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Grandfather = "Greatest Generation. I'm good...

I'm not an expert here, but would carb heat have helped in this situation? Glad to hear the crew got out OK. Silver lining in an otherwise dark month plus.

They most likely did not set the mixture full rich IAW the decent check. Fucking fighter guys, and the get a 20 year bonus.

Baseops is educational as well as featuring breasts...

Based on the thread title, I thought this thread was about Eagle pilots.

Honestly, I'll take competence and nail polish over a Vin Deisel clone who can't find my travel voucher any day.

Rusty and bonus apologists, You have to take a step back and look at this the way we see it here at the P-gon- from a "Big Blue" perspective- not popular, I know, but to make any sense of this, you have to take the personal emotion out of it. 1. We do not need pilot O-4's and O-5's at the 20+ year point to stay in. Especially -11Ms. Period. We are and will be way too fat for years to come. In fact, the sooner they retire, the sooner the FGO officer "glut" can start to unplug, and we can get the promotion cycles back on-track. 2. In general, we do not need more -11M's to stay in. Whether or not the airline hiring bonanza occurs is irrelevant at this point in time. Even if the mass exodus kicks off in 2017, the evidence simply does not exist right now to warrant an overreaction on the Air Force's part. Devil's advocate- the airline hiring boom happens in 2017. The Air Force is late to correct. No biggie- the Air Force will fix it with money at that time. Big blue has "fixed" these problems in the past, each and every time, and it will do so again in the future. Contrary to popular belief, the fix will cost less than throwing away bonus money for years and years with no quantifiable return for that money. 3. We (the AF) are in a fiscal nightmare right now. Partially created by our own doing, partly from sequestration. As a result, we're really taking a look at needs vs. wants. That's a very, very good thing. It's a self-examination that should have been happening all along, but nobody cared when money was flowing. Everything (bonuses, personnel cuts, aircraft adds, base closures) MUST begin and end with the money. 4. Reiteration of several previous posts- pilots, you are not entitled to a bonus. Ever. In fact, I'm surprised the following didn't gain traction at the puzzle palace: FY2013 - No bonus for initial eligibles over the 15 year point on 30 Sep 13 - No bonus for -11Ms - Same $25K/5 for all other -11's After the initial outrage and relative purge of this year's -11M class, the Air Force could have come back with the following: FY2014 - No bonus for initial eligibles over the 16 year point on 30 Sep 14 (same as the rule just released) - Reinstate $25K/5 for -11Ms; maintain this for everyone except -11Fs - 11Fs $25K/7 This novel idea has the advantage of weeding out a glut of FGO's, making every class on the backside (FY14, FY15, etc) feel special that they're even getting any bonus, AND being much cheaper for the AF. Before the spears come out, yes, I understand it kills one class year of -11Ms, but it would help pilot retention overall, the Air Force would save money in the long run, and like I said, future pilots would feel quite "special" for getting a bonus at all. Final words- it amazes me how many people on this site talk about "people they know" who are getting out ASAP; the numbers simply don't back that up. How can the Pentagon and Randolph use anything but the quantitative data they're pulling down? They can't, they won't, and you know it. Leadership cannot simply go with a "gut feel" when spending the taxpayers dollars. Military pay is generous, health care is extremely generous, retirement for life is ridiculously generous--the masses will not exit for feeling slighted by the bonus/bonus rules, and leadership knows that. Heck, wait until you hear about the personnel cuts coming in FY2014. The Air Force has been extremely generous with this year's bonus for every pilot- leadership could have chosen to skin this cat as oulined above, but they didn't, and 2001/2002 pilots who are eligible this year should be grateful with hat in hand. Enough realism- probably more than most of you can handle. Let the spears fly.

"In Other News: Man applies for government disability after having his ass torn off in Congressional hearing!"

Painted nails and a trimmed goatee? He needs to be straightened out (no pun intended) no matter what his sexual orientation is. Neither are allowed for males in the USAF, regardless of which team they bat on. A shaving waiver means NO shaving whatsoever, so if he's trimming his beard (no STS) then he's in violation. It's bullshit that people are too scared to correct such discrepancies for fear of unsubstantiated accusations afterward...

Hopefully this is the first step in getting the government out of the marriage buisness. As Helodude has said before, the fed should care about contract law and that's it, marriage is a religious matter and the fed shouldn't give two shits.

You could've used the exact same argument six decades ago when the services became integrated. Regardless of your views on homosexuality, the fact is today, as then, the DOD has decided that we will accept this group into our ranks. I'm sure there were plenty of service members back in the day who felt it was immoral or even against their religious beliefs to serve alongside black Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines. I'm sure some left the service because of it. We survived. If you don't think the DOD or the nation as a whole is resilient enough to withstand the integration of the LGBT community (which despite it's current large voice is an extremely small part of society), then I think you don't have much faith in our way of life. I am positive we will continue to exist while accepting all walks of life as has been a bedrock of the United States since day one. If I am wrong and this nation finds itself on the precipice of hell within a decade, I'll happily buy you a beer as we tumble over the edge.

As a straight dude and an adult, I would have no problem sharing a room with a gay dude. If something he was doing made me uncomfortable, I would tell him and politely ask him to stop. After that, it goes up the chain just like any other work conflict.

Don't agree with a lot of her politics, but this is pretty awesome. The guy she is talking to went to a West Point prep school, where he twisted his ankle (He went on to play QB at SanDiego State). He has claimed disability for it, and gotten VA small business preference, as well as the magical 30%. She totally calls him on it.

Absolutely. If you and the wives are consenting and of age. My wife likes that new Polygamy show a lot, and they bring up a lot of the same points gay people bring up. Valid points IMHO.

I'm against gay marriage (Wow! Did he just say that?). That should have been pretty obvious already smart guy. The argument against gay marriage has been very well documented and I'm not going to regurgitate it for your understanding. You simply choose not to listen and fall back on the common liberal tactic of belittling your opponents discussion: "playbook has been whittled away." Now we are stuck with the illegitimate decisions of the SCOTUS Prop 8/DOMA ruling. You can read Scalia's dissent for a real decision. I am not the one that brought up bestiality and inanimate objects into this discussion but thanks for putting those words in my mouth. I was specifically discussing polygamy and incest which involves consenting adults. And YES, I will look at you same sex marriage advocates and homosexuals in the eye and ask "Why is it okay for you to marry another person of the same sex yet not allow someone who loves multiple people to wed?" Again, if loving someone else is the sole criterion for marriage then how can you dare deny others that same right? Perhaps you belittle that argument because you realize it reveals your hypocrisy regarding civil rights. What it boils down to is that we draw a different line in the sand between right (male and female; the natural law of mankind that led to the creation of you and me) and wrong (everything else). The sad thing is that you are willing to fudge that gray area and deny the "rights" of other people's sexual desires yet insist that we are the ones that are close-minded. At least Vertigo is consistent and not a hypocrite. Finally, for your edification regarding the flawed 50% divorce stat: https://psychcentral....-divorce/all/1/

Yup... and there are lots of parts to that machine. Seems to me that we spend lots of time waxing/polishing the hood to make sure we look good (AADs, PME in COR, inflated OPRs), but completely ignore what is under the hood (Being good at your primary job, family life, actual leadership). Very few young pilots are looking towards the 2 BPZ Intern Sq CC for mentorship... they are looking at that crusty Maj or Lt Col crew dawg. They are also taking a very close look at how those crusty old guys are treated by "the machine". Big Blue hasn't treated them very well over the past few years and the VSP/RIF fiasco for the mid level guys only made things worse. You want to tell the "leadership" in DC how they can help things get better with retention for pilots? Stop making pilots feel like they have to apologize for wanting to actually be a pilot and for wanting to be good at it. Stop making every pilot feel they have to lie to their boss by pretending they want to be the CSAF or their career will be over as a Capt. Stop associating crew position with promotion (gotta send him to IP school because his PRF is coming up). Just to name a few... How about this... US Air?!? Better??? Once again... completely missing the point!

My guess is this is a good "pulse" for those in the building to check. Honest feedback that could never really be attained by talking to people face to face during a dog and pony show visit. All it takes is a browser, and you've got an instantaneous reaction to nearly all AF decisions. It's also a great way to get a senior perspective out to the masses. How many bases/squadrons are represented here? A ton. Liquid and Gen C post inside gouge, and the rest of us take it around our squadrons. One personal recommendation for a business is worth millions of dollars in advertising. Whatever the reason, I think the relationship could continue to be symbiotic. Edit: Fat fingers, small iPhone.

You might not consider yourself a homophobe but you are. If simply talking to a person who has a lisp and shakes his head when he talks makes you uncomfortable then you are pretty far down the road of homophobia. You claim you aren't close minded yet you state multiple times that you are uncomfortable even being around a gay person. He didn't hit on you, you admit he did his job very well and you admit you really weren't bothered by the uniform violations. The only thing that actually bothered you is that he is gay. That is pretty much the definition of bigotry. So to answer your other question, yes. In fact it won't take 40 year, people today are more than willing to let you know that you sound exactly like your grandfather.

I wish we had a system where shutting down scamsters is possible at a level lower than a House inquiry.

Almost as funny as when it was first put on YouTube 4 months ago.

Yes.

While she's at it, she should go after the millions of people on food stamps, govt housing, etc who don't need it either...guarantee that won't happen. I applaud her for at least doing something right, but make no mistake--she picks and choses where to go after people who are receiving benefits who do not truly deserve/need them.

Somebody's got a new chair for the man-cave

they heard the jet's engine sputtering Obviously the points needed adjusting. Mystery solved.

That said, we all know how reliable ground witnesses are...

I realize you got left out and it sucks. But the bonus is a management tool. Seems to me that most guys with 16+ years have incentive enough to stay for another 4 years...a likely seven figure retirement package, sts. Some guys may get out at that point, but not many. So I can see why they would not offer the bonus to dudes that far along. I actually think it's a smart management decision considering limited resources to throw at the problem. I say that while also fully acknowledging that it sucks for guys in your position. If you or anyone else is so pissed off at the AF that you would get out at 16+ years then go for it. But let the emotions settle and do some serious thinking before you do, since you'll be leaving an enormous amount of retirement money/benefits on the table. One more assignment and you'll get paid to breathe for the rest of your life. That's better than any bonus.

My specific question has been answered; a chaplain can walk if asked to do something against his or her faith. I did not know that. But my initial point was what happens when those who don't cotton to such and are ordered to do things against their personal religious or moral beliefs? So for the specific UCMJ article - the number I don't know - but "failure to obey" is my point. Amn Bill and George want to get married. Only chaplain is Father Maloney, a Catholic and he says "sorry, I can't." Amn Bill and George go to the wing commander and say they are being denied their right (now true due to the ruling). Could/can wing commander then order Chaplain Maloney to perform the service since it is his, Maloney's duty, to provide spiritual guidance and comfort to all airman/families who request such? Apparently, the answer is 'no.' My main point is for those that will have to actually deal with situations like this and way too many others that this and other recent changes in our military, never mind society, are going to have to handle. And handle flawlessly, lest the politically correct gods smite thee. But I learned something as well.

Scoobs, list credentials or shut the fuck up.

I remember asking as a new capt, why we couldn't have enoug tx seats to get everyone back from white jets, ALO, staff, etc. I was told that we couldn't have all of those Majors and LTCs coming back because there weren't enough jobs for them in a flying squadron. Funny, it seems as though Creech has a much different perspective on that issue.

I don't think the chaplain is required to marry anyone. If they don't want to do the ceremony they suggest other options such as going to legal and getting a justice of the peace wedding.

scoobs, ssshhhh.

Accept or be considered homophobic and subject to military sanctions. Your views/opinions/beliefs are secondary to theirs. Seems fair...

No. The freedom to oppress others with your religion? Yes.

Hmmm... let's see, we had a CSAF and a SecAF fired because they thought F-22s were more important than UAVs. We have current UAV pilots bailing ASAFP when their ADSC is up (anecdotal, but 5 of 8 guys in my UPT class in 38s who ended up 11F got stuck in UAVs and all 5 are no longer on AD pulling chalks the first day they could). We have a POTUS who has no interest in being anywhere near the Middle East, but sure does love putting hellfire's up the asses of bad guys who live there. Guys who fly planes with 3 or more engines are not only making the owners of ALL ATP's and Higher Power wonder why everyone is talking about a bad economy... they are also making their MAF Sq CC's lives miserable by dropping papers before they can get to the first vowel of the words "Creech or Cannon". Yeah, if I were you I'd be betting on those orders to Eglin for F-35 school instead of a UAV after signing that paperwork... good luck with that! BTW... those who are now eligible for the bonus started UPT just months after 9/11. If you told all those who spent a year or two as an 11F and ended up non-vol'd to Creech for the next 6-9 yrs that was going to happen do you think they would have all been jumping at the chance to take that pilot slot? You're right, nobody knows what will happen in the next few years... but I'll bet you $225,000 that you won't hear the CSAF or AFPC anytime soon saying, "Thank God that mess is over... F-22s and F-35s for everyone!!!"

Exactly--hypocrites on both sides of the argument.

By your logic men and chicks should be able to share a room together...but wait, it doesn't happen.

I have no issue with a superior rank correcting a subordinate rank in public. All too often, it is the opposite that takes place, and I find that to be way out of line.

I might have said something to him in private. I have a real problem with being corrected for the position of my sunglasses in public, so I think I would give him that respect.

Yep. About 1300 on furlough at United. Some of those guys were hired in 1999. Yes,... 1999. ---------- For those at the 11 year point who are considering this 9 year bonus, please read the fine print. My question is this: If you get passed over for O-5, can the AF involuntarily separate you? If you are RIF'd, will the AF require you to pay back your remaining bonus? Bottom line: - under what terms can YOU get out of the bonus early? - under what terms can the AF terminate the contract unilaterally? ----------- Let's analyze the word "BONUS". It comes from the Latin root "BONE",... a verb,... which means "to sexually assault". The "US" suffix is the third-person-plural of the verb BONE. Therefore "BONUS", in the vernacular, translates loosely as "bone us".

Do an Intelink search for CST and how effective they are for CT in OEF.

How about AMC search for some talent to man their MPFs?

You can do that in the CG and Army WO. As a matter of fact, lot more opportunities to do stuff like that. Not knocking the CSAR, but I wouldn't put it in the #1 reason for USAF aspirants. It's about dwell time at home, facilities and greater preponderance of fixed wing slots. The best paid regional airline, in essence.