Leaderboard

You mean you'd work like every other career field.

Gents, There are lots of points that can be discussed here...I would just caution you on linking cause and effect on many of the things that you have discussed here. Sometimes appearances can be deceiving. I have seen the PRF with the guy that had all the boxes checked and he did not receive a DP based on "strength of record" or lack of it. I have also seen the guy that did not have all the boxes checked but had a strong record otherwise and he got a DP. I am sure there are places where Q-3's are withheld for the favored guy, as a matter of fact, I have witnessed it. I fought against it and lost. However, I have also been at places where a Q-3 was a Q-3 and it didn't matter who the person was. The major criteria used was the flying violation and whether a Form 8 was the appropriate vehicle to document the issue. As an aside and to avoid this becoming a topic, I am not a proponent of the Q-3 in all situations, but they do have their place. Without calling anyone out, I have also watched several people volunteer to deploy at minimal dwell times and then not have time to complete their AAD. In ONE case (a case I am familiar with, so only an anecdotal story) this guy used the deployment as an excuse to not complete his AAD. As far as I know, he received a P. However, I can confirm that he was passed over. IMHO, the right decision was made. My point is that the system does work sometimes. There are always going to be situations where you believe your buddy got screwed over, etc, but I would caution you that you may not have all the information. You probably have just the information that your buddy wants you to have and not much/any of the deragatory information. Continue to rage against the up or out system and push for change. Just don't be surprised when the system that you signed up for continues to move down the road while you are left standing on the side of it. PME and an AAD are not very difficult to get accomplished...would I like to see the AAD masked for promotion to O-4? Yes. However, the idea that everyone deserves to make Major or is capable of leading multiple teams is not accurate.

I see you are not a boater. Beer makes the boat float dumb ass.

This should take care of any concerns in this thread, either side of the issue.... https://www.craven.k12.nc.us/NBH/HURT_FEELINGS_REPORT.pdf

Ha! The top 20% are often the best box checkers and ass kissers around. The fix: assign a few grey beard LTCs/Majs to each unit. When it comes time to give out PRFs, the Beard Council meets. With a beer in one hand and a poker hand in the other, the council racks and stacks the future leaders of the Air Force. Do this at every base and then we'll see some interesting things change. Assholes and ass kissers will get left in the dust. Words like "knows his shit" "takes care of the crew" "hacks the mish" "runs a solid ____ shop" "always mission ready" "mentors the new kids" will replace words like "AAD complete as 2Lt" "did PME 1st day available" "1st vol to run the CFC" and so on. Real quantifiers. Sadly, our system is like a dog chasing its tail. Our Sq/CCs and up got promoted on this system and that is what they push because its what their bosses use when they sit on a board. If a CC goes rogue and off-script, the DP givers (mosly) and boards discount the strays. The only way out is to replace the system with people that don't care about box checking AADs, etc because we know that doesn't really make anyone a better leader. The Beard Council may sound like a joke, but think about it for a minute. Out

Tyson ripped off Joe Louis: "Everyone has a plan until they get hit." What he really said: "Everybody has a plan until they get hit. Then, like a rat, they stop in fear and freeze."

So how does this work exactly? You are saying everyone who does not take the bonus is going to get the wing staff jobs that get them promoted and the guys that take the bonus will be line flyers and will not get promoted due to lack of Wing Strats, jobs, ect. Then the guys that got promoted will get out and the guys that didn't will get kicked out... How does that fix anything?

And this is your problem.

I'll bite... I've busted my butt for the last three years as an active flyer, with a TDY rate of 2 days tdy/deployed to 1 day at home, not counting the days sitting alert. I've knocked out my appropriate level of PME by correspondence, which is not good enough. I'm working on a AAD, but its not good enough because it will take me 3 years to complete since its an engineering degree with a thesis requirement ("why can't you double up classes?"). My degree has steadily required more time, now averaging 2 hours a day. I don't have a leadership job in the sq due to my deployments outside of sq deployments. I'm stuck unable to upgrade to IP because of deployments. My TDY rate and unpredictable schedule makes it difficult at best to start or maintain any sort of relationship. Maybe CGOs are tired of giving their all to the mission, and being told its not good enough. Or seeing hard working mission hackers not get recognized for their contribution to the mission because someone else volunteered in the local community or organized the last unit social function while not being very good at their primary job. The thing that keeps me going is getting to step to my jet and hack the mission, or talking aviation and/or how to employ my airframe with my fellow aviators. PME is an easy kill. Get the appropriate level done at the appropriate time, but there should be no practice bleeding. AAD- if it really is important, then send officers to school as an assignment. Encourage real, valuable degrees, and not just checking the box. Reduce TA for officers-say 50-75% so if the officer still wants a BS degree, they will have to contribute to the wasted money.

To continue with this stupid analogy... You assume everyone wants to be a coach in the first place. Right now, your beloved system forces out great people who want nothing more than to be the QB their entire careers. They get penalized for daring to question the careerist path that you've chosen. It's all good. Eventually, all the QBs will leave, and you'll be forced to play with a team full of coaches and equipment managers, wondering what the hell happened. Best of luck.

Trogdor, oh I'm part of the "problem." I've written/signed hundreds of PRFs and read and graded thousands. I agree with much of what you say. I would fire a commander who upgraded guys not ready due to SOS. It is not a common practice everywhere but it is obviously a problem in many places. Standards should be the same regardless of your ranking. It blows that what you describe happens. I slap (really just mentor with direct talk and profanity) the stupid ass star QB for being stubborn and blowing his leadership abilities and proven performance by refusing to do PME or AAD, effectively self eliminating. It amazes me how many people say they are willing to die for their country or be separated from their family for most of their career for their job but are absolutely unwilling to take classes and write papers. Whiney ass bitches who will be replaced when they quit or allowed to continue at their current rank with pay increases every two years. It seriously doesn't take that much time. Blog less, sleep less or watch tv less. You are naive to think you can't be a run a good crew, be a good leader and get your shit done. Stop exaggerating how painful, distaste-less and immoral taking Coaching 101 is. It is a requisite for coaching whether you like it or not. I don't give a shit what you care about. Take your infection advice and shove it up your ass.

Just. Stop. Typing. Search, read, absorb.

*your

Tell ya what. List some background on yourself such as the current staff job you're doing and the exec jobs you fanagelled. Our peers would do a much better job at picking the best leaders for promotion than our DP givers. Thats because we know the assholes playing the games, kissing ass, and maneuvering for promotion. You know what, I really don't care what you think. And I don't see anyone else here sharing your views. Just try not to infect those around you too much. Out.

The problem with that logic is a player would not be potentially booted for not desiring to become a manager or coach. They would just let him play. The current "up or out" mentality in the USAF could not be any further from that. Please disregard the "like" to your post - inadventant click when I was going for the "Quote" button. On the contrary, I find most of your blue Koolaid-chugging drivel to be quite nauseating.

I think he landed a C-17 short a Dover.

If you really wanted to be a pilot you wouldn't bring up any of this whining bullshit....don't attempt to jepoardize the brotherhood by diluting the gene pool. That's too bad! In my aviation career, I made all 4 of my weddings!

You can't even masturbate on a plane anymore... thanks a lot bin Laden