting lights. Screw using JLG lifts. Nevermind the bucket truck has to be retested if paint falls on the insulated boom. 4) Shoe: I need you to source $1500 worth of solar garden lights. Me: Ok, why? Shoe: The plywood Christmas cards squadrons put out in the center median aren't properly lit up (but ok enough for cars to drive). Yeah, huge failure. Lights have disappeared from inventory. Base gardens are now brighter. 5) My first base: Base commander conducts a no notice all call because an airman pulled a gun on somebody downtown. Exact words: "If you all want to act like a bunch of gangsters and point guns at people I'll send your asses to Iraq tomorrow!" ...because I'd never get tasked to go on my own. Anybody want to help me write a book on this stuff? "The Book of Queep" Like the Chuck Norris book of facts. So insane it can't be true, or can it?

Hmmm...I wouldn't equate praying for strength or whatever it is he prays for to performing homosexual sex acts...I mean, really? I'm personally a more privately religious person, but I find it strange that so many people key in on his religiousness and seem to be offended by it to the point that they get upset. Never mind that there are so many thugs in sports today...no one really seems to care about that because it's "normal". I'd much rather have my kids emulate Tebow's actions than some of his fellow professional athletes.

I bet he is...sinner.

Unbelievable. As if praying publically really effects you? And if it does you may want to look a little closer at why that offends you. You misinterpret the passage, it refers to loudly talking about how awesome you are and how you are so much more of a public servant, not simply praying, silently, in public. And dude, silently praying in public is no where near the same thing as being a gay. This country has come a long way from where we used to be if this is a controversy and good military guys are taking the side of the Michael moore types (not saying you specifically are Fud.)

I'm a career flight safety guy. I did the safety job with the Army Guard and I've been doing it for over a decade with the USAF. There is a comparison to Bud Holland that you're refusing to see. The difference is leadership intervened this time. Bud kept pushing and pushing because rather than slap his hand, everyone encouraged him or at the very least tolerated it, and over the years it led to the Fairchild mishap. I don't know the crew of the MC-12 in question, but I can tell you from knowing my history and just simple human nature, had leadership treated this lightly and turned a blind eye, there would have been temptation to continue or perhaps push the boundaries more. You seem to be pretty stubborn, stating things like "there's nothing prohibiting a King Air from doing a roll"...yet the FAA certification and the POH prohibits that maneuver. I'm quite certain that a highly skilled and qualified test pilot could roll a King Air safely. We all know Bob Hoover can roll a twin easily as well. The difference is those maneuvers are done in a controlled environment with a routine that's been vetted and planned. Not on an ad hoc basis over a combat zone with a normal crew compliment. Those of you that think rolling a King Air just for the hell of it is "ok" need to ask yourself this question...it's been proven that a Boeing 707 can be rolled. It was accomplished by a Boeing demonstration pilot. Chances are, you could probably roll a 737 as well. But how many of you would be fine if your family flew out on a Southwest flight and the captain decided it would be cool to do a roll over DAL on the way out? I'd be pissed...it's called "risk management", and taking risks "just because" is stupid. As for the FCIF, I don't think this ONE incident drove that. There's been a lot of discussion of aircrew discipline over the past few years following a few recent mishaps. As someone else stated, this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back and leadership felt they needed to get a message through in a very direct manner. -- Edited to add about "the good old days"...certainly there were many skilled pilots in the past, but you're omitting the fact that the mishap rate was very, very high. Nearly as many people died in routine training as were killed flying combat missions in WWII. Using good decision-making skills and refraining from doing unnecessary maneuvers like rolling a non-aerobatic aircraft has played a role in saving lives and keeping us from bending metal.

Not sure why the media and everyone is keying in on his sideline prayers - pro athletes have been praying after touchdowns for many years, yet Tebow is the first to actually be seen in a negative light for praying? Maybe if he had multiple DUIs and illegal firearm charges like most of the stars he'd be more warmly received.

Jags should have drafted him. Guess they didn't want to sell out the stadium. Oh well, jokes on them.

Why is being wholesome wrong? I'm not saying you said that, but it seems more people deride Tebow for his values than they deride genuinely deserving players like Roethlisberger (accused of sexual assault), Ray Lewis (implicated in a murder), or the many self-aggrandizing players just to name a few. Sure he's vocal about his beliefs, but the actions (or alleged actions) of the aforementioned others speak just as loudly of their values without the accompanying vocal cacophony. Edited: Grammar

You are being flippant man, honest feedback. You admit later that rolling the airplane was a bad decision by whoever actually did it, and I'll take from that statement that you also think it should therefore not be done/you would not do it. There's no need to up and crucify people over the incident if nothing bad actually happened (outside of an ass chewing by the SQ/CC), but it's the attitude that is perhaps the problem the FCIF was poorly trying to address. From your posts here you seem to have the attitude that it's NBD to depart from standard flight profiles for non-mission-related reasons, and that's a bad atitude to have. If doing something related to flight safety is a bad idea then we should be actively stopping guys from thinking it's ok to do it. This is exactly where you prove the shoes wrong when they think, "Well if he can't tuck in his PT shirt or trim his mustache he must not follow other rules." That's a bullshit attitude and we all know it, but it's incidents like this rumored one that give them the ammunition to gay-up everywhere they possibly can. I'll admit I'm usually the guy with bushy sideburns and long hair and missing the reflective belt, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna allow anyone on my crew to do something stupid in Uncle Sam's airplane that puts people in unnecessary danger. Flight safety, to me, is one of those "show me" categories of things where dudes have to take it 100% seriously and not do stupid shit; it gives you cover to do less risky stupid shit like growing a nasty 'stache or getting falling-down drunk in the squadron bar and still receive a pass from the Boss and a high-five from your bros.

From the B300/300C POH Page 2-16: "The Model B300 and B300C are Commuter Category Airplanes. Acrobatic (yes that's what it says) maneuvers, including spins, are prohibited." If you are of the opinion that rolling the MC-12 is not unsafe and this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, I will never get in an aircraft with you.

Rolling a King Air is abnormal, not unsafe. Rolling a twin is nothing new, Bob Hoover did it with the SECAF (at his request) and a few other generals on board. Matt Younkin rolls a Beech 18 (at night!) as part of his show. Re: Doing rolls in a Lear... Clay Lacy did it as part of his show, no problem. If they screwed it up, it's because they screwed it up...just like you can screw up any part of flight. Anyway.. this thing is being blown way out of proportion... especially with making comparisons to Bud Holland.

When Ron Keys was my WG/CC he called all the pilots on base to the club (back when clubs were fun) and spelled things out almost exactly like that. He told us "when you're flying I want you to picture my face in your HUD. If you can't explain to me what you're doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it." Good advice and it has served me well in every airplane since.

And the correct answer is...drum roll please...IT F&UCKING DEPENDS!!!! And if you want to be one...the correct answer is...WHO F&CKING CARES!!!! You're either willing to sell your f&cking mother to pirates to be one...or you're not. Let's put it this way. We are quite possibly in the last generation of manned aerial combat. To put it in perspective, the total period will have been a historical f&cking wink (1915-2025??) in the annals of mankind. If you are one...you'll have ancestors 500 years from now who'll know that you were. You'll be romanticized in a thousand years the way medival knights are today. You can either "sack up" and take your shot boy...or be a proverbial clerk in the check-out line of life.