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First off... -852 lame points for "liking" your own post! Your Grand Forks suggestion has to be one of your stupidest suggestions to date and shows that you have zero clue as to how a pilot thinks. You take a guy who probably wanted to be a pilot since he was 5 yrs old, worked his ass off through high school to pay for flying lessons to get his PPL (that would be private pilots license for you A1 number crunchers), spent a year of his life working his ass off in UPT with the hopes of selecting the aircraft that he wants to fly (signing a 10 yr ADSC to fly it), spends anywhere from 200-300 days a year on the road because geniuses like you can tell him his Squadron is overmanned with pilots and even cuts those manning numbers... and when the guys tell you that the theory vs the reality of your numbers is wrong... "Well you could just move to Grand Forks and fly a remote control airplane instead!" Then you are actually clueless enough to say that 1) these guys think this is a good deal and 2) there are people in this or any community that are lining up to take your offer... and should be grateful with hat in hand for your fantastic opportunity. My complaint about the bonus is that the attitude of number crunching non-pilot ass hats in San Antonio and DC is that if we throw money at the problem it will go away and you base this thought on irrelevant "historical data" without for even a second looking more than one assignment cycle into the future or looking at external factors. This mindset in the corporate world would get all of you fired on a daily basis... including the GOs! As far as me being 100% about myself and being jaded? Tell me something... How is the view from the cheap seats??? You come on here and manage to dodge every question about stats that come your way from anywhere other than your soda straw A1 fabricated numbers about Squadrons and manning... you glorify the insane "advancement by box checking" process (one that you are clearly a product of) while ignoring the 99% of those on here saying that there is no actual leadership in leadership positions and tell anyone who disagrees with your ideas that they should do us all a favor and just quit... you look at the VSP disaster from a few years ago and the conclusion you draw is that the AF should have just come out and admitted they screwed up, but completely ignore the fact and reality that the overwhelming majority of all who applied for VSP were pilots! Yeah, I'll bet traffic in DC is a real bitch and the Metro in the summer gets pretty uncomfortable on your way home to the wife and kids. Let me suggest this to you... for the enlightenment of all of us jaded pilots who only care about themselves, why don't you tell all of us your background? Let us know how well you relate to us and that you share our experiences over the past 11+ years since 9/11. Unless those experiences involve spending 200+ days on the road every year in some shit hole that ends in Stan or in Iraq, endless stories from buds hoping their leave doesn't get cancelled so they can go visit their kids who just moved 1000 miles away with the ex-wife because we are "surging" again, or the feeling of nausea every time the phone rings and the caller ID says "######ing Sq Scheduler" because you know you'll need to explain to your kids why Daddy has to go away again... If you can't relate to that then before you tell someone who has lived that for the past 11+ years they should remember "service before self" maybe you should take a step back and take the opportunity to just STFU! Guess what Chang... we aren't all warriors no matter what they told you during what sounds like years that you spent sitting in Polifka or at some Commanders Call on a Staff tour! Every last one of us here in this forum is proud to put on a uniform each day to serve our country and is more than willing to strap into the seat and crank the engines at a moments notice... no matter what is waiting to greet us at our destination! We will miss the birthdays, anniversaries, Holidays, baseball games, dance recitals and first steps because that is what we signed up to do. What we don't need is some ass clown who sits in a cubical and runs selective numbers to tell us that, even though he doesn't do it himself, that we should be "grateful" to be doing it and if we don't like it we can just leave. So before you give anyone else the lecture on here about being selfish and jaded, please let us all know how many combat hours you have logged and how many years you sat at the scheduling desk at McChord, McConnell or Shaw during our great period of "overmanned pilots"! Otherwise... go troll somewhere else.

Copy shot. All this looks legit. You're right...Big Blue needs to be VERY careful when cutting these guys at the 16-18 year point, as us younger pups are watching. While the cuts last time didn't really concern the 11F community, you can be CERTAIN that the 11F guys were watching. That, plus the VSP debacle, was a HUGE negative influence on retention. So, up to this point, I was tracking. Then I read this: YGBSM. It's increasingly obvious that the USAF cares more about the numbers than what really matters: COMBAT CAPABILITY. It's already getting worse because of what happened in the last 2 years of O-4 boards: AADs were critical to a DP/Maj select, and the USAF cared more about AAD & SOS DG than it cared about a W-prefix when it came to school selection. The writing is on the wall, and I know dudes all over the CAF who were watching. So riddle me this: ARE WE MORE COMBAT READY NOW THAN WE WERE 5 YEARS AGO? Start the RIFs on the 16-18 year dudes because they don't "publicly declare their value to the Air Force" (which everyone should read as "do AAD, PME, exec"), and you'll reap what you sow. Here's the result: 11Fs WITH GREAT SURFs WHO CAN'T FIGHT THEIR WAY OUT OF THE WET PAPER BAG THAT WAS THE LAST DECADE'S THREAT. If this is what the USAF wants, fine. Again, they're going to reap what they sow. I, for one (actually, for the majority), am PRAYING we don't find ourselves in a major theater conflict with one of our NEAR PEER adversaries in the upcoming years. "But how did we lose 80% of package AAYA today, fellow generals? We're the USAF!" "It's simple, sir, wrapping our jets in useless AADs and quoting PME readings simply didn't keep our jets from blowing up." "IMPOSSIBLE! A1 told me our pilot manning was right and that we're the most educated USAF in the world!" Loyalty is a 2-way street, GC. If you're anywhere near a HAF/MAJCOM A1 shop, I'm very very worried.

LOL

What some factions of our society are unwilling to acknowledge is that there are clearly defined areas of right and wrong. Just because something feels good, is the path of least resistance or is just what someone wants to do no matter what doesn’t make it right. They can still do it if they want, but we as a society don’t have to support them. If you are a Christian (which I am), you know the bible says same-sex unions are wrong. If you’re not, then just look at nature. Same sex stuff isn’t happening with animals. Our reproductive process doesn’t support same sex. It's an unnatural aberration. We feel disgusted when we see two guys kiss because it’s unnatural and our normal instincts to be attracted to a woman are in control. So, there’s obviously some genetic or mental issue going on with a gay person to give them this same-sex attraction. They don’t just decide to deviate from the natural norm on a whim. For whatever reason, God made them that way and it’s a cross they have to bear. I see them as no different than someone with an alcohol or drug addiction. The main difference is that some people can justify accepting gays and all that comes with it because it’s about something socially acceptable like love instead of addiction. There’s no one standing up fighting for addicts rights because most of society has acknowledged that their behavior is destructive and they have a problem they need help with. A larger portion of our society has acknowledged the same thing about same sex unions but you wouldn’t know it thanks to political correctness and the media. The mere suggestion that there might actually be something physically, genetically or mentally wrong to cause same sex attraction makes those on the other side of the argument lose their minds. Forget suggesting that someone in that situation might be helped to move past it or that they may just have to deal with a life of abstinence (like recovering addicts). Oh no! Everyone deserves love, right? If two men or two women want to be a couple, live together, etc. I could care less. Just like I really don’t care if someone wants to drink themselves to death or stick a needle in their arm every day. It’s their right to choose to do that. However, they shouldn’t expect society to pat them on the back and tell them we all think what they’re doing is just fine by allowing official marriages, adoptions, tax filing status, etc. No innocent child should be thrown into a situation via adoption where they are denied a father or mother because of the selfish desires of two misguided people. I don’t care if they serve in our military but, I will have a problem with some guy being a “dependent” of another male service member because they think they’re married. Do we give addicts tax breaks because they can’t work or encourage their destructive, unnatural behavior? No. We offer them help to stop and support and encourage them to turn their lives around. There’s no way this situation can be compared to racial integration. There’s nothing unnatural or deviant about someone’s heritage or race. Just because the gay movement, Hollywood and a bunch of feel-good liberal politicians are trying to force this issue into the mainstream and make everyone believe it’s the “new normal” doesn’t mean it has to be so.

- Gratuitous, graphic violence in movies and video games - Diminishing respect for authority and elders - Over-sexualization in all forms of media - Increasing dependence on government (evidenced by increases in welfare/entitlement spending) - Entitlement mentality of younger generations - Acceptance of homosexuality as moral behavior - Redefinition of gender and family roles C'mon dude, do you live under a rock? Times, they are a changin'. The trend is not a positive one. Ah, but you failed to highlight the most important word in my post: eventually. I still have faith in our way of life, but we have problems that, if left uncorrected, will cause an eventual breakdown.

Guys, attack the arguments he makes, not this person everyone is inventing. He makes some very good points, but then fails to back up some other hard to believe points. You don't impress anyone by picking some Internet fight. Just saying... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Wow, I thought FSA was designed to cover the costs of visiting one's dependents. The more you know...sounds like time to get rid of that shit. I'm all for getting rid of the dependent BAH rate. It is piss-poor social engineering at best.

Suggest you check your facts bro.

The point is that the creators of this country recognized the inherent virtue of Judeo-Christian teaching/principles and that piety, religion, and objective morality are intimately connected to the well being of the state and enforcement of civil justice. To think that is not what happened absolutely amazes me. Remember this? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Admittedly, the author of this article basically nails my entire philosophy better than I can spew it: https://publiushuldah...-or-congress-2/ Ultimately you have to ask yourself a simple question as a citizen of this country: Do our rights descend from God or are they derived from man? If it is the latter then you have chosen to be subjected to the will of someone else's moral compass (at least five federal judges, or whatever "rights" Vertigo or joe1234 decided should be enforced when they woke up in the morning). You will always be answerable to the State and the popular opinion of the day.

My disappointment is not with law or governance, after all, laws should reflect our society's values. Gay marriage is now legal in many states because a majority of Americans now support gay marriage. I am concerned about our nation's rapid shift away from traditional moral values and the effect that will have on our country. The percentage of citizens who look to the bible (or any religion) to inform them of what's right and wrong has been on the decline for many years. Moral relativism and postmodernism has taken its place. Notions of right and wrong have been replaced with "indifference" and "live and let live". When people stop caring about what's right and wrong, chaos and anarchy eventually ensue. We are Rome.

GC, Someone else mentioned here that serving in the USAF must now be treated simply as a JOB. It is so sad, because the vast majority of every single one of us joined for such patriotic reasons that had little to do with self-serving interests. To this day, aside from being a number and being treated as such, I take exceptional pride in wearing the uniform and serving my country. Unfortunately, like many, that obligation is towards my country and not my employer. At a time where so few a expected to do so much, you would think leadership would do more than treat everyone as a number, and try to fix their problems by throwing some peanuts and cash at them when morale or retention is poor. Leadership is so much more than that at every fundamental level. I have had an amazing time doing things I am so proud of in the USAF. I've been a fighter pilot, a special ops pilot and have had the honor of leading at a time of war. I've saved guys and been responsible for executing missions of great proportion. I'm proud of my accomplishments and what I have done for my country. More likely than not, I will continue to serve my country in some manner, but it will not be in the USAF. This is a 99% certainty even though my boxes are checked and the future is bright. Sadly, this is the opinion of most folks in my position. At a time when resources are tight, the USAF really needs to keep the best and brightest. Somehow the USAF is able to recruit some of the best this country has to offer. I've had the privilege of working beside them. Why do we treat them in this manner while they rush the exits? The glut that you will be left with is not the force that you need while operating at the lowest manning levels since force inception. I am cautiously optimistic that Gen Welsh will continue to work things in the right direction; my fear is that it is too late to right this ship. The saga of this ACP are not helping things either, and it likely will have zero impact on -11F take rates. We'll see soon.

GC This is one pilots point of view. Tracking that we should remove emotion from this discussion, but in that statement I feel we're missing something valuable. Real leaders understand that we are never dealing with individuals just evaluating this decision from a financial point of view or in black and white, even if the bean counters are just looking at money and end strength numbers. I value realism and appreciate the bean counting realism you're offering, but it's a little out of touch. If the bonus isn't the place to show appreciation for a pilot's service, then please use this pilot's forum to find the words it's missing. For example you touched on it with keep the faith, but then erased it with the thank you for your service pilot pansy, that sucked and I know you're better than that. Our inspiration still lies in the warrior ideal, and we need leaders than can inspire that image in our folks, so they can go out and confidently prosecute the mission, bonus or no. This talk about the mission and the people, and finding the right balance of numbers that the nation needs to meet emerging threats from a statistical point of view misses a lot of the quirks that can't be quantified. IMO, we've created entire staffs to work issues that would not exist if the Air Force could inspire it's people by giving them an image of a future that they could project themselves on without cringing, gah. The bonus, why does it exist? The answer to that question seems innumerable but ultimately it's because A1 won't start with the people, its most valuable resource. A1 is starting with numbers to fix the numbers. Start with the people, and you'll end with the mission complete and we'll be thankful all the while. If the retention numbers go up for 11Xs it might also be because Welsh is inspiring, and the bonus is a sideshow that will catch a few on the fencers, but for the most part it's just extra. Check out Steve Jobs here talking about the future of Apple and its people, start at 7:40. It's a message you began to touch on, stick around till at least 12:55. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM4tAXacpVE It's all about end strength numbers and money if I hear it correctly, we'll address the problems as they arise. My opinion is that the Air Force has failed to inspire it's people beyond the initial sacrifice without incentive, and that's a problem the Air Force cannot address with more money at ANY time, hell attempting to fix it with money is part of the problem! If leaders could inspire us all with their words and offer the quality of life that would make the word of the day gratitude there would be no bonus. However, offering a cynical remedy for the disease of cynicism isn't much of a cure. There is a more positive way, just get creative. A1 doesn't have the cajones to get rid of the bonus, that's how cynical A1 is. That 225K$ could be spent on a tremendous educational experience sending every 11X through a great school at the end of their commitment and make the covenant more valuable, while emphasizing the first 10-12 years as a chance to develop tactical expertise without that dreaded AAD distraction. It would be a transition. It would give Airmen a break at a breaking point and invest that same money in a less cynical way. It has the added benefit of getting our message and real leadership experience out in the university setting, attracting and inspiring even more future leaders. It would give folks the chance to add value to their cranium before they go back to ops or staff. That would be a positive message and a score for leadership and the development of critical thinkers. A hell of a sell to congress and a great message to young people wanting to have more options when they don't have the pleasure of serving any more. Thinkers and doers sir, that's what we need, the combo of art and science--develop it. We're worth something more thoughtful. The take it or leave it, there's the door mantra is so cynical, we want leaders that are worth our service and motivate us to follow. The decision to stay or go for a pilot whose commitment is up represents a turning point not only for the individual, but for the entire Air Force that will exist with each individuals continued service, or without it. We mercs will try and evaluate this decision with heartfelt gratitude and more grace than Big blue evaluates us. We'll try and ignore the 3 AM wakeups with tremendous anxiety and myriad images of an uncertain future, the snapshot of the kids and spouses faces that run through our minds with every deployment and just make it a financial decision. All I'm saying is that if you've come to preach to Nineveh, I hope you've spent time sounding the deep in the belly of the whale.

I totally agree that he's saying some stuff that just doesn't add up. I'm just saying don't engage him on that level. Is he demonstrating horrible leadership? Yep, but this is the Internet, take that with a grain of salt. A lot is left open to interpretation here, and people don't always come across they mean to. I'm not defending him, just saying don't engage on the personal crap. You have to admit that even with some of the garbage he's throwing up, he's also giving a couple nuggets of solid info even if it's hard to hear. Take it for what it's worth.

You don't need to read the foreign clearance guide to see that....just go through customs anywhere in the country (but especially at the Deid) and you'll experience it firsthand.

These people aren't carrying to protect themselves. They're carrying so they can get attention and poke the bear.

We sometimes throw barf bags out. Cops get airsick a lot.

IIRC we also had a 99 year lease at balad which didn't end favorably. But maybe my memory is going out from breathing the burn pits; it certainly can't be the bourbon.

Good god this will wreak havoc on determining BAH entitlements and other "dependent" related entitlements. I've not seen any changes to the entitlement REGs but no DOD is going to have a tough time--an you thought the REGs were tough to interpret now. I say we just get rid of any Dependent driven pay entitlements. Give one BAH rate and do away with the With or Without Dependent rates. Don't even get me started on FSA. Dig up history on the purpose of FSA(below) and I don't see how two dudes married to each other should qualify (the other dude can certainly handle yard or automotive work--you would hope). I guess the two dudes could adopt a child and that might fit FSA better. I don't really agree with Mil-to-Mil couples with no kids getting FSA either, but they do. This is just going to get messy and I'm not looking forward to the crap finance is about to be fed. Finance is going to need a legal read from JA on every "marriage" certificate once DOD determines what the hell they are going to do with entitlements. FSA: In 1963, Congress established the family separation allowance to help offset the additional expenses that may be incurred by the dependents of servicemembers who are away from their permanent duty station for more than 30 consecutive days. Additional expenses may include the costs associated with home repairs, automobile maintenance, and childcare that could have been performed by the deployed service member. https://www.gao.gov/assets/250/243126.pdf

"Multiple minor traffic infractions without allegations of other criminal conduct would not be an issue under the Criminal Conduct criterion. However, they can be considered under the Personal Conduct criterion along with any other dishonest, unreliable, or rule-breaking behavior." Considering the other actions of this individual, it could have an impact on his clearance especially when it appears he is actively pursuing them as shown in that video. I just hope he captures it on video when he's tazed!

GC (can’t bring myself to call you general, given that from your posts I figure you’re at best an O-5) . . . To bring us back from the thread derail (aren’t we supposed to be taking ACP/ARP?), here are numbers questions (you purport to be a numbers guy—take the emotion out of it, blah, blah, blah) that you have thus far failed to answer: - Given the numbers of pilots the Majors are projected to hire over the next several years, the small number of mil pilots available to meet that demand, and the shrinking number of civilian pilots that’ll be willing to shell out the cash needed just to get the required ATP for a regional job . . . how are your predictions of record retention numerically supportable? - How in any way does your discussion of there being a “glut” of 16-18 yrs of service officers (’95-’97 commissioning groups) square with the fact that these same year groups all part of the “pilot bathtub”—read under-production—of pilots in the late 90s? Do you have any numbers to support your claim of a glut? - Specifically, why are there more 11Fs than 11Ms with 18 years commissioned service right now, if there’s such a glut of 11Ms? - How were the 11H and 11S communities—which were manned at 76% or less (10%+ worse off than the 11F community) about 1.5 years ago—able to magically fix themselves so quickly? - If the above two communities have gotten healthy all of a sudden, why is Big Blue not using them as models for rebuilding the 11F force? - Given the glut of rated bodies on AD, what are the projected numbers of pilots that would seek to Palace Chase . . . and as asked before why are they not being encouraged to do so? - Will 40% and below ARP take rates (such as were seen in the late 90s—last big hiring spree) be sustainable when we see them again in the next few years? If you can provide rational, numerically supportable arguments for any of the above, you might have some credibility. Otherwise, I’d recommend that those on this forum dismiss you as a propagandist that is unfortunately feeding at best incomplete info to senior leaders who are thus making misguided personnel decisions that are degrading our force.

True. So why is it so hard for leadership to be honest with us? I have significantly more respect for dudes who shoot straight rather than try to church shit up all the time. "Hey guys, Cannon is a fantastic place!" "Nope, we didn't pull any shady shit with the VSP, you guys misunderstood our intent". "We chose Cannon for the great weather and fantastic range space, shady ass politics and money grubbing had nothing to do with it." Ugh, the list goes on. As someone mentioned before, what happened to the integrity that I was brought up on? cuz it sure as shit doesn't exist in the political side of the Air Force.

So 80% is synonymous with "guarantee"? I'm actually starting to believe that you're from AFPC.

Reductio ad absurdum arguments. The fact that thousands of creatures eat their own species does not give humans the moral ground to engage in cannibalism. Taking moral cues from the animal kingdom is absurd. That goes for both sides of the debate.

Does anyone know where I can get a blowjob from a chick in Vegas?

Ha, this reminds me if the time a C-130 LM made a HALO jumper take his bag of shit with him when he jumped. The idiot did it, lost positive control of cargo and it landed on Delta Ramp at TCM right in front of a MX crew towing a C-17. CP almost sent an OPREP to 18 AF before Safety stepped in and said we could probably handle this in house. True story.

Let the troll die...

You make my point. The numbers are skewed. If A1 really wants to have a clue, you all need to take a good hard look at how you derive your data. Get out and talk to the people at the Sq level. You're proving to all of us that you can't really get a bead on this from an office in the Pentagon. The Capts and Majs can see the issue because they're in the thick of it. I get that they don't have the "big picture" but if you'd tap in to their viewpoint a little more, you might be surprised at the way things start to look.

Rusty, you complain so much about the C-17 tempo, but then I offer the Grand Forks suggestion to moderate your family life, and you complain about that. You can't seem to believe anyone would enjoy UAVs, when many people appreciate the change of pace. You're not happy about the $0 bonus, but if you were included, I suspect you would complain about your bonus not being as much as a fighter pilot. If you were to get the fighter bonus, you would complain that you shouldn't have to sign a 9 year contract in which the Air Force has the upper hand. I'll concede some of the points on this forum about "service" only going so far, but Rusty, you seem to be so jaded that you are 100% in it for yourself, and that is very, very toxic.

They most certainly should be considered. They would know the unit's mission, which is exactly what you need a Sq/CC to know. Let's not forget that a squadron is still, by its very definition, a TACTICAL level unit. Who better to lead a tactical unit than some one who is an expert at the tactical level? Heck, you can make the argument that even a Wing operates mostly at the tactical level. Being an exec, or working a staff position does not prepare you for being a leader. The Sq/CCs should be groomed from the leaders in the squadrons-for example, the flight commanders. That is where CGOs should be gaining the experience for commands-leading their flights, mentoring their subordinates, and accomplishing the flight's mission, not from being an exec pushing paperwork around. Our leaders need to lead-they have a staff to execute their vision. You are right in saying we need both kinds of officers. Staff officers are good at just that-being staff, and handling the details of the plan set forth by the commander. Staff officers are important in the process, but we need officers who can lead-who sets the vision for the unit, focuses on the big picture, motivates and mentors their subordinates, and ultimately, leads the unit in accomplishing their mission. Those line pilots without staff experience would not necessarily have a one dimensional approach to problem solving. After all, they would have an AAD. This brings us back to the AAD discussion-as it is right now, the system encourages box checking, which leads to officers pursuing the easier degree they can, and not the degrees that would benefit their ability to think critically and use that outside view to improve how we as an Air Force operate. Its this reason that I believe AADs are held in such high regard (critical thinking ability), but most guys I talk to take the easiest program without a thesis requirement they can find, which ultimately defeats the purpose of encouraging post graduate studies for officers.

Champ Kind, Your leadership is in charge of ensuring attached guys fly an equitable amount of hours. As an O-3 IP in the squadron, your job is to fill in the occasional slack and trust your bosses to worry about any attached issues. If you are frustrated by this, why not approach your DO with your grievances?

I think what we need to see in order to fix the issue is something beyond the traditional separation pay program. By the regs it says that twice deferred o4s should only be not continued for extreme circumstances. If the severance pay was calculated based on a good faith estimate of future earnings I think we would be making a positive step. I have 9 years in and if the Air Force gives me a pink slip at the current separation pay rate then fine. But if I am at 16 years in and twice passed over to o5 and unless I have a DUI then it is a different story. We have no problem with enticing people to leave. Heck just the thought of going to cannon AFB has enticed a shit ton of u28 folks to drop their papers...most all of them at that 11 year point. If you get to 16 and the Air Force needs to get rid of you that badly a multiplier should be added to the formula representative of sunk costs. If the Air Force would have separated the 157 a couple years ago and handed them double their separation pay you would have at least preserved the thought that at least if big blue has to screw you through ineptitude they will at least treat you better than a game changing scenario like the fall of communism. Again general it's up to you and your comrades to decide whether or not excellence in all we do is a recruiting brainwash or truly the hallmark of our organization. Truly excellent organizations don't cut people at 16 years but when they do they do it with more class than we have.

Blame, BLAME FEs? Seriously? I think it's obvious had an FE been onboard, this potentially fatal incident simply would not have been allowed to happen.

But yet you think it's a good idea to show people the door at 18 years. How can you not see how that will go down as being a disaster in the long run?

I don't think it's the same GC. The last VSP was released with no regard to what AFSCs were eligible. I believe people were pissed at that scenario because for an institution that holds integrity as one of its core value and preaches it every day of the week it was guilty of a force separation process that the masses assess as lacking in integrity. There is also a real problem with regard to feedback in this organization. People so afraid of a guy with eagles on his collar that they will feed and brief inaccurate bull rather than confront the problem outright. Even if the a1 responsible for the last vsp fiasco would have attempted to get the pulse of the people they all probably would have lied because they mistrust the institution... That's where we could use some help... Mistrust.

Funny thing about the bonus -- 'back in the day' options included (with an 8 year UPT commitment) the 'big bonus' that was 25k per year to 20 years aviation service (half up front if you wanted it) - meaning 11 years of bonus money. Somewhat similar to the 11F bonus this year except it was for everyone - and more money. Or you could sign a 5 year at 25k per. Then after 5 years take another 5 year for 25k (shit you negative). We also had the 'boots on the ramp' policy with respect to the bonus. And we even had years with a bonus to 25 years aviation service - guys would get off the 'big bonus' to 20 and then get another 25k for 5 (that might have actually only been 15k for 5 when going from 20 to 25 years aviation service, I forget). A couple years back when the 25k for 5 first showed up the 'rumor' was the AF would offer another bonus when the first 5 year only bonus guys were taking a pay cut. Thought being that squadron commanders would be making less money than the ADOs and the AF wouldn't have that... we've seen how that has played out. And bonus money doesn't solve everything - it really doesn't - ever hear of stop loss, rated recall, etc? All things we have seen in just the last 10 years. Been lots of talk about how the bonus isn't really a bonus anymore, but a part of the compensation plan for pilots -- for a long time (minus no adjustments for inflation) it was getting better with more options. Then the 5 year only plan kicked in. But even that hasn't been around all that long. Majority of O-6s around today, and all the GOs, grew up on the AF paying them significantly more money (in the order of 125k+) than what we are paying guys today. And they wonder why they look like hypocrites when discussing the 'bonus'? Not too long ago, when you crunched the numbers (I'm sure there's still spreadsheets you can find already made), it made more financial sense to get out at 19 years and go airlines (even Southwest) than stay to 20. Don't be surprised when that becomes a reality again. Here's a thought - if we are so overmanned - kill the 10 year UPT commitment - heck, drop it back to 5 or 6 years instead of 8 (make it retroactive). Our AB to idle and spreedbrakes, bang-bang guidance pilot manning policies over the last 15 years is quite honestly, disheartening. And we wonder why we can't keep talent? When the BS gets to be too much guys have and will continue to vote with their feet. Point being -- as evident by the discussion on these boards -- A1 doesn't know their ass from a f-ing helmet bag when dealing with pilot manning -- never has, probably never will. Serve because you want to (lots of reasons, different for everyone). Your reasons (I know mine are) for continuing to serve are probably different than what they were when you first got in. That's ok. Do a kick ass job taking care of the mission because that's what you're supposed to do and when a new chapter in your life opens up - don't forget to invite the bros to your fini-flight so we can drink your free beer and booze and say thank you. If you did it right, the bros and your family will know, and who cares about anything else than that when discussing a military career? e

GC/ Liquid, As a test bed, how about pushing through automatic approvals for Palace Chase to help reduce the glut of pilots? I hear that most of those application get rejected at the Pentagon. Most guys I know are waiting until they are inside of 1 year to even think about applying. There are many pilot waiting in line. Go back and check the statistics from the VSP fiasco- the numbers are telling. Of more than 15 guys in my squadron (at the time) eligible for the VSP, every single person EXCEPT for me applied! I had this conversation with the Sq/CC; he was in disbelief that so many folks wanted out ASAP and I had to explain some of the reasons why. I was waiting for a memo to be signed to allow me to apply for another program; apparently there was no chance of that MFR getting signed so in hindsight, I would've applied for VSP as well. The overall VSP program stats were alarming. The vast majority of applicants, well over 69%, were pilots. All were lied to and damn near all were disapproved. If retention is so great, open the door for Palace Chase. Offer another VSP and use integrity this time. I'm afraid that your perception of retention would be tested to the limit; while many guys may stay in because of the economy, the amount that will leave will be staggering. Time will tell. I have no vested interest if folks stay or leave but I am happy to wager a cold beer on it for entertainment value.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 dictates that a "stubborn and rebellious" son be executed by his own friends and family. Exodus 22:18 commands that a "sorceress" not be permitted to live. Is everybody who ignores these laws (or considers them absurd/irrelevant) "spineless" as well? If nobody's moral compass ever strayed in the past 4000 years, that's exactly the legal/social environment we'd be in right now.

Because leaders should actually care about the people they lead?????????? I haven't gone to SOS yet, but I do remember being hammered over and over again in 4 years of ROTC that the number one priority of a leader is to take care of his people. However, it looks to me like you found the easiest route to fix your problems, bribe people to stay, instead of actually addressing the problems.

I'd follow to hell and back with you... well said!! GC take notes...

Embraces? Nah, more like indifference. I live my life, I let them live theirs as long as it's consensual and between adults. I'm sorry you feel your moral code dictates that you intervene in other people's lives to the point they have to adhere to your standards. It's sad you were born in this nation (I assume) yet Freedom and Liberty is a concept that is foreign to you

I'm sorry I'm intolerant of your intolerance.

Ugh, the good General clearly said his advice was for a dude he thought wanted to compete for O-6. I think at that level an AAD is actually a good idea, obviously the box-check type degrees are dumb as shit and we can probably re-work the PME system to provide better education and a better built in AAD. He pointed out that Maul's leadership gave him shitty gouge and were being the very assholes we hate for pimping the AAD when Maul didn't need it just yet(at least for the reasons they were providing) but that in the end him grunting through that worthless degree he is actually better setup for promotion. All that crap said, I think most of us are cranky about the AAD requirement not because we want to be O-6 or higher, it's because we want to serve out to 20 and the only way to ensure that is to make O-5 or roll the dice with continuation. This all comes back to how much room is there in the AF for terminal Majs and LtCols that still fly? In the end, let's stop being so damn emotional about this, is the current system perfect? Not in a million years, so now that we have some actual senior dudes hanging out (gonna press the I believe button) why not offer up a better way of doing things that still builds future senior leaders without useless box checking? Example: I've heard that due to funding only selects can expect to go to school for the near term, and only school grads can expect a staff. This is stupid and a waste of resources. School selects should not do correspondence and the resident program should be a blend of current program plus SAAS, following that dudes should do a fellowship type program and pop out the other end as the super brainiac thinkers. Non-selects do correspondence, then go to staff and come out the other end as the process dudes. In the end you have the fast burners that are the big idea guys, and the not so fast burners are the process guys who can make those ideas into reality. Probably full of flaws, but it isn't bitching.

13-12s Drop: F15E x5 RC-135 x4 (3 Ewo, 1 Nav) B52 x2 U-28 Cannon x2 <--Me ;) KC-135 AWACS Bone AC-130W C-130 Peoria ANG & Minneapolis AFRES

This is the most revealing anecdote and response in this board to date. Assuming Gen Chang is who he alludes to being and not a troll... Wrapped up in the response to someone who, for whatever reason, had to complete a useless AAD in order to continue to serve and be promoted is all that is wrong with the AF. 1)box checking 2) lack of mission focus 3) careerism 4) and most of all, poor, seeemingly impotent, leadership, reliant on platitudes and dismissive of anyone who doesn't reflect their image of a good officer. A better response: Maul, thank you for your service. (better to lead with that rather than the sanctimonious way in which Chang used it) You faced a tough situation. You would have certainly gone to ACSC based on the select status. However, because of timing, I'm sure you know that any chance for a BPZ would be eliminated. Congrats though, as an in-res school dude you have a great shot at O-6. You can stay tactically relevant and hopefully continue to lead from the front. This is a great example of how choosing not to check the Air force approved boxes can bite you. While I don't agree with the system completely, it is the world we live in for now. (while working to change it). Good luck, enjoy school, and get back to the fight soon.

Exactly. I saw two dudes kiss in the airport the other day and I felt disgusted. That's just how my body reacted. It wasn't some massive assault on PDA, it was just a kiss that I wouldn't have thought twice about if I saw a man and woman instead. That reaction doesn't make me a homophobe, it makes me straight. That said, I firmly believe that if those two dudes love each other and want to get married, they should have that right.

Honestly, I'll take competence and nail polish over a Vin Deisel clone who can't find my travel voucher any day.