Leaderboard

We don't give the FSOs the most effective tools they need to get the squadron flyers the lessons from a mishap. We give them AFSAS reports. We should give them the simulator recreation, with CVR, and brief the convening authority gets. You learn more from just seeing what happened in the recreation that you do in the report. The C-17 stall over Guam, the C-17 crash in Alaska, the C-5 crash at Dover, the MC-130H crash in Albania, the U-28 crash in DJ and the MC-12 crash in Afghanistan all have very powerful and informative videos that recreate the cockpit instrumentation, the relative aircraft position, and the exact crew coordination and communication that occurred. It is excruciating to listen to when you know the crewmembers, but it is an extremely effective teaching tool that will prevent future mishaps. We are allowing AFSEC and MAJCOM privilege policy, not law, to restrict our education and limit prevention. This needs to change now. The unacceptable way we handled the MC-12 mishap info clearly shows that.

Because senior leadership fires them when they oppose stupid ideas. This whole witch-hunt isn't really serving the purpose it is intended to. You know what I think will happen? I think you will succeed beyond your wildest dreams in making the Air Force a purely professional organization, like any civilian company. When I worked for civilian companies (I joined the Air Force late, through OTS), I did not hang out with my co-workers. I did not mentor them, they did not mentor me. If I had a problem at home, I didn't say a word about it to my co-workers. None of my civilian co-workers, aside from my immediate boss, knew my wife was pregnant (and my boss only knew because I needed a day off for one of her medical appointments). You say you want us to be super-professional...ask yourself if this is really the Air Force you want to build. Next time you see hand-wringing over fighter pilot retention, ask yourself why so many people are so eager to quit a job that most Americans would love to do for free, despite a 6-figure retention bonus. Why is morale so low? Well, you've got a whole group of people here that are telling you exactly why morale is so low. Shall I enumerate them for you? 1. One size fits all policies. Or, as I've said before, "If you can't do something smart, do something visible". The Wilkerson case and the Smith case generated some bad press for us in front of congress. The result is that we've done these sweeping inspections and destroyed a lot of heritage in the process, not because it will solve the problem but in the name of showing civilian leadership that we've done SOMETHING. How successful has it been, I wonder? Are reports of sexual assault up, or down, since the purges? 2. In line with number 1, senior leaders have destroyed any ability for SQ/CC and below to lead. When you impose these types of policies at the highest levels and tell every subordinate commander to get on-board, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of room left for leadership. It's not just the purges, although that's a big part of it. It's WG/CCs calling people out on the color of their socks or their gym bags at the gym. It's fostering a culture where everyone is equal, everyone should call everyone out, that destroys any CGOs ability to lead and command respect from the enlisted force...because the enlisted force is now cleared hot to call out officers on any infraction, no matter how small. I used to see this as a problem with shirts in the deployed location, but in appears senior leadership likes the model so much we've brought it home. 3. Unrelated to SAPR, but the level of queep just continues to grow as we do more and more useless things in the name of "training". We also seem to have no real long-term plan when it comes to things like RAP, flying hours, budgets. I get that some of that is driven by the lack of a budget from our civilian leadership...but I spent September flying 8.0s every other day to "burn" our flight hours, only to be stood down for three weeks in October because we didn't have flight hours. Really? 4. Finally, the purges and the high-profile cases are creating a Cold War-era attitude of distrust, where the people who work and fight together are now constantly suspicious of one another for fear that a wayward joke or misplaced word will end their career with an accusation of sexual harassment, real or not. I know what the company line is, but from a crew dog perspective, we all know that if you are even accused of sexual assault or sexual harassment, your career is over, no matter what the investigation concludes. This is not an environment conducive to the open communication that senior leadership keeps telling us we need for mission accomplishment, suicide prevention, DUI prevention, keeping someone from becoming and active shooter...every interaction where I talk about my problems now leaves me vulnerable to my colleagues, so I'm better off just keeping my problems to myself. You are right about changing the culture, I'm just not sure you're going to get the culture you want.

I have seen it and lived it, on both sides of the Class-A investigation - I agree that crews don't need all the private tab-access personal information stuff, but they do need to be able to read an SIB report (and some of that stuff is usually included - photos, transcripts, video, etc). If the SIB is out, crews have every right to come to safety, sit down and read it. All of it, at least what is released... And if safety can get the tapes, they should play them. I'm not saying start handing out SIB reports. I am saying be up front with info for the crews, and show them what you can if you are asked. That being said, MOST dudes want the cliffs notes version. They want to know what happened and why, how it effects them, how they can use the findings to make themselves safer pilots. But when a guy comes to safety and says "I want to read the SIB", it is not the safety officer's job to pass judgement on what the lowly crewdog gets to read. If you can read it, they can read it. Brief them on privilege, document that you gave them a copy of the SIB and follow up to get it returned. Or if you still dont trust them, let them read it in your presence. This hyper-control of information, fear-of-god bullshit comes straight from the AF Safety Center. I disagreed with it when I went through the courses, and I still disagree with it. "Toe-ing the line" and deciding who "needs to know" what information is garbage, and safety offices continue to hide behind it. And that's why people are angry - it is a continued lack of trust in people and aircrew. The comparison between TS-SCI and AFSAS access is spot on. As is the assertion that privilege or protection is out the window... If some general wants to burn you, they will. Chuck

Who are you to decide what I need to correctly ascertain the lesson? What if 7 day history is part of the problem? The system is terrible and doesn't work at all. TS is required for my job; somehow I'm professional enough to keep those secrets; why do you think I would go post on YouTube if I saw the recreation?

Basically every other poster in the last several pages of this thread would beg to differ.

So nose art was ok but it's not anymore but it might be again someday? Add this to the long and distinguished list of reasons I left the organization I once loved before people like you started to ruin it. Are you understanding yet why many don't trust senior "leadership"? Serious question.

Ho Lee Fuk

^^ Valid. I meant a different figure of speech. McC resigned because he said some dumb (and accurate) shit to a reporter. He didn't "bring his opinion into the public view to force debate at the expense of his career", ala a dude testifying to a Senate committee on substandard body armor, etc. He trusted a reporter. Big difference.

Today I laughed when I saw a unit safety rep posting a flyer on the safety board.....special interest item......Thrill rides not allowed. I was perplexed so I had to the fine print as to what a thrill ride was. Apparently some dude morted himself by riding a motorbike at 100+ mph after smoking pot. Thankfully the USAF has solved the problem with this ban that laws and common sense could not and there go my weekend plans. I only wish this ban had been in place to save that young military member before he smoked his joint and got on his bike because if he saw this....I know he would have obeyed.

I read what you wrote, and to paraphrase the Prez, "You didn't write that." There's a world of difference between being "asked to leave the military for breaking the employer/employee relationship," and being told "you can leave quietly and we won't make this an issue (by pressing charges, followed by a slam-dunk conviction), take your pension, and embarrass us all. For the good of the service, and the country, retire before we court martial your ass." And McChrystal didn't fall on his sword, he spoke his mind with a reporter. Big difference. I remember those days well. Years of trash-talking Billy at every turn, followed by 8 years of those (formerly contemptuous) officers reminding E's of their UCMJ responsibilities with regards to W. And now we're back to square 1, with those same O's now trash talking Obama. The circle of life continues...

Fuck, we're there. I'm already off base, off duty, off uniform, SOP. Nothing good ever comes out of sponsoring host wing functions or socializing of any kind on base, which my family already boycotts by default.. See how that unintended consequences bit works? Just doing my 9-5 jerb, boss..... Drinking or socializing inside the fence, are y'all fucking new? LOL Now let's all sing the NEW Air Force Song everybody! Sure got a catchy tune to it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-gqMpZroy8 Workin' 9 to 5 What a way to a livin' Barely gettin' by it's all takin' and no givin'...............

Interesting. I maintain that the only way to really have zero sexual assaults in the military is if we don't have anyone in the military. And we have been repeatedly told that zero is the only acceptable number. I just think that's awfully disingenuous. But don't tell the boss or the SAPR dudes that...

You should see the one they implemented to teach aircrew how to use the new AirCard (formerly known as the white fuel card)...and the AFI that goes along with it. We seriously need an audit to quantify the amount of supercilious CBTs-"training" that are being dished out to end users...I don't know if the bosses are aware of what the average crew member is required to complete.

Well, great! We're the Air Force! I see no problem... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Take pics, put in a file and if you get passed over/career not where you want it, scream harassment and blame it on fighter culture racism.

Yeah. It's the folks that are fleeing (en masse, by the way, the numbers of which even the most delusional of your peers can't deny), yeah, they're the problem. All of those folks in the 2004 and beyond year groups, the ones who don't talk about anything but where to get their ATP, how to best network with the guard/reserve airline pilots, how to best protect themselves from a 365/RPA/etc, when the next VSP/RIF will be, when to realistically apply for Palace Chase... yeah, those people don't exist, and if they did, they're the problem. We don't need them anyway... the Warrior Monk ShoeClerks can fight the next war. You can't make this shit up.

Sorry dude, I shouldn't have slammed you. It is the AFSEC and MAJCOM/SE policies that prevent you and other safety shops from getting the video and ppt that have failed. Hopefully we will get some traction next week at the safety conference.

Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month also has nothing (repeat NOTHING) to do with defending the nation, killing people, or executing the mission...but yet you guys at the Pentagon have hard-on's for all these 'special' months. Now why is that? I'm sure if we got rid of those special months that the Air Force would move right along and execute its mission. And I'm sure (like you said) nobody would be talking it about 3 years from now...and do you know why? Because nobody talks about it now! It wastes resources, but yet, someone has to set up events, write a PA article about it, and promote the month. I know you're getting crapped on from just about everyone on here (including me) but I would appreciate a response to my questions in earlier posts. You're trying to explain the directive of the CSAF, and in doing so, I want to know if watching Seinfeld while pulling alert is allowed? If we can listen to FM radio at work (maybe during unit PT sessions) even though there are sexually offensive songs on the radio? Why can't guys sleep in the same pods with girls (non-married) downrange or use the same cadillacs? Why are bikini pictures, posters of girls with guns, etc considered offensive today and not last year? Was 90% of the General Officers knowingly and willingly supporting sexual harassment several years ago by allowing all this to happen?...even at the point of allowing AAFES to bring in NFL cheerleaders? Why is it not sexually offensive or inappropriate to allow service members to march in a civilian gay pride parade supported by the DoD? Why are the pictures RTB posted of girls in bikinis still available for view on a DoD website? By the way, the chick on the 6th picture looks pretty damn hot. Unless a brand new Lt or A1C was actively involved in a deployable unit (ops, mx, etc), that said new Lt/A1C would barely understand the gravity of the situation of that we're still at war and we have good dudes fighting downrange. 7-8 years ago that's mostly what CC calls were all about...now it's about all this other crap. In a lot of ways, you senior officers 'can't see the forest for the trees'.

You know, he is correct.

I don't work at the puzzle palace, hunt pictures or desecrate AF heritage. #### you and your "here you go" bullshit. I am doing something about this.

Going active duty instead of direct to the guard/reserve.

Are you finished? Well allow me to retort... 1. We will be able to correct the purge over-reactions and bad decisions on heritage. They didn't burn the art. Nose art that was painted over can be painted again. Family pictures and magazines will come back. But the culture change will work and it will lead to a reduction in sexual assaults, and a reduction in the restricted reporting caused by mistrusting leadership. It isn't the only strategy, but it will help. We overcame racism and sexism. Our Air Force used to argue passionately that blacks, women and homosexuals couldn't serve. They were wrong. We will overcome the sexualized and inappropriate culture that tolerates sexually offensive material, sexual innuendos and sexually offensive jokes. It isn't very widespread in our Air Force now and it won't exist much longer. I have spoken to many, many female Airmen and officers who are very happy about this culture change. They think it will make a difference. I know you don't agree, but we will be ok. Pilots fled for the airlines in the mid to late 90s, when the sex traditions were at their peak and morale was high. Airline hiring is the biggest factor for retention, not word games, jokes, songs and porn. 2. Gym bags and sock colors are red herrings. They are rare examples of bad leadership on stupid shit. Put an Airman or NCO or lower ranking officer in their place for correcting you on stupid shit. Be careful about where you draw the line. Wearing a sexually offensive tee shirt to the gym (one that says "F*ck You" on it for example) should get you direct feedback from everyone. I've seen that shirt and corrected it. And nothing destroys a CGO's ability to lead and earn respect from the enlisted force than the selective enforcement of simple AFIs. Bitching to the finance Airman, crew chief or the 1CO about their professional failures while your sunglasses are on your head, your sleeves are rolled up, jacket is completely unzipped and your left arm has a Steeler's patch on it doesn't work. It will be difficult to have a conversation with a young Airman maintainer about the importance of discipline and following tech orders when you sport a Robin Olds mustache, are too cheap or lazy to get new boots or sport a fat dip in your lip. 3. Got it. Flying circles for 8.0 hours for no reason is ridiculous. You'll bitch about being told what color socks to wear, but when it comes to executing orders to train with your programmed flying hours, you waste fuel and flight hours to fly in circles. Do we have to give you the specific guidance about how to be good stewards of taxpayer money by turning fuel into currency and proficiency? The crazy thing is if you don't need to spend the money, it actually goes to someone who does. When you spend wastefully at the end of the FY, you are burning the opportunity for someone else to use those precious hours or ops/mx funds. And your current end of year spending actually has nothing to do with next years program. It has already been programmed and will be more informed with continuing resolution limits than it will be by last year's closeout. 4. A wayward word joke or misplace word is not sexual harassment or a hostile work environment. It won't ruin a career. Don't be so dramatic. Failure to correct the deviations (you know, be an officer), retaliating against those who complain, or constantly misplacing words and jokes, will rightfully ruin your career. Just have the courage to do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. If the right thing is stopping stupid shit from happening, then stop the stupid shit. I can't wait for this mystical airman or chief who tells me what color gym bag I can carry says something to me. You will need to convince people that it was the right thing to do. Defending porn in the vault or on the network, sexual innuendos at work and sexual assault as the right thing will be very difficult. Gym bags, colorful shoes or socks won't. What we need is an officer corps willing and able to lead our Air Force into combat and at home, with the resources, policies, talent and missions we are given, not just the ones we want. We need officers who can motivate, build camaraderie, and lead people to do things they may not be all that willing to do. We need our pilot and crewmember officers to lead the Air Force, not complain about shoe clerks, socks and songs. We are at war for f*ck's sake.

Re timeliness: I've been a Class A SIB BP and a few other roles...the instant we believed releasing info was necessary to prevent future mishaps, we sought the MAJCOM/CC's permission to put the fix in place (Mx action, TO change, etc). Contrary to popular opinion, you probably do not instantly need to know what happened. If you're really interested in flight safety, go read the 91 series, and go to ASPM/AMIC and become a safety officer. Safety reports are full of very sensitive info and are not for the curious. That's what AIBs are for. ETA: I routinely look up reports and TELL the curious/interested what happened, without releasing privileged info. That's what safety offices SHOULD be doing.

Noted and shredded. I'll serve the remainder of my time honorably without fail, pass the torch to the next generation, and then I'll do whatever the hell suits me.

Perhaps I'm not communicating well. I'll try again for xaarman: you do not need to see the recreations, listen to the CVR, watch the HD video of the T-38 mishap, even if you fly T-38 aircraft. You do not need the crews 72 hour and 7 day histories. You do not need to listen to the spouse interviews, or see the crash site photos, or read the autopsy reports. You don't need toxicology, or school transcripts, or training records, or FEFs. You don't need to read the SIB deliberations, the metallurgy reports, or the human factors analysis. You DO need to know what happened, and what's being done to prevent recurrence, in AFSAS final report detail. Which is why if you ask, I'll let you read the final and/or MOFE for ANY mishap. Even more importantly, the SIB has to do its job and put forth meaningful, effective recommendations to prevent recurrence...and the MAJCOM must implement them rapidly. The system won't work if privilege fails. And it's a very very good system, and works well. ETA: grammar buffoonery