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God I'm glad I went to a normal school.

At least you have seats.

Check sarcasm meter.

Should that NOC list ever make out to the cadet wing it's gonna be a rough day in Gen Pop. I'd have cut a bitch.

I was a little bummed when I left the Zoo after only 4 short months... That is, until my 1st day on campus at Arizona State.

It's a sad article, but I'm not too surprised. It's just a microcosm of AD AF...

If you don't take your leave, you will kill yourself. Trust me, CBTs don't lie.

Bah, I'll believe it when it happens. No one wants to be the Congressman who kept the troops from getting their combat pay. Hell, even when they shut down the government, they bailed out AD military pay in the 11th hour. I've been wrong before but I will be shocked if this comes to pass.

Because that belongs in the Aviation Retention Pay thread...

Halfway there is a still a loooong way to go when my crystal ball says the future holds a 365, less and less flying and no end to the retarded BS. I'm too far out from check O the month club to just stick it out. I'd rather go fly for the guard/reserve as a traditional guy and get a real job. Then I still get to fly and big blue doesn't own my ass anymore.

Yeah, all of that stuff critical to mission accomplishment. I loved the guys who were self-professed experienced military pilots, and could quote 11-217 chapter and verse, yet had never even laid eyes on the JFIRE or 3-09.3 or had any idea what a 3-1 was or why it might be important to their mission in the MC-12.

This is really not true. I don't know if you are at Kandahar or Bagram, but if you're at Bagram send me a PM and we'll sit down for a few minutes and talk about it. You have a decent grasp on the confounding variable of power in the Indy08 situation (although it is the spin it would have contributed to, not the stall itself)...but there was, as has been non-sensically addressed here, a number of others that made the chain that eventually couldn't be broken. It is not acceptable for either squadron to have the subject be taboo and equally unacceptable to even make you feel like it is. As with any other control inputs, it is the performance of the aircraft that is what's important. That mantra is applicable, however it takes a little more than just the blind application of mantras or even procedures to be a good aviator. While the application of boldface (or critical action procedures, if you will) are important to apply in a timely fashion, they still should not be done without critical thought. Doing things without thinking first gets you killed, in the MC-12 and every other aircraft ever made. We have gone out and induced approach to stalls in the mission orbit climb profile and it is very easy (and disturbingly sad) to recover from. However, if you let the autopilot trim the climb, "relaxing" will do little to nothing for you. Rolling wings level will always help, as it will direct the lift where you really need it...while this is not necessary for recovery, it should always be done when available. The power at a low airspeed is needed to not lose altitude, but must be applied very judiciously and with the nose down trim...no rush, there is plenty of time...IF YOU PUT THE NOSE DOWN. I've seen a number of similar situations where the lack of auto-throttles have led to rapidly decaying airspeed, with the autopilot ferociously trimming nose up. Put the nose back to where you need it to be and the situation begins to resolve itself. Control and performance...it very much is airmanship 101. We should learn everything we can each time. I don't believe one should focus solely on one thing or the other. Some in the MC-12 community has learn a great deal from this tragedy, while unfortunately other have not. However, I would argue those people can't be helped until they help themselves first. This was never once said to me during IQT. Had I not asked, I'm not sure anything about the flight guidance panel would have been said. However, the flip attitude of "it's airmanship plain and simple" is a little rough. Maybe that's just due to my current position, but I think even you (with an amazing 600 hours in type) could learn at least a thing or two. Bendy

Perhaps the Senators should educate themselves on current egress technology. The seats we have now are pretty damn safe. In my short career I've known of 5 guys who have ejected out of a Goshawk, 4 that have ejected out of Hornets or Super Hornets, and 2 that have ejected out of Harriers. All of them were okay and returned to flight status. Neck safety = limiting the ability for you to move your neck/head. That's not going to work in a fighter cockpit. Everyone who flies with NVGs and/or JHMCS knows the risk and how to mitigate it.

umm, Rucker dudes don't get FW anything in the drop, so not sure what you're thinking of.