Leaderboard

GC This is one pilots point of view. Tracking that we should remove emotion from this discussion, but in that statement I feel we're missing something valuable. Real leaders understand that we are never dealing with individuals just evaluating this decision from a financial point of view or in black and white, even if the bean counters are just looking at money and end strength numbers. I value realism and appreciate the bean counting realism you're offering, but it's a little out of touch. If the bonus isn't the place to show appreciation for a pilot's service, then please use this pilot's forum to find the words it's missing. For example you touched on it with keep the faith, but then erased it with the thank you for your service pilot pansy, that sucked and I know you're better than that. Our inspiration still lies in the warrior ideal, and we need leaders than can inspire that image in our folks, so they can go out and confidently prosecute the mission, bonus or no. This talk about the mission and the people, and finding the right balance of numbers that the nation needs to meet emerging threats from a statistical point of view misses a lot of the quirks that can't be quantified. IMO, we've created entire staffs to work issues that would not exist if the Air Force could inspire it's people by giving them an image of a future that they could project themselves on without cringing, gah. The bonus, why does it exist? The answer to that question seems innumerable but ultimately it's because A1 won't start with the people, its most valuable resource. A1 is starting with numbers to fix the numbers. Start with the people, and you'll end with the mission complete and we'll be thankful all the while. If the retention numbers go up for 11Xs it might also be because Welsh is inspiring, and the bonus is a sideshow that will catch a few on the fencers, but for the most part it's just extra. Check out Steve Jobs here talking about the future of Apple and its people, start at 7:40. It's a message you began to touch on, stick around till at least 12:55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM4tAXacpVE It's all about end strength numbers and money if I hear it correctly, we'll address the problems as they arise. My opinion is that the Air Force has failed to inspire it's people beyond the initial sacrifice without incentive, and that's a problem the Air Force cannot address with more money at ANY time, hell attempting to fix it with money is part of the problem! If leaders could inspire us all with their words and offer the quality of life that would make the word of the day gratitude there would be no bonus. However, offering a cynical remedy for the disease of cynicism isn't much of a cure. There is a more positive way, just get creative. A1 doesn't have the cajones to get rid of the bonus, that's how cynical A1 is. That 225K$ could be spent on a tremendous educational experience sending every 11X through a great school at the end of their commitment and make the covenant more valuable, while emphasizing the first 10-12 years as a chance to develop tactical expertise without that dreaded AAD distraction. It would be a transition. It would give Airmen a break at a breaking point and invest that same money in a less cynical way. It has the added benefit of getting our message and real leadership experience out in the university setting, attracting and inspiring even more future leaders. It would give folks the chance to add value to their cranium before they go back to ops or staff. That would be a positive message and a score for leadership and the development of critical thinkers. A hell of a sell to congress and a great message to young people wanting to have more options when they don't have the pleasure of serving any more. Thinkers and doers sir, that's what we need, the combo of art and science--develop it. We're worth something more thoughtful. The take it or leave it, there's the door mantra is so cynical, we want leaders that are worth our service and motivate us to follow. The decision to stay or go for a pilot whose commitment is up represents a turning point not only for the individual, but for the entire Air Force that will exist with each individuals continued service, or without it. We mercs will try and evaluate this decision with heartfelt gratitude and more grace than Big blue evaluates us. We'll try and ignore the 3 AM wakeups with tremendous anxiety and myriad images of an uncertain future, the snapshot of the kids and spouses faces that run through our minds with every deployment and just make it a financial decision. All I'm saying is that if you've come to preach to Nineveh, I hope you've spent time sounding the deep in the belly of the whale.

Actually, it has become just that. You and your peers have squandered this service to the point that people who just wanted to "fly and fight" in service to their country now look at it as a JOB. Not a career. Not some sort of noble service. A JOB. You know, like that guy at Home Depot. You had some people going for a minute, but it didn't take you long to show your true colors. Pathetic.

Maybe use a darker shade of pink?

Chang: Thank you for reaffirming my thoughts that senior leadership does not have a clue as to what it will take to bolster morale and retention in the pilot community, more specifically for the Mobility, Helo, and UAS pilot types. The message is clear through this new pilot bonus this year that those of us who are not figher jockeys are looked at as being expendable. Yet another giant kick to the nuts after the VSP, RIF debacle that has happened in the previous years. To say that the mobility career field is overmanned is nothing short of utterly retarded thought. I dare you to walk into any C-17 squadron and sit them all down and tell it to their face. When your job has you on the road away from your family more than 6 months out of the year because we can't say no to shipping a container of dog shit to the AOR at the Army's request while quickly sending the majority of our first assignment pilots to MC-12's, ALO, UAVs is just silly. People have been working their asses off for the past several years, marriages have fallen apart, people are stressed out, and now you're basically telling us that we have you by the balls because you're still going to stay in because the economy sucks, nobody's hiring, the 10 year pilot committment, etc. This type of myopic thinking is what gets us in trouble in the first place, and is going to lead to lack of experience in these communities. One day, sometime in the next few years, pilots are going to get fed up to the point where they start walking and we'll be left with the new guys, a few "yes men" mid level officers, and the senior leaders. This will keep reinforcing crappy mentoring, crappy piloting, and a hesitant outlook on the future to these new officers. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be addressed today, not years down the road like every knee jerk reaction the Air Force has done the past decade. Being a prior E, I also despise the fact that now most of us will be ineligible for the bonus, thus reinforcing the fact that we are not wanted even with our unique experience of being able to relate to both sides of the Air Force. Once again you are losing a vast amount of good people with great knowledge because you think we're too old and are going to stick it out to 20 years anyways. What about us that want to stay in past 20 and try to make a go for making it to O-6 or beyond? One more point... i'd love to know who you were talking to at Grand Forks telling us that most people there volunteered for that assignment and are now living in the land of sunshine and lollipops. GMAFB! I know first hand that morale there is less than ideal from those that have been non-vol'd to the middle of nowhere, being treated like the redheaded stepchildren of the Air Force. I can tell you for every person that volunteered and is happy, there are four that are hating life, waiting for the day to be released from the unrelenting grip of UAVs to get to a manned aircraft again, or the end of their pilot commitment so they can punch. I'm done. Time for another beer.

I haven't read all of Liquid's posts, but I know for sure it's not right to lump ClearedHot in that pile of "leaders." CH's posts have always been straight talk, even the ones people found tough to read. I think it's unfortunate he doesn't post much (or at all) anymore.

The point is that the creators of this country recognized the inherent virtue of Judeo-Christian teaching/principles and that piety, religion, and objective morality are intimately connected to the well being of the state and enforcement of civil justice. To think that is not what happened absolutely amazes me. Remember this? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Admittedly, the author of this article basically nails my entire philosophy better than I can spew it: https://publiushuldah...-or-congress-2/ Ultimately you have to ask yourself a simple question as a citizen of this country: Do our rights descend from God or are they derived from man? If it is the latter then you have chosen to be subjected to the will of someone else's moral compass (at least five federal judges, or whatever "rights" Vertigo or joe1234 decided should be enforced when they woke up in the morning). You will always be answerable to the State and the popular opinion of the day.

Funny thing about the bonus -- 'back in the day' options included (with an 8 year UPT commitment) the 'big bonus' that was 25k per year to 20 years aviation service (half up front if you wanted it) - meaning 11 years of bonus money. Somewhat similar to the 11F bonus this year except it was for everyone - and more money. Or you could sign a 5 year at 25k per. Then after 5 years take another 5 year for 25k (shit you negative). We also had the 'boots on the ramp' policy with respect to the bonus. And we even had years with a bonus to 25 years aviation service - guys would get off the 'big bonus' to 20 and then get another 25k for 5 (that might have actually only been 15k for 5 when going from 20 to 25 years aviation service, I forget). A couple years back when the 25k for 5 first showed up the 'rumor' was the AF would offer another bonus when the first 5 year only bonus guys were taking a pay cut. Thought being that squadron commanders would be making less money than the ADOs and the AF wouldn't have that... we've seen how that has played out. And bonus money doesn't solve everything - it really doesn't - ever hear of stop loss, rated recall, etc? All things we have seen in just the last 10 years. Been lots of talk about how the bonus isn't really a bonus anymore, but a part of the compensation plan for pilots -- for a long time (minus no adjustments for inflation) it was getting better with more options. Then the 5 year only plan kicked in. But even that hasn't been around all that long. Majority of O-6s around today, and all the GOs, grew up on the AF paying them significantly more money (in the order of 125k+) than what we are paying guys today. And they wonder why they look like hypocrites when discussing the 'bonus'? Not too long ago, when you crunched the numbers (I'm sure there's still spreadsheets you can find already made), it made more financial sense to get out at 19 years and go airlines (even Southwest) than stay to 20. Don't be surprised when that becomes a reality again. Here's a thought - if we are so overmanned - kill the 10 year UPT commitment - heck, drop it back to 5 or 6 years instead of 8 (make it retroactive). Our AB to idle and spreedbrakes, bang-bang guidance pilot manning policies over the last 15 years is quite honestly, disheartening. And we wonder why we can't keep talent? When the BS gets to be too much guys have and will continue to vote with their feet. Point being -- as evident by the discussion on these boards -- A1 doesn't know their ass from a f-ing helmet bag when dealing with pilot manning -- never has, probably never will. Serve because you want to (lots of reasons, different for everyone). Your reasons (I know mine are) for continuing to serve are probably different than what they were when you first got in. That's ok. Do a kick ass job taking care of the mission because that's what you're supposed to do and when a new chapter in your life opens up - don't forget to invite the bros to your fini-flight so we can drink your free beer and booze and say thank you. If you did it right, the bros and your family will know, and who cares about anything else than that when discussing a military career? e

GC/Liquid, Another point of view. Lot of talk about that bottom 25% being easy to identify...only easy to identify given the current performance measures and reward system. Lot of folks here agree that YES, it's easy to indentify that bottom. Rethink the whole performance measurement and reward system, and the bottom 25% will change. "The people who are closest to the work, know who's doing it". -Jack Welch. As a hook, this video mentions AWC...

Yeah man, I must have been born in the wrong nation.... these old farts got it all wrong. https://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=63

Chang, Holy hypocrisy batman! In no less than 30 hours, you went from: To this: And then ended on this: So, the bonus is all about the money, but my motivations for taking it shouldn't be about financial gain. And even though the last 12 years have sucked, I shouldn't blame the Air Force for that and military life is good due to the sole fact that retention is high. Really? Now you might argue that I'm taking your quotes out of context, but I don't think I am. And I'm willing to bet most of the members of this forum would agree. -9-

WTF brah? What's your beef with AFSPC? From an outsider perspective, it's tough to relate at all to this thread. Life's good in the space world, it really is. We've got plenty of opportunities if we get out, good senior leaders, great job satisfaction, great assignment locations, deployments on a volunteer basis (minus a few units), and the right people are getting promoted for the most part. I feel sorry for those of you guys that no longer have a passion for what you do because of the extras that now come with it. I mean honestly, being a professional pilot, particularly in the military, should be one of the best jobs in the world. The fact that they have to throw money at you guys and still people want out is very telling, and troubling. What's my point in bringing my outsider view to this? It seems as though the pilot generals looking at this situation are about like a space guy doing the same. Their lives are great. Pretty much all of the things I've just listed apply except they also have drivers/chefs/aides etc. to sweeten the deal. It's easy to question motivation and job satisfaction when you've got it good. Bottom line, I hope you guys find a way to get the Air part of the Air Force back to feeling the sense of pride and satisfaction that once existed.

False. They have the power to change the little stuff that adds to the list of reasons to leave active duty. Friday patches / t-shirts and other traditions building everyone's morale could be a good start. Next, stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings by admitting that not everyone is a warrior and remind them that their job is to support the warriors. Fix the promotion system - when solid 11F's aren't making O-4 in a huge shortage, that's a leadership problem. There are tons of these little annoyances that build up a case for bolting and most of them can be fixed at low levels of leadership. Rebuilding a culture that truly focuses on accomplishing the true mission would help make the decision to leave a little bit tougher.

Wow. Lobotomy complete. Seems like a pretty short sighted view if you ask me. Here's an idea: Physically go poke your head into a mobility squadron. Don't tell them you're coming. Just show up and look around. When you meet the CC or DO, look them in the eye and tell them they're overmanned and their morale is at record levels. With a straight face. Good luck.

- Gratuitous, graphic violence in movies and video games - Diminishing respect for authority and elders - Over-sexualization in all forms of media - Increasing dependence on government (evidenced by increases in welfare/entitlement spending) - Entitlement mentality of younger generations - Acceptance of homosexuality as moral behavior - Redefinition of gender and family roles C'mon dude, do you live under a rock? Times, they are a changin'. The trend is not a positive one. Ah, but you failed to highlight the most important word in my post: eventually. I still have faith in our way of life, but we have problems that, if left uncorrected, will cause an eventual breakdown.

Copy shot. All this looks legit. You're right...Big Blue needs to be VERY careful when cutting these guys at the 16-18 year point, as us younger pups are watching. While the cuts last time didn't really concern the 11F community, you can be CERTAIN that the 11F guys were watching. That, plus the VSP debacle, was a HUGE negative influence on retention. So, up to this point, I was tracking. Then I read this: YGBSM. It's increasingly obvious that the USAF cares more about the numbers than what really matters: COMBAT CAPABILITY. It's already getting worse because of what happened in the last 2 years of O-4 boards: AADs were critical to a DP/Maj select, and the USAF cared more about AAD & SOS DG than it cared about a W-prefix when it came to school selection. The writing is on the wall, and I know dudes all over the CAF who were watching. So riddle me this: ARE WE MORE COMBAT READY NOW THAN WE WERE 5 YEARS AGO? Start the RIFs on the 16-18 year dudes because they don't "publicly declare their value to the Air Force" (which everyone should read as "do AAD, PME, exec"), and you'll reap what you sow. Here's the result: 11Fs WITH GREAT SURFs WHO CAN'T FIGHT THEIR WAY OUT OF THE WET PAPER BAG THAT WAS THE LAST DECADE'S THREAT. If this is what the USAF wants, fine. Again, they're going to reap what they sow. I, for one (actually, for the majority), am PRAYING we don't find ourselves in a major theater conflict with one of our NEAR PEER adversaries in the upcoming years. "But how did we lose 80% of package AAYA today, fellow generals? We're the USAF!" "It's simple, sir, wrapping our jets in useless AADs and quoting PME readings simply didn't keep our jets from blowing up." "IMPOSSIBLE! A1 told me our pilot manning was right and that we're the most educated USAF in the world!" Loyalty is a 2-way street, GC. If you're anywhere near a HAF/MAJCOM A1 shop, I'm very very worried.

Just go old school and put them under AMC.

Another WTF. The math you presented makes the 20 year retirement the MOST EXPENSIVE option to the taxpayer. Time value of money, compare the annuity cost of a 20 year retirement (4 years in the future) with a 16 year retirement (TODAY). 36% of 7000 = 2520 ish 50% of 7200 = 3600 ish From an annuity calculator: 2520/month, 37 years of payout, 3% growth - annuity value present day is $677K Switch up the numbers......: 3600/month, 37 years of payout, 3% growth - annuity value at start day is $967K - Throw it 4 years in the future and it DECREASES in present day dollars to about 900K. Those are the annuity values, more or less. Whichever RATE you use to calculate, a 16 year at your 14-point discount comes 28% cheaper to the gov't. Reverse that, the 20 year is 43% more expensive (at the same term of 37 years). It costs the taxpayer 43% more to keep him until 20. So yeah, get the phuck out, you're too expensive. Thanks for your service. Now let's talk wages: The extra 4 years also costs North of $480K to employ this guy. If it is overmanned - that's pure excess. He's getting 7,000 base per month + increasing his payout every year 3.5 POINTS. To go from a 36-POINT retirement to a 39-POINT retirement is nearly a 10% increase in one year. Awesome deal for someone at 16 to get "paid" an additional 220K over just 4 years. He gets nearly 500 in wages and 200 to his retirement pot - 700K increase in cost if we're overmanned... Let's talk old guy retirement: Retire at 30 years, and 75%, but your payout is only 27 years! If he had somehow remained at 7000 base pay (today's dollars), his annuity over the next 10 years only goes up from 0.97 M to 1.17M. Now this is 14 years in the future - Today you'd only need 66% of that money (770K) to save away - This is an amazing deal for the taxpayer (comparatively). Every 2.5 Point increase has a marginally smaller value to the annuity payout. Each year, the member loses a year of payout, and the marginal increase of 2.5 points is worth less against the rate. Going from a 50% to a 52.5% is just a 5% increase. That last year going from 72.5 to 75 is worth just a 3.4% increase. That would be like contributing $0 in your last year of employment to a 401K and just letting it grow 3.4% with a bond fund. Stupid. Get out now GC. Happily, the old guy (O-6) sees his base pay also increase 50% in that 10 year time period, and the annuity is worth 1.75 M. At 66%, he costs the taxpayer TODAY 1.15M. Of course, I used math that assumes you could save money. It will be a loan from China that bankrolls all of this.

My disappointment is not with law or governance, after all, laws should reflect our society's values. Gay marriage is now legal in many states because a majority of Americans now support gay marriage. I am concerned about our nation's rapid shift away from traditional moral values and the effect that will have on our country. The percentage of citizens who look to the bible (or any religion) to inform them of what's right and wrong has been on the decline for many years. Moral relativism and postmodernism has taken its place. Notions of right and wrong have been replaced with "indifference" and "live and let live". When people stop caring about what's right and wrong, chaos and anarchy eventually ensue. We are Rome.

Because leaders should actually care about the people they lead?????????? I haven't gone to SOS yet, but I do remember being hammered over and over again in 4 years of ROTC that the number one priority of a leader is to take care of his people. However, it looks to me like you found the easiest route to fix your problems, bribe people to stay, instead of actually addressing the problems.

GC, Someone else mentioned here that serving in the USAF must now be treated simply as a JOB. It is so sad, because the vast majority of every single one of us joined for such patriotic reasons that had little to do with self-serving interests. To this day, aside from being a number and being treated as such, I take exceptional pride in wearing the uniform and serving my country. Unfortunately, like many, that obligation is towards my country and not my employer. At a time where so few a expected to do so much, you would think leadership would do more than treat everyone as a number, and try to fix their problems by throwing some peanuts and cash at them when morale or retention is poor. Leadership is so much more than that at every fundamental level. I have had an amazing time doing things I am so proud of in the USAF. I've been a fighter pilot, a special ops pilot and have had the honor of leading at a time of war. I've saved guys and been responsible for executing missions of great proportion. I'm proud of my accomplishments and what I have done for my country. More likely than not, I will continue to serve my country in some manner, but it will not be in the USAF. This is a 99% certainty even though my boxes are checked and the future is bright. Sadly, this is the opinion of most folks in my position. At a time when resources are tight, the USAF really needs to keep the best and brightest. Somehow the USAF is able to recruit some of the best this country has to offer. I've had the privilege of working beside them. Why do we treat them in this manner while they rush the exits? The glut that you will be left with is not the force that you need while operating at the lowest manning levels since force inception. I am cautiously optimistic that Gen Welsh will continue to work things in the right direction; my fear is that it is too late to right this ship. The saga of this ACP are not helping things either, and it likely will have zero impact on -11F take rates. We'll see soon.

Embraces? Nah, more like indifference. I live my life, I let them live theirs as long as it's consensual and between adults. I'm sorry you feel your moral code dictates that you intervene in other people's lives to the point they have to adhere to your standards. It's sad you were born in this nation (I assume) yet Freedom and Liberty is a concept that is foreign to you

I dunno, the last senior dude seemed pretty legit. Again, we really don't know who they are, but you do yourself no favors by attacking the senior dudes, you know where they come from. Let them see us bitch/whine/complain, but realize they will be somewhere around the party line. Like GC said, keep talking, I really think this forum can make a difference. That being said fuck UAVs.

Of course it's about money. And job satisfaction. I wouldn't do this job for free. Once either the money or the job satisfaction no longer meets my needs I will depart. And nobody in the Air Force will miss me, and that's okay.

The local area is your place of duty. The pass area I had while at base X was "anywhere, you just have to get back to work on time Monday" I thought I had an epiphany but checked again. Your time off is either your pass or leave, but not combined so it just means I don't get 30 3-day weekends spent at the beach each year. I don't like it either.

Fuck off. The facts you've presented are good. The bullshit condescending commentary shows that you're an out of touch douchebag. I say this as a dude who got out and now is back in full time and happy about it.

No, that's the problem..he IS serious. My favorite part that the old heads mimic now is the if-you-don't-like-it-then-leave attitude. Guess what general, no matter what you think, when most of us joined the air force this little gem of a joke called the 365-to-no-where-for-no-reason didn't exist, along with countless other BS maneuvers by big blue (RIF, VSP denials then RIF, non continuation of majors) to get us out the door without so much as a nickel to our name. The original game plan was 10 year contract with option to finish the 20 and get a retirement. The stupid military retirement system, with it's all-or-nothing benefit is what is causing all this pain. I'd gladly step aside if I could get a damn penny back on the 15 years i have invested, but I can't..so here I sit...biding my time...waiting...probably making O-5 because I smile and nod and agree with the boss in public the best I can stand to. Check check check the boxes, all at government expense, and for what? And before you even say it..Yea yea, yuck it up and tell me the same tired line "you signed up for it"....guess what, big blue changed their minds on alot of what was represented to us, and now WE are not supposed to be bitter.

13-12s Drop: F15E x5 RC-135 x4 (3 Ewo, 1 Nav) B52 x2 U-28 Cannon x2 <--Me ;) KC-135 AWACS Bone AC-130W C-130 Peoria ANG & Minneapolis AFRES

Jesus Christ. This guy can't be serious.

Seriously dude??? You pretty much just lost all credibility with every crew dawg in this forum. Retention numbers??? When airlines aren't hiring and the economy sucks of course retention is going to be high. You don't need an MBA from Toro or an ACSC Masters to figure that one out! Don't think for a second that the retention is any higher today because of brilliant and inspiring leadership from above. Grateful??? Gratitude??? We'd better get those Thunderbirds back up in the air because if this is the retention/recruiting message from our managers at the Pentagon we're in a lot of trouble.

Probably washed out of pilot training.

This is the most revealing anecdote and response in this board to date. Assuming Gen Chang is who he alludes to being and not a troll... Wrapped up in the response to someone who, for whatever reason, had to complete a useless AAD in order to continue to serve and be promoted is all that is wrong with the AF. 1)box checking 2) lack of mission focus 3) careerism 4) and most of all, poor, seeemingly impotent, leadership, reliant on platitudes and dismissive of anyone who doesn't reflect their image of a good officer. A better response: Maul, thank you for your service. (better to lead with that rather than the sanctimonious way in which Chang used it) You faced a tough situation. You would have certainly gone to ACSC based on the select status. However, because of timing, I'm sure you know that any chance for a BPZ would be eliminated. Congrats though, as an in-res school dude you have a great shot at O-6. You can stay tactically relevant and hopefully continue to lead from the front. This is a great example of how choosing not to check the Air force approved boxes can bite you. While I don't agree with the system completely, it is the world we live in for now. (while working to change it). Good luck, enjoy school, and get back to the fight soon.

Ummmm... got it; so box checking at specific gates to attain a completely useless AAD at taxpayer expense equates directly to getting promoted early and O-6! It also seems that you equate the Masters degree from IDE to being even more useless than the ERAU Masters he got in the box checking process. If you say that being selected for IDE guarantees both a Masters and PME then how do you justify the all but unwritten requirement to have both completed before then? You said yourself that in order to progress past O-5 you need both done prior to IDE. In times of massive budget cuts, sequestration and furloughs I'd love to hear from the perspective of someone more senior than 95% of the guys in this forum and sitting up at the Pentagon how you justify that expense for the sake of box checking? Serious question! There are very few people on here that have heard a valid reason from AF leaders for us to continue funding diploma factories. Do you have one? In fact I'd venture to say that there is a vast majority of folks here who got the same talk from their bosses that I did, "I know it is stupid, but just knock it out to check the box so you don't close any doors." I've heard the "educated force" reasoning countless times from GOs, but I can say without exaggerating at all that my AAD "education" was probably the equivalent of high school level academics. The really scary thing is that even though you will get a large percent of officers ranging from O-1 to even O-10 (reference Gen Jumper) including almost every Sq CC and OG CC I've had in the past 10 yrs who thinks this is either a useless requirement or a distraction, but when Maul complains about it your reaction to him not falling in line is, "...do us all a favor and leave at the 20 year mark. Thanks for your service." One of my past DOs is an O-7 now and a few months ago he was telling me about how much of a colossal waste of time and money he thinks AADs from online schools for box checking are for our officer corps... should he have done us all a favor and left at the 20 year mark too???

Don't get me wrong, but that was the kind of comment that virtually everyone on here would have cheered until a senior leader showed up. I pretty much agree that that attitude is bad overall, but I find it funny that a bunch of people who three days ago were super cynical are now jumping all over themselves to appear in agreement with a guy who claims to be in a high level position. I also believe in allowing people to change their minds when presented with a logical "other side" of the coin. I'm not saying Chang and Liquid aren't the real deal, and I find the info they're putting out there very, to be redundant, informative. I do remember though, that this is an Internet forum. I'll take the nuggets they're giving us, apply some common sense, pass it through my AF propaganda filter, and try to then make educated decisions based on what passes those litmus tests. Some things they're saying pass muster, some seem like leadership that still just doesn't want to admit just how bad their predecessors let the situation get. I hope everything their saying is on target. I don't believe they'd lie to us. Not intentionally anyway.

You're correct in that The Constitution can be amended by the appropriate process--our Founding Fathers were wise enough to know that things they could not foresee would come up and would need to be dealt it with. However, when was the last time a gun control measure was seriously offered up or 'debated' as a Constituional Amendment?? I'm not aware of this happening, not in recent times...and really not ever (tried to find one and couldn't, but by all means correct me again if I am mistaken). Dems and Republicans LOVE to circumvent The Constitution on a whole range of issues...once in a while they're struct down, most times they are not, hence why we have all these damn Federal and State laws to begin with. So again, if she or anybody else wants to truly 'debate' the issue of the 2nd Amendment or anything else in The Constitution then I am all for having that debate...just don't fool yourself to what is actually going on.

Another "leader" telling us to have good attitudes and keep the faith. Cute.

It's not supposed to be up for debate, regardless of how her constituents feel about the 2nd Amendment. I respect her military service and appreciate that she stands on her principles...but she, like almost all politicians, have selective outrage and are hypocrites. Just realize that they don't truly care about your Liberty when it's in conflict with their ideology.

Liquid, Your comments are appreciated. If you'd like to see the spreadsheet point system, I'd love to send you an example via PM. Truly disturbing stuff. I'm the fortunate recipient of a school select designation w/ no AAD/BAC+ at one command followed by 3849: Not Recommended x 2 Years at my next assignment. AAD/PME/Initial Qual/Requal/IPUG value = what you put into it. I double turned classes for my ERAU AAD recently and got almost nothing out of it personally. I got more out of my Formal Flying Training programs which I felt were more important. Now that I'm AAD/PME box checked, I have difficulty even wanting to stay (besides the obvious financial benefit), but every day feels like a prison sentence. Probably because I'm deployed again doing something I don't enjoy (non-flying) surrounded by concertina wire, rarely leave the compound, and work out a lot. I suppose many struggle with the transition from tactical (flying) to Ops/Strat (staffs), but I'm pretty sure I didn't try so hard at Formal Flying programs IOT get a DG w/ the end goal of being a glorified secretary w/ MS Office skills and a tactical background. It seems it's unlikely the top 20% will stay too far past the bare minimum when they've been metaphorically a** raped (SAPR reference) with expectations/time away from family leading to lesser qualified individuals (those barely in the top 50% who checked boxes and hardly worked resulting in higher QOL and more reason to stay) taking Sq and OG commands. I think this is the fear of many in the forum when the guy at the top of the bottom 50% might be a great leader. Those who self identify via PME non completion (Yeah, this just screams "screw you promotion board") and marks a clean kill. Now that I'm AAD complete, it seems like it should seem easier looking back, but I can still testify it was awful and easily the worst year of my life (due to the expectation laid out by leadership and my personal choice to put it off until I was being threatened to be not recommended on my third IDE look, and double turning classes while playing DO). I could have made it less painful by doing it earlier in my career, but as I was taking all my classes at ERAU w/ a bunch of Lts/Early Captains I couldn't help but thinking their efforts were at the expense of some level of tactical expertise and whatever practical application of the AAD towards the higher level knowledge required for staffs and joint environments won't be retained by a Lt. Probably should happen as we prep officers for these staffs. We should set up schools to develop these leaders with the skills required for these environments.....Oh wait...... Long live Gen Jumper's recommendations although they will never truly be in effect since DPs are given by the SR and SRs will use metrics easily identified by .xlsx products like the one I mentioned above. Maybe I'm wrong. Just my 2 cents.

This I don't get. I had an IP who actually said he wanted to get out and "do the 9-5 job thing"... He said this because he went from ROTC/Academy straight to UPT, straight to AETC. I've worked the civilian "9-5", and it ######ing sucks... I think we as humans are innately prone to the Grass-is-Greener mentality, and, in the case of AF aviators, we may need to remind ourselves that, in the scope of all existing jobs available, we have a good thing going for us.

Me too...ended it when I was given the chance.

Ok, so you acknowledge that it's game on for a brave new world as long as everyone consents - DoD benefits for multiple wives, kids, TRICARE, etc., same for Social Security, tax filings, the whole bit. Kudos for consistency of the standard. You assume the current, primary wife, much less any auxilary ones would be allowed to wear any...(which seems to be the stereotype given to anyone who finds homosexuality as wrong. ((Not looking to justify my beliefs or views here. I have my beliefs, my standards, my view on what is right and wrong. I've changed some over the years, but for now, this issue is as wrong as two boys fcuking...))

I'm against gay marriage (Wow! Did he just say that?). That should have been pretty obvious already smart guy. The argument against gay marriage has been very well documented and I'm not going to regurgitate it for your understanding. You simply choose not to listen and fall back on the common liberal tactic of belittling your opponents discussion: "playbook has been whittled away." Now we are stuck with the illegitimate decisions of the SCOTUS Prop 8/DOMA ruling. You can read Scalia's dissent for a real decision. I am not the one that brought up bestiality and inanimate objects into this discussion but thanks for putting those words in my mouth. I was specifically discussing polygamy and incest which involves consenting adults. And YES, I will look at you same sex marriage advocates and homosexuals in the eye and ask "Why is it okay for you to marry another person of the same sex yet not allow someone who loves multiple people to wed?" Again, if loving someone else is the sole criterion for marriage then how can you dare deny others that same right? Perhaps you belittle that argument because you realize it reveals your hypocrisy regarding civil rights. What it boils down to is that we draw a different line in the sand between right (male and female; the natural law of mankind that led to the creation of you and me) and wrong (everything else). The sad thing is that you are willing to fudge that gray area and deny the "rights" of other people's sexual desires yet insist that we are the ones that are close-minded. At least Vertigo is consistent and not a hypocrite. Finally, for your edification regarding the flawed 50% divorce stat: https://psychcentral....-divorce/all/1/

Nice writing, but flawed logic. The argument has been about "marriage equality before the law." Denying agreed upon relationship contracts between/among any consenting adults is by definition discrimination. Rights/benefits/recognition for any such arrangement should be forthcoming according to the argument just made and won before the Supreme Court. Polygamists are already making this argument. Successfully with this ruling, I'd say. I can't wait to see what other arrangements come out of the woodwork. People think up the craziest sh1t...

Grandfather = "Greatest Generation. I'm good...

You might not consider yourself an idiot but you are. If you believe it is a phobia for a man to be uncomfortable around another man who is hyper-effemenite then you are pretty far down the road of idiocy.

Baseops is educational as well as featuring breasts...

Based on the thread title, I thought this thread was about Eagle pilots.

As a straight dude and an adult, I would have no problem sharing a room with a gay dude. If something he was doing made me uncomfortable, I would tell him and politely ask him to stop. After that, it goes up the chain just like any other work conflict.

This getting a worthless AAD (I got mine a long time ago) just because it proves you care would be much better If you could substitute the useless AAD for some more worthwhile skill like making balloon animals. Think of the fun. "Captain, I don't see how you are ever going to be worthy to promote to Major. That looks nothing like godzilla!"

Pretty sure actually spending time in a federal prison is not untouchable.

Man, I knew it was cold in space, but this thread is approaching absolute zero as well!