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Its my guess that he was quibbiling; trying to save face. Asaiana just released the names of the pilots of 214: Captain Sum Ting Wong; Line Check Airman Wi To Lo; FO: Ho Lee Fuk; FO: Bang Ding Ow

What the hell is wrong with you idiot officers? Nine pages of semantics about your feelings and blah, blah, blah... When you are told by the NCA that openly gay people may serve, you salute smartly, STFU and get back to work. You're aren't paid to have an opinion. You are however, paid to enforce standards. Uniform standards. A male wearing nail polish? What's that got to do with his sexual orientation? (Which is none of your business, BTW.) You guys cry about the idiot shoe clerk NCO who called you out on something silly like PT gear, but you'll let slide facial hair and black fingnail polish? Drag the little dirtbag into his SNCO or commander's office and correct the situation on the spot. Explain to both parties present how dissapointed you are that the most basic of grooming regulations are being so blatantly disregarded. Give the little shit a lawful order to go home and fix it and explain to all the next time you see the young man out of uniform you'll have him arrested. What's become of the USAF I served in? Max, have years of high altitude airline flying rotted my brain? Isn't this how we used to do things?

The sooner that we realize that we're just a manning number to Big Blue, and the only people that might actually care about you are some of your squadronmates, the closer you are to achieving nirvana.

Pics

P: Blinded by the light... CP: Wrapped up like a dusche... P: Its not dusche as in dusche bag, its duce. CP: Wrapped up like a duce? WTF does that mean? P: Its not wrapped up, its revved up. So why would wrapped up like a dusche mean anything? CP: Some people get all wrapped up in their duschery, oh and your 30 knots slow. P: 30 knots slow? Is that some sort of bar drinking pilot song?

Funny. He should have taken that opportunity to look inside at his airspeed. Sounds like a line right out of Korean pilot "save face/SERE" school." Maybe it was the PAPI when it went into "WTF, are you kidding me mode." Yep, that's a new mod to the PAPI...you get that when you go even lower than red/red

Yet every mountain in Korea seems to be an F-5 magnet.

I've worked with A-shreds and I'm pretty familiar with what they are doing on a daily basis. I think it's great as a B-shred that you are working towards an IA degree, I think that fits well and will pay off. The 17DXAs on the other hand really need to get deep into Computer/Software Engineering, CS, and EE. They can get a lot better at their jobs by really understanding the 1s and 0s and the micro level of cyber ops. The things they are doing to contribute to the fight are great, but without smart people, we will fall behind. We aren't the only country that has realized how much cyber can accomplish. Break. Rant on. In 2001 a commission led by Rumsfeld, Peter Teets and others formed to evaluate the management of space professionals, and recommended that the selection, education and training should be modeled after the Navy nuclear program. Well, September 11th happened and priorities quickly shifted away from space cadre management to fighting terrorism, and justifiably so. The result, however, has been a career field manned with the less-than-stellar cadets from each of the commissioning sources, and absolutely no focus on technical expertise. While pilots receive world-class specialized training that fills in any gaps in knowledge they might need to perform their duties, that has not traditionally happened in space. On the contrary, AFPC had the 13S career field as a dumping ground to send bodies, and the mass crossflow of missileers made system experts a rarity. As a result, our growth and progress has not been nearly what it could be. With new leadership, all of this has changed. Space and missiles officially split into separate AFSCs, training has been completely remodeled, and accessions must now have a technical background. Additionally, we have tons of SPEED programs, advanced courses that count as Masters classes that we attend, and multiple degree programs around the country that are specifically tailored to space operators. As a Lt or junior Capt pulling crew, you have tons of time to do school work during your swing/mid shifts, and all of the other Lts around you are working on the same classes. On top of that, what these junior officers learn during their degree programs directly relates to their jobs and makes them better operators. Moral of the story, real leaders showed up, used their positions to change things, and everything has improved. Now compare that to the flying world. Young pilots are working their asses off to become system experts, because their lives actually depend on it. At the same time, they are getting hit over the head by leadership pushing degrees that will not contribute a single thing to mission accomplishment. They are deploying frequently and many of them are trying to deal with the stress of marriage/family at the same time. It's no wonder so many members of this forum are dissatisfied with the Air Force. Thousands of people have pushed through it and completed their AAD in spite of the other demands, but WHY? What has been the cost to the Air Force and the American public from those that choose not to deal with the bullshit any more? Are we as effective of an Air Force as we would be if no AAD was required until O-5? I would wager the answer is no. Now it's time for leaders to step up, and make some fucking changes. It's a crime that young fliers were passed over for Captain, it's a crime that they are being pushed into worthless AADs, and the leaders of the Air Force that are also pilots are waiting for what? It is entirely possible that the Air Force could have separate promotion boards with separate requirements for different career fields, like we already do for some. How about a mission support promotion board, non-rated ops board, and rated board, in addition to the Med/JA/Ch boards? Each group sets the requirements and priorities for those in the corresponding AFSCs. It will take some work by HAF/MAJCOM/NAF staffers everywhere, but whatever they have plenty of time. It makes sense, it's good for the service, and it ensures the right people are promoted in each mission area. /rantoff

A few puts on the different aspects of this topic. First, I think arguing for a shake-up in the promotion process (as far as multiple looks IPZ, etc) is not what we should be focusing on. I'd rather see senior raters receive better guidance from their superiors - i.e., "do not use X/Y/Z as discriminators for stratification." I don't want to handcuff them too much, but multiple stories in this thread have proven that many SRs just don't get it and are making bad decisions. Second, Big Blue needs to make a final decision on if and when they want their officers to have an AAD. No more "highly recommended" or "implied through promotion stats" or any of that BS. Just come out and say whether it is a requirement or not and for what rank. I would assume that most senior leaders want their O-4s to have an AAD. The merits of that can be debated but I'd rather just have a definitive answer. My compromise on the whole thing would be...(assuming the "majors should have an AAD" would be the policy)... - Make it mandatory for all rated and select non-rated officers to finish the Air University Online Masters in order to be selected for promotion to O-4. Benefits to this would be that the Air Force controls the curriculum and can adjust it as conflicts and doctrine evolve. The course content is applicable to all rated officers (better understanding of joint organization, command and control, leadership and history). It's free, no ADSC is incurred, and doing this might help run the diploma mills out of business (who take about $700M tax dollars from the American public per year in TA/GI Bill money). - Open the eligibility for the program to O-3 pin on date. This gives members 4 years or so to finish the program prior to the O-4 board. It's only 11 8-week classes (88 weeks of class but you have 208 weeks to complete). This allows plenty of time to take a class, take a break for a deployment or high-tempo time period, then pick it up again later. The classes honestly don't take up too much time, and occasionally you even learn something useful. - Let SRs know that they cannot use GPA or date of completion during stratification. Allow the board to see only whether or not the member has completed the program. - Eliminate SOS and ACSC corr since the program teaches all this anyway. Again, this is a COMPROMISE. I hate AADs as much as the next guy but I think this is a fair meeting point that would satisfy Big Blue's desires while minimizing negative impact to the average rated officer. That's my .02, I know some will disagree.

Flying for a career (to age 65) is realistic and safe...the airlines do it all the time (granted someone in the AF would time out long before 65, but you get the point). An NMR O-6 and above flying once a month (only with an IP nonetheless) for currency and to build hours to put a new airframe on their resume is not safe, but we do it all the time. Forcing our youngest aviators to focus on everything but their primary job of flying is very dangerous...but we do that also. Yes, the Air Force needs strategic leaders and if rated officers want to take that route, stop flying and leave that to the younger guys who "just want to fly." In all my years of flying, I've had exactly 1 OG and 1 WG/CC who were fully qualified in the aircraft and didn't require an IP to fly their once-a-month hours-building sorties. The OG was actually an IP and a very good one at that. Can the Air Force afford a bunch of passed over Majors to fly through 20 years of service or do we get more bang for the buck with the senior Captains and junior Majors? From a fiscal perspective, probably not the most cost effective, but real question is can the Air Force afford NOT to have those experienced aviators training the newest pilots given our current climate and "focus?" Chances are, those crusty passed over Majors flew their whole careers and didn't worry about things other than their primary job so they're probably good at it. Nowadays, the chances are the senior guys and the "young Captains" who are supposed to be training these new pilots focused on AADs and PME moreso than the mission during their developmental years all while we non-continued our experience. So, Yes...in that regard, that is dangerous. For Liquid's question...AADs shouldn't be masked for O-5 and of course it is a no-brainer that PME is required at ALL levels. I just don't see the value of the AAD before that point unless, like others have said in earlier posts, the Air Force has sent someone to an actual brick and mortar school to specialize in something that will benefit the AF. BT

This is unbelievable and complete crap--and I don't care who is on trial. It's not justice to change the rules at the last minute. A defense prepares their case based off the charges the State brings at the beginning, not for other 'potential' charges that can be brought up at the last minute. Also, who's to say that a defedant would keep his same 'not guilty' plea if he new he was being tried for a lesser charge? If you want to charge him with something else (ie if there's a hung jury) then go for it, but start a new trial with the new charge. https://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-11-10-13-00

"The Lt Col list will be released on 17 Jul. Do any of you think AAD and IDE (res or corr) should be complete prior to IPZ to O-5? Should SR, MLRs and boards consider advanced education when determining who should be promoted? I am in favor of completely masking AAD at O-4 board, but not O-5. Thoughts? " short answer- "2" to jughead's post. long answer- I got a "real" masters before entering active duty in 1995 after an ROTC commision with 1 in 100 qualified graduates receiving a pilot slot. It was a direct follow-on to my "real" BS. I knew I might need one in life, was already in school mode, and didn't not want to take away from my real work in the future. My classmate was an Army O-5 Assigned to the same degree program, full time. I also knew it was a pilot training trough, and it would get better towards the end of my first assignment non-flying. Timing isn't everything, but it covers for a lot. I am biased against work outside of one's assignment. How do you fully bloom where you are planted, otherwise? Why take away from your personal time or the taxpayers' time? Amazing what you can learn as a tier 2 late rated, ex-Mx officer when you don't need to sweat SOS and a masters. SOS- got sent as a last second pick before I'd even signed up- lucky. ACSC? That was 8 weeks of time wasted after a deployment, ORI and ASEV- but- I wanted to make it to O-5 and that was the final box to check. I found the joint points process to be a joke, I hit it towards its infancy, though and never cracked the code before it was time to move on in the ARC. If it could be wrapped into a better officer development that removes the AF centric DE AND replace the need to self-serve an AAD- that would be great. I wasn't taking a bronze star 179 as an airline pilot by then. The ACSC/Masters was a good start, but look at it honestly. You have to remove the AAD from all levels of rack-n-stack, not just those you listed, if you mask it. I agree, by O-5 board, you are in it for a career and the game is changed- that does not mean the current self-service option for AAD is correct. I agree that PME is PME- if required to be completed, equal credit for in or out of residence. Don't look at the date vs. promotion. I get the requirement to stratify all and hurt some in the current mindset. I was lucky to be an OG's exec as a O-3 after being late rated. I learned there was no way I could do what I saw the O-6s doing with their 7 days per week. Couldn't just be a Sq/CC or DO and be happy- those turned into springboards or parking stalls. That used to be the goal when I was a kid. Chiefed every other office job in a flying sq you can name through the inspection cycles, then saw the writing on the wall. Happily flying in the ARC as a crustifying O-5, insert appropriate Rainman remarks here.. Big elephant of which to take that first bite- if you don't fix the OPR, you won't have an easy fix to the PRF. The stratification whack-a-moles are by-products. I argue that drives this entire thread's root cause. Fix one issue, another will crop up. Hope you know the decoder ring when your PRF is in the cue. Great thread, wish every 2Lt could learn these lessons early- and be driven to be an expert in their assignment, not in their future PRF.

IMHO, until someone can show some concrete proof that the AAD's people are getting actually do the Air Force any good, it shouldn't be a requirement at anytime. At best, you're getting someone who is only slightly wasting his time. At worst, you're taking someone's attention and focus (at every level O-3, O-4, or O-5) away from their primary job to force them to prove they "care about being promoted" and nothing else. Then add in the stress that the lost time contributes to family life, and you get disgruntled individuals. I have zero AAD. I started 3 times and each time I couldn't stomach the garbage, so I stopped and put my focus where it belonged. The mission. Somehow I got picked up for school, and I even got an incredible push from my SR. When my current boss told me I needed to get my AAD now to be competitive I politely told him that I wouldn't be doing it. I even asked him if he thought it was legit, or just for box-checking to be promotable. You wouldn't like his answer. Nice guy, but drunk on kool aid. If I still am able to continue pushing up the line without my AAD (I firmly believe in PME, even if correspondence is stupid just to do in residence), I will continue to fight against AAD's until I get fired for it. When will senior leadership realize that AAD's are ZERO ADDED VALUE? Caveat: you send someone to a real school somewhere for a real degree, but then we're talking IDE aren't we? Good points. I was typing when you did that up. Again though, we're talking apples and oranges AADs. Real and applicable to careerfield vs. diploma mill in order to promote. Thanks for the insight.

The Lt Col list will be released on 17 Jul. Do any of you think AAD and IDE (res or corr) should be complete prior to IPZ to O-5? Should SR, MLRs and boards consider advanced education when determining who should be promoted? I am in favor of completely masking AAD at O-4 board, but not O-5. Thoughts?

I'll take 10 Tony Carrs in the USAF over 1 Chang. I knew and flew with him. GC, you are no TC. Stick to quoting Shakespeare in Klingon. The world will be better for it.

The flaw is the guy that is two or three years above has had two or three more years to build a better record than the guy who is in the zone, how is that fair to the IPZ guy? Tossing a kick save to an APZ dude is not a small thing, are there cases where the system screwed up, absolutely, but each time the system corrects itself it comes at the expense of an IPZ guy. I don't think you are arguing from the perspective of "everyone has to be a winner", at least I hope not, more along the lines of the system overlooks someone who should have been picked up?

They don't...they did the bare minimum to comply with the law. Keep your head down and don't ask questions.

I realized long ago that the Air Force needs me more than I need the Air Force. Makes things pretty easy in the end...

TX in three weeks, ANG unit that sits alert, I'm already there bro! Edit to add: After the 'fuge I'll be there.

Just like when Big Blue turned its back on me. Would have been nice to fill out an exit survey, though, especially after seeing the sweeping changes that followed every other survey I filled out.

Tier 3. Maybe Tier 2 if they kiss the correct ass.

You're out of your mind. At what point do you pause to consider that after 169 long winded, redundant posts, maybe there is a problem with the presentation rather than the comprehension?

1) Actually APZ guys always have a shot to compete for DPs in future years with IPZ guys... nobody was saying they couldn't 2) I agreed with Liquid that a guy who didn't get a DP IPZ will probably not beat out someone for a DP APZ 3) Liquid agreed that an APZ with a P is essentially not really even looked at which is why I asked why we practiced bleeding with APZ PRFs with Ps 4) I then suggested that instead of having a single year IPZ that it be a window like School looks, possibly 2-3 yrs so those in the grey area that we all agreed were about the same didn't fall between the cracks because of something as simple as changing Board criteria or Staff opportunities that were out of the individual's control. I have an idea... instead of talking about my head spinning from discussions with Liquid who actually seems to know what he is talking about, maybe you should take your head out of your ass and go troll somewhere else! Airman Chang... You're dismissed!

Willing to risk burning to death or taking an RPG in the head, but unwilling to risk that next promotion or assignment? Courage is more than risking your life to defend your country and your team. It is also doing the right thing in the face of possible adverse consequences. Do it respectfully and with some passion and your commander should at least respect your opinion and your courage to say something unpopular but founded in logic and truth. Not calling you out brick, or saying you are not courageous. Just countering your caution to not have the discussion because it may piss off your boss.

Liquid—seems like you are listening-truly appreciated. Pressing the “I believe” button that you have a chance to influence the next generation from the perch, I will add my .02. The culture is sadly changing, but I am not sure that isn’t by design. Even worse, when the battle ragged guys need “leadership” when it appears our senior leaders are stuck in a world of management…not entirely their fault. Civilian furloughs and budget choices that I wouldn’t envy seems to have us low on airspeed and altitude. That being said, rising to the top of an organization with talent like the AF is impressive and implies you guys will handle it . There are of ton of lurkers reading this I am sure. Thanks for not blowing it off because only a select few are posting. My first FLUG ride as a shiny new patch…as the story goes….Pumped for the opportunity mold a steely eyed killer from a bulldog on a leash to a young flight lead. I was already doing an upgrade the day before, but it was a retread. Fun flying, but not like the young guy entering a FLUG sortie. There are few sorties better than this. I walk out of the retread debrief looking to pass some early encouragement and answer what I assumed would be the same hundred questions I had the day before FLUG. In the back…nowhere to be found. I assumed the squadron bar, smiled, and thought….this is the world of fast jets. Old timers in the bar discussing BFM with the young ones while telling “Old Bull / Young Bull” for the 69th time. (yes I said 69). Nope not there. I actually found him in a common room with books open and papers about. Walked in, and as you have probably guessed…it wasn’t 3-1, 3-3, or the Wing Standards. Hell it wasn’t even one of someone else’s briefs…. The kid had a final that evening. He didn’t want to say anything and miss the opportunity for the FLUG ride and inevitably catch shit from the line IPs. PISSED is an understatement. I couldn’t believe it and walked out without a word. Then it hit me…things changed in a matter of a few years. I didn’t see it because I was head down in my own world. Kid was a hell of a stick and “apparently” working to be a helluva an officer. I realized then this is what the institution wanted. This is the guy that is bitching about having to do AADs over family time and tactical stuff. Then he hears it from his squadron patch/line IPs about “the important sh%t” while a well-meaning commander says—“do it so you can change it when you get there”. He is pissed, his tactical leaders are pissed, his commander’s can’t change it and he’s about to tell mama he got shacked for a 179 and told “suck it up, this ain’t IBM”. Yes, things are changing. RPA guys were TAMI’d and doing the J.O.B. They are dropping on bad guys, supporting the troops on the ground, going down town in the 21st Century, but they get shit on for it. The establishment passes blame for creating a culture where they are not valued. WTFO! A new capability requiring talent but a challenge for senior leadership to both manage and inspire and “THEY” blame the younger guys for a less than ideal culture? As Iaccoca said “Where have the leaders gone”? (I will save the story of a sim only 4-FLUG—this post is already not faster or funnier) The stories are large in number, but after all of these posts, WHAT is changing. If it’s not going to change…SAY IT. Those that embrace the new way…best of luck, kill bad guys, and lead those that follow. Those that don’t..thanks for your service. I am not disgruntled, I am truly just sad. I only speak for myself but I still believe.... I know … FNG post—let the spears fly edited: because obviously my AAD wasn't English Grammer

At the Corona last fall, the MAJCOM CCs and CSAF talked about what we value as an AF and what we should value at promotion boards. I helped chop on the input below that was sent to CSAF and HAF A1 from our MAJCOM CC. He sent this in Oct: "What we value in every officer for promotion (in priority order) Capt to Major 1. Job performance (AC, IP, EP, WIC, AMU OIC, FLT CC, etc) 2. Leading Airmen both in garrison and deployed 3. Combat deployments, deployed mission commander 4. SOS 5. Additional duties: exec, safety, training, current ops & scheduling, plans, etc. This provides us insight into which officers can master their primary skill set and also handle increased responsibility. 6. Optional: Masters Degree Major to Lt Col 1. Job performance 2. Leading Airmen both in garrison and deployed 3. Combat deployment mission commander 4. Joint job - GCC, OSD, JS, Inter-agency 5. HQs job- HAF, MAJCOM 6. IDE either in-residence or correspondence 7. Masters degree Lt Col to Col 1. Job performance 2. Squadron commander 3. Leading Airmen both in-garrison and deployed mission commander 4. Joint job - GCC, OSD, JS, Inter-agency 5. HQs job- HAF, MAJCOM 6. SDE either in-residence or correspondence 7. Masters degree" Not sure what the response was or if there was one. I've heard the CSAF and A1 are working on the vector and new promotion board guidance. Hopefully this guidance will include masking AAD at O-4 board, MLR and prohibit using it for DP consideration.

If there is an exit survey when you separate, then I didn't get it. Along that same line, when I said I was separating, no one in my chain wanted to know why i was getting out...apparently a 15 year 11F, Lt Col(S) pitching out didn't seem odd to anyone....The OG/CC, WG/CC...not one "dude, what's up?" Cheers, Cap-10

Awesome! Compliance while getting around it at the same time!

https://www.vogue.co.uk/ Once the page loads, type the Konami code. WTF?

As promised, here are the comparison pics. The first is a bottom view (L to R) of a SIG P220, Beretta M9, HK USP9, FN FNX-45, S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman w/4" bbl. These were lined up by muzzle. Out of the semi-autos the Beretta is the longest. The next is a side view. The FNX-45 with the 15 round mag is the tallest, with the USP9 and the Beretta being the shortest. Here is a slide thickness comparison with the USP9. The FNX-45 is wider, but not by much. The last few pics are a comparison with the M&P9. As you can see the FNX-45 is the larger handgun overall. I chose these specific handguns, because they are full size duty/service handguns so they fall into the same category as the FNX-45. Realize that a USP9 (and the 40) are smaller than the USP 45 variant, so that may have been a more appropriate comparison since the FNX-45 is a .45 ACP handgun. The only handgun chambered in the same caliber is the P220. For a comparison with the 1911, it has a similar length and height as the Beretta, but would be the thinnest out of the above handguns. Sorry for the somewhat blurry photos.

Max, Relax, Roll.... .... I've said too much.

Increase ADSC by one day each time the following occurs: 1) eat at the base Burger King 2) Shop at the Commissary/BX Decrease ADSC by one day: 1) Purchase a meal at the "Club"

Holy shit, they just showed a picture a passenger took. There were fuckers carrying their bags. If I am getting out of an aircraft that just crashed and you grab your bag, you are getting throat punched.

Not sure why I chose this thread as my first post, but here it goes: The problem isn't sexual orientation. It's military bearing. If male SrA Sugarpants feels comfortable rolling into work sporting a finely trimmed goatee and nail polish, we have failed. The fact that this kid wasn't sent home by the first NCO in his chain is a foul. Frankly, I don't give a shit if this kid can simultaneously process a travel claim, un###### DTS, and play Freebird on the piccolo flute through his anus, he needs to uphold basic uniform standards. He's in the military for shit's sake. You represent much more than yourself when you wear the uniform. We all know this. If you want to roller skate through the Castro district armed with a battle Prius and a fannypack full of dicks, that's awesome... Just not in uniform. We need to maintain the image of the US military as a force to be respected and instill the confidence in the general public that we are ready to fight defend at all cost. I can't see where man nail polish fits into that image. I was going tie in the whole argument how really fat people in uniform is basically the same thing, but I've lost the desire to fight. AFA ladies, you can keep your mustaches. That shit is scary and commands respect.

Based on the thread title, I thought this thread was about Eagle pilots.

Just looked it up (I'm bored)--according to AFI 26-2903 page 15, males are not authorized to wear nail polish. You should have said something. And as for Pawnman's comment: I hear you in that we want competent folks, but why can't we have competent folks who are also adhering to the regs and standards? Has the Air Force gotten that bad?

I think by the end of this week it won't make much of a difference--my money is going on that SCOTUS will strike down DOMA as unConstituional. Huggy'a argument about dead people is a foolish one (hard to have a relationship with a person who is not a person)...but the argument about multiple wives, marrying your siblings, etc still stands as a valid argument. IMO the church and whatever non-govt organization that is allowed to perform marriages should get out of the contract business and the State should get out of marriage business. States should enforce legal contracts, regardless of what combination of people want to enter into the contract. After that we can get rid of all the silly 'benefits' rules that the State and Federal to govt extend to people who are in these contracts. That way people can 'marry' whoever they want, anybody can enter into legal contracts for whatever reason (ie sharing a bank account, child custody issues, etc), and then I don't have to pay to support or not support various different lifestyles, regardless of whether of not I agree with them. Problem solved.