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No it's not; actually one of the easiest answers ever. The same thing that keeps me from going around killing people with my CCW is the same thing that keeps me from randomly doing hit and runs with my truck, the same thing that keeps me from turning my propane tank into a bomb, the same thing that keeps me from dropping live bombs on a city instead of going out to the range, the same thing that keeps me from shooting down civilian airliners when doing Noble Eagle caps. Firearms are tools and a fundamental right. Just like freedom of speech, some use it for good, some evil, and most don't use it at all. The fact that skinheads advocate ethnic cleansing does not mean free speech should be revoked. The solution to people abusing freedom of speech is more speech, not less. The same is true of firearms.

How is a visual approach "lazy", exactly? Because it requires actual airmanship and SA? With the alternative being to type it in to the FMS and let the airplane do the thinking for you?

And I bet your eng couldn't buy a beer that night could he?

So you wouldn't attack him if you were unarmed, you wouldn't shoot him if you were armed, you wouldn't run away but you would roll up either? What course of action does that leave? Doing nothing. Which is exactly what happened in Colorado (and Virginia Tech). We don't have to wargame that COA to see how it turns out - it ends with at least 12 people dead and 50 wounded and the shooter having a smoke in the parking lot until the cops show up. Holmes didn't stop killing people until he decided to stop - the death toll could have been much higher. And you're main concern is not making it worse? I'm not advocating a lone hero going mano a mano with the shooter. My problem is with the passive victim mentality that has pervaded our culture. I mean, here we've got a FIGHTER pilot who says he wouldn't do anything to stop the shooter even if you had a gun! The lone gunman mass murder scenario will cease to be a viable tactic once enough people realize that the only way to counter the threat is with a group attack. The people on Flight 93 figured it out instantly and changed everything we think about airline hijacking scenarios. The same thing needs to happen with the active shooter tactic.

I'll take the bait--what you said is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard/read. You are trying to compare deadly assault with self defense? I truly hope you're not 'SOF'.

Cut 'em some slack. At least their gear was down

I would like to see a study done showing the AAD and PME completion rates for the individuals deemed causal for class A mishaps in the last couple of years.

Wonder if these guys had finished SOS in correspondence & their Master's in Religious Studies yet?

I'm sure this will come as a shock to some, but my belief is... The answer isn't less guns, but more! I've already stated I think it would be a horrendous situation to be in, a crowded, dark, smoky movie theater with someone shooting and people running and screaming in all directions. I would say there are numerous reasons as to why not to take a shot at the culprit, but there is one really damn good one as to why a person who is armed and capable should. It would have likely stopped the threat. Had there been several armed citizens in that theater who took action against the threat, it would have seriously changed the outcome. As stated, this guy was not brave, and the mere sight of a few muzzle flashes in his direction would most likely have caused him to go on the defensive and run. He does not strike me as the type to engage in a firefight, he is one of those gutless individuals who will only act when he has the advantage. Yes, as I have stated there are very good odds of hitting an innocent individual, but those persons' lives were already threatened by the shooter. How much more lethal would it have been with a person returning fire? Some would say double, I for one argue that it most likely would have stopped the slaughter much earlier. Sure, I can think of numerous reasons why returning fire wouldn't be the best choice in this situation; but the truth of the matter is that it still would have been the only choice. Most Americans have this inability to think beyond the "winner-loser" perspective, probably because we as a society are so sports-fanatical; but sometimes there just isn't a solution ("victory") to a problem but merely facts that must be endured and dealt with. This was one of those situations... Cheers! M2

Not really "Instantly." The passengers on 93 had time to think, consider, plan, logically conclude there was no other option/escape/hope, etc., before they acted. Hardly the same as instantly reacting in the dark, choking on tear gas while being shot at. I think we all (or most of us) would like to think we would have done the heroic thing but the reality is probably more complicated. People were scared, confused, covering their loved ones with their own bodies so as to take any bullets, etc. Would a concealed carry or a group of heroes charging the bastard have changed things? Maybe. I'd like to think so. But at this stage, who is to say that didn't happen and the good guys simply got gunned down trying before they could save the day? I have to believe that out of that entire theater of people (which included several military guys) at least someone had some of the courage the Monday morning crowd here proclaims to have, but that's speculation. I certainly bet if you presented this scenario to the men in that theater in a conversation a week ago most of the men would confidently proclaim they would do whatever it takes to try and take the guy down. But that didn't work out in the real situation obviously. Tragic all around.

This. You might be surprised at how many pilots I've flown with, who when handed the controlls and asked to "set us up for a left/right base/downwind for a visual approach to runway xx" get that deer in the headlights expression. Many are simply unable to put the jet in a good position as this is something they never practice. Of course, this does not preclude backing yourself up with the ILS for SA, but I can think of many times that a visual would be safer or make more sense than flying the approach. Example: more than once, I have had more SA on the weather than ATC. It made more sense to cancel and go visual than let myself get vectored through a thunderstorm. This is a skill set that all AMC crews need to have. Just don't be complacent about it. Treat it with the same level of preparation and vigilance that you would an instrument appproach.

Yeah, "what if" the scenario were different and a CCW carrier had seen him trying to enter the theater with a weapon and body armor. What then? Or "what if" his weapon had jammed while he was 10' away from someone with a CCW? Or "what if" a police officer had been on duty in the theater and engaged the shooter, and managed to kill 1+ bystanders? Most police I've met at the range don't shoot that well. Or what if it was in broad daylight, in a restaurant, with a CCW carrier who was an excellent shooter? I guess we will never know. But the world's a dangerous place. "Be prepared", Boy Scout. Side note: are you the guy that developed the "Active Shooter" CBT for the AF? You know... the one that has military folks hiding under their desks in fear, while the shooter goes room-to-room killing people?

Dude, I know you're just trying to discuss the non 'hero'/another realistic side of the argument, but if everyone thinks and acted the way you have described (not taking a shot if you are carrying because of situation, not charging the shooter, etc) then this douchebag has just given a sound tactical plan to any other psycho who desires pulling off the same assault. Fortunately, I don't believe this--people need to charge even when they're not prepared/equipped to do so. I'm mixing apples and oranges here--but a bunch of good dudes stormed the beaches of Normandy even though the beaches probably didn't look very appealing to the guys on the first wave.

Civilians are clueless as to what we do, day in and day out. Their reactions shouldn't really be any surprise.

That is exactlywhat I think. And, yes, it was a dark theater, etc... But had a CCW carrying person changed the end result to 11 dead or less, it would have been well worth it.

Disagree. This guy did not have a death wish on himself, and was unwilling to go up against armed opponents. Once he met armed resistance, he gave up. Had just one of those folks in the theater had a weapon to defend themselves, and had the shooter realized it, I have no doubt he would have turned tail and retreated. Too bad the scenario didn't play out like this event a week ago: https://www.allameric...-ocala-florida/ Watching those 2 pussies run each other over trying to get out of the door is priceless.

Anyone ever seen a shooting simulator scenario that involved a BG with body armor? I have, and amazingly even seasoned law enforcement officers hesitate a moment to comprehend why their multiple center-of-mass shots are being ineffective in stopping the threat. It's unnatural, good hits on the target but not the desired effect. And "head shots" are nice in concept but extremely difficult under such conditions. I am far from an expert shooter, heck I consider myself to be just a little better than average in some regard; but I can tell you that it is a completely different situation from standing at a shooting range and taking well prepared shots at a piece of paper. Would have some lethal response slowed the shooter down? Most likely, but again it's a matter of weighing the risks involved. A dark and smoky movie theater crowded with hysterical people once they realized what was happening, it's a tough call. Sure most of us would like to believe we'd aggressively counterattack, but considering the circumstances I can completely understand why someone would chose not to. Remember the Gifford shooting in Arizona, there's a good chance that at least a few individuals were carrying there but no one engaged the shooter. All in all, it's a very horrific act by a real piece of shit, I agree with Rainman in that he appears to be enough of a coward that even just a few rounds fired in his direction most likely would have caused him to break off his attack and flee. It's just a matter of how much of an opportunity there was to do that with relative assuredly that you don't just simply add to the casualty list. In the end, the old police training adage that "action beats reaction" applies. Given the circumstances, I think some response would have been warranted no matter what the risk or probability of success... Cheers! M2

Preview of the vows: ... for better or for worse, to love and to cherish, unless someone starts shooting then you and the children are on your own. He could at least have the decency to be ashamed afterward.

There is a crisis of masculinity in this country. It's bad enough that he does this, but then the reporter doesn't call him on it? His wife didn't even appear to be angry when I saw the interview. Guess she knew she married a coward.

"Mattis bet us 50 bucks that we couldn't put it down at O. Knight; we had no choice but to defend the honor of our service and our airframe." That would be my story to the grave.

Poetic justice: the crew bus driver at KMCF waited for over two hours for the jet to arrive at the spot and missed shift change. SC

I pray they release the CVR tapes after the investigation. We've seen some serious collapses in CRM in the 17 over the last year that have led to some very close calls. I think this could be classified as a close call. AMC really needs to look at the number of highly experienced guys they are shoving out the door to go fly other MWS's. The community as a whole is hemorrhaging experience and backfilling with guys fresh out of Altus. Additionally, we see a lot of guys who are slammed into upgrades (especially IP school) primarily for career progression when he or she may not otherwise be sent. This mix is obviously not working out too well for us. I know nothing bout the experience level of this crew (all 19 of them), but perhaps this, and a few of the other recent mishaps, could have been mitigated though a slightly more seasoned pool from which we are building crews. It's only going to get worse.

Was it an african Globemaster or a european Globemaster?

Hell, maybe they'll ask you to fly it out! Don't fuck it up, brother. LOL Seriously though...how in the world do you mistake the 3600' runway at Peter O Knight for the 11,421' (plus God's Own Apron) at MacDill? DURING THE DAY!?!? IN VMC!?! Here's hoping the General was flying, thus saving the career of at least one LT or Capt.

"The Dark Knight Rises". Very solid flick. Didn't find it to be as good of a film as "The Dark Knight" and Bane wasn't as good of a villain as Joker (hard for anyone to measure up to that), but it was a good conclusion to the trilogy.

I use mine all the time, and not just in the cockpit. Hopping from port to port it's great for figuring out currency exchange rates in a few seconds.

Smokey, history doesnt lie huh.