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I'll bite, although I feel as though my response would fall on deaf ears. I have thought about this question for many years (I'm not just about to pin on Capt) and have come to quite a few answers to that questions. My answers are three fold, with a summary at the end. The short of it, we just aren't even. 1. Integrity First- This catch phrase is used to encompass the expectations of subordinates, but not accountable to self or superior. I have seen blatant betrayals from senior leaders when the "deal changes", during any feedback session, or through the horrible personnel management. 2. Service Before Self- The comment in itself reeks of cold war propaganda. Many people subscribe to the God, Family, Country mentality but the Air Force would have you believe that you would put all personal desires second to the Air Force needs. The "needs of the Air Force" have been met personally by my by missing the majority of my own birthdays, christmas and 4th of July celebrations. I have also put the service first by moving to undesirable locations on a timeline chosen for me by the Air Force. In return I am rewarded by the likes of TAMI 21 and multiple RIFs. It is of absolutely no surprise to me that this concept of a one way street with no expectation of the service to show gratitude for my dedication to it's cause. 3. Excellence in All We Do- I can't believe that this even exists as a core value any more. We have punted the majority of the leadership challenges that have come our way in recent years. The least of which is not defined by the current state of large scale acquisition programs. The fraud, waste and abuse run rampant among spineless senior leaders more focused on the nest promotion than holding peers and superiors accountable for their actions. I believe excellence exists in the warriors that I have flown with in combat. I believe whole-heartedly that it exists in most squadrons. I do not believe that it exists above that level. The last, and most important, is the informal "affirmative action" implemented amongst company and field grade officers. The Air Force has gone to great lengths to ensure that we are all wingmen, warriors and leaders. We have reverted to baseline stratifications, masters degrees, PT tests and PME completion as a measure of success instead of number of combat deployments, hours spent in the vault or countless early morning, late nights and endless TDYs. I want to be very clear. We are not equal. A pilot should not be measured against a personnel, maintenance or finance officer. We aren't the same people. We, as aviators, assume an inordinate amount more risk when we execute combat airdrops, prepare for air-air refueling, or execute a combat mission. We aren't even. When reviewing commissioning sources over various years you will find that pilots are required to be the top 50% or better (10% at times) of their peers. Further, at SUPT, T-38 candidates must be in the top 50% of their class. We aren't even, we aren't even close. So, when 10 years into my career a commander stratifies pilots amongst pilots it should be assumed that those numbers are easily the top percentages of the Air Force. Through the personnel management programs we have attempted to even the playing field by placing emphasis on PME and AAD. Yes, I expect that a Personnel 2LT after having completed 4 months of training in his primary AFSC should have the time and energy to commit to those. Conversely, after 12 months of SUPT followed by 6 months of MWS specific training, followed by 6 months of MQT a pilot is given the opportunity to be the WORST pilot in the squadron. From there he is expected to work 12 hour days, spend weekends preparing for upgrades and countless days and weeks on the road. We aren't even. So, you ask why, that's why. We aren't even. We aren't even close. In a completely humble and non assuming context I contend that we just aren't the same people. We are cut from a different cloth and the Air Force has attempted to make us the same guy. So, after 12 years of military service I will cut my losses and take my chances in other ventures. I am willing to wager my military retirement that my statements above are of more substance than mere narcissism. I'm disappointed in the Air Force, in it's leadership and the way in which it downplays it's most valuable resources. We just aren't even.

Chang, What you read on BODN are the heartfelt emotions of your Air Force warriors...this anger and frustration is pent up deep inside and is far more problematic than you could fathom or repair. The Air Force folks you encounter daily likely aren't the ones on this forum; most of the folks on this forum have been fighting non-stop wars and dealing with suck that you couldn't imagine, so I understand why you feel confused. I would happily tell you in person my perspective if the chance occurred. I'm deeply saddened that I feel the way that I do. I could write you a thesis about the subject, but most of the points have been covered in other posts. The path that I took to enter the USAF was extremely difficult and most told me it was an impossible dream. I chased a lifelong dream and wouldn't let anything in the world stand in the way of achieving it. During OTS and UPT, my level of passion and dedication to the Air Force was beyond measure. The pride and sense of duty that I felt every waking moment was extraordinary. I prayed that I would be able to serve at least 20 years. All of this was elevated to a new level when my dedication and hard work rewarded me with my fighter assignment. I walked on water... Fast forward a few years and I am reeling with the debilitating pain of a giant blue cock in my ass fukking away my dreams. That bitch is named TAMI- she works for you. Words can't describe the pain and sense of loss that I felt. Confusion, heartbreak, and crossed describe the feeling well. Faith was lost. Trust was lost. Cards were shown and as a young Lt, I learned a valuable lesson: you are just a number and timing is everything. I moved on and continued, somehow, to serve the country that I wrote a blank check to, payable with my life. After moving on, Service before Self was paid across 9 grueling deployments where I amassed over 1300 hours in combat serving my country. During this time, I watched the last debacle unfold in regards to the VSP/RIF around the same time I watched Mother Blue ass-###### 157 Majors out of the service. It's amazing how I have spent my entire USAF career serving my country while watching Big Blue ###### over it's own at every step. I've seen it too many times. Most of us have seen what was once our passion turn into just a another shitty job. I'm a talented aviator and would drive a jet straight to hell to bomb the devils whorehouse and 69 virgins if my country needed me to. Sadly, the Air Force isn't interested in really serving the country or taking care of it's own. I'll find a way to keep serving my country, and it won't be in the active duty AF. Somehow, you have taken the most talented folks this country has to offer and screwed them to a point where they will turn-in their dreams and a six figure income without second thought. If you opened the gates and let folks run, you would see how bad it really is. Instead we play with VSP shenanigans...not only would we leave for free, I would offer up a chunk of savings at this point as would many. When you turn our passion into just a job, we go searching for better jobs. It never was about the job or the money, it was about passion and dreams. You broke faith. I'm not bluffing and neither are most on this forum. Months ago it seemed like we were being threatened because the cuts were coming and we better check six. I'm calling your bluff. Open the gates...

Chang, you asked "Why?": - Big Blue had the great idea to release Force Shaping immediately before Christmas. Can't think of one upside to that. - Big Blue released PDSMs 13-130 and 13-131 to commanders and failed to mention what was official and what wasn't. If you expected them to "close hold", that's a poor leader not taking care of their people . - Local MPFs had no idea -130 and -131 were not official and told people that they were official. - People like me "showed their cards" prior to applying for VSP because they were told that they had to talk to their commanders before applying. - A1 proceeds to fire off an email AFTER HOURS ON THE 10TH delaying the VSP UFN, ensuring that nobody will know about it until it trickles down sometime Monday....y'know, LESS THAN 24 HOURS TO APPLYING. - Most of us don't learn about it from our chain....our chain learns about it from us. A foul in the every manner of military structure. So, here we are in the current situation. We've shown our cards with our commanders and now there's a fair chance I may not even be elegible. Thanks for the career boost due to mismanagement and untold layers of approval. I think this is how the next five years are going to play out, so I don't want to play. Oh, yeah, that highly likely 365 of questionable purpose might be a driver, too.

just what kids need these days- more slack.

Considering we're talking about Clovis, NM, I think the binary scale is in order....a 1 or a 0, and if you have to think about it, she's a 1

Why the fuck is everyone so interested trying to convince Chang--some low/mid level staff geek--of anything?

Every TAMI guy I know is flying right now unless they slept with their captors. Sorry to hear you didn't escape. Chang - I enjoy my job. CBTs, shoe clerks and the CGOC piss me off, but I take them in stride because I get to fly a Mach 2 death machine that turns 12000 lbs of dead dinosaurs into greenhouse gasses in .9 hours and hurls exploding metal things at people and stuff that want to kill Americans. If you A1 buttholes will just let me keep doing that then I think we can tolerate each other.

Holy sh*t that's patriotic! I got in to build flight time. Thanks for making me feel like a communist. The AF has turned flying, something that man has dreamed of doing since we were wearing loin cloths and pointing at birds in the sky, and made it so unappealing that some people are willing to do anything to not have to do it anymore. It's impressive, really.

Once again, we're so short on people we can't afford to let you go voluntarily, but we're so over on people that we will throw out others in your year group and AFSC that want to stay. Brilliant.

I have often posed the question why an Air Refueling Squadron always had to get a first time commander? I already knew the answer and I already knew that's just the next progression waypoint that TC points out in his article. Again, I will say that careerism is the AF's #1 problem. We care more about promoting people than we do about promoting the right people, at the right time.

You mean they are actually going to look at targeted numbers to cut instead of a random "across the board" cuts like last time? Novel idea....why didn't anyone on BODN think of that... (I have to add my sexism plug) Was she hot?? I keep trying to tell guys not to believe that anything or anyone in the Air Force is safe or immune from anything. The Air Force can, will and has changed the rules as they go along. Sanctuary today doesn't mean sanctuary tomorrow. Continuation today doesn't mean continuation tomorrow. There are NO guarantees! Those of you who signed the 10 year pilot bonus...there are NO guarantees. The AF will use you until they don't need you anymore and then if they want, they will release you before you make your 10 years. You are not guaranteed 10 years...the Air Force is just guaranteed you can't leave on your own for 10 years. Pay close attention to these constant "changes" ladies and gentlemen. They are already slowly eating away at our benefits. I'm pretty sure the "retirement pension" (or retainer fee) debate isn't over...and I'm also betting those currently serving will not be grandfathered into anything. Don't think for a second that anything is off the table now or in the future. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but plan accordingly so you are not caught off guard. This is the reality we live in today....perhaps I'm just preparing myself for the worst case.

Not in my year group, unless they changed it, again... Added: Wow, they did change it. The way it reads now anyone over 15 can do it. Would have been nice to know before I deployed. More added: Awesome, "updated 13 Jan 14" deployed 6 Jan 14. Also saw the ESERB can go after Lt Cols that are only once passed over. That is kind of messed up. Maybe I should go ahead and finish AWC.... on second thought.. No, that course sucks.

Actually you're expected to NOT roll your sleeves. And to wear your reflective belt.

So, is this for pilots as well, or just Medical?

I hate to answer a question with a question, but maybe you and the people you work for need to ask yourself this… How can you manage to take some of the smartest, most highly motivated, talented, skilled, unselfish, mission oriented, succeed at all cost, patriotic citizens this country has to offer… and make them want to do something other than what many of them have dreamed their whole lives about doing??? I have learned by being on this forum long enough not to speak for others, so I will just speak for me. Since I was 4 yrs old I wanted to be a pilot. I didn't want to be just a pilot, I wanted to be a military pilot. The proudest day of my life aside from becoming a Dad was pinning my Wings on my chest… I love wearing a flight suit and I love each and every crew dawg that straps into the seat to go to every shit country that ends in "stan" so that hopefully my kids won't have to!!! It has no kidding been my dream my entire life to be able to do what I do… but I don't want to do it anymore! It's not that I don't want to hack the mission or deploy or put on a tan flight suit anymore (I'll honestly eventually miss all of that)… its that I don't want to deal with moron managers who couldn't lead a bowling ball down a hill. Patton, LeMay, Mitchell… they probably wouldn't make Captain in today's Air Force because they (like most of those who bail AD at the first opportunity) had the balls to look at the boss and say, "Sir, this is fucking stupid!" Somehow with the amazing talent pool that we have to choose from we manage to drive most of our leaders out… for some unknown reason you and your bosses can't figure out why. And for some ungodly reason… you and your bosses actually think that YOU are leaders. You're not...

A) Who the F is this Gen. Welch you speak of? Is he a purveyor or juice products? Not the first time you've made this mistake... B) I'll humor you and play your game. The answers to your questions would be evident if you read many of the threads here or left your office and talked to real no-joke airmen. I digress...as someone who's getting out and looking to take advantage of whatever seperations programs the AF may decide to offer my year group and AFSC: I've had a great time in the AF. On the logical side, great, stable paycheck, recession-proof employment over the last 6+ years, lived in some nice places for the most part, good medical and family support for myself and dependents. On the more emotional side, great dudes, awesome mission where I feel we're really making a difference, got to fly some great airplanes, very proud to have served my country and I hope to be able to do so in other ways in the future. Why am I wanting to get out you ask? Endless deployments, terrible personnel management (I'm looking at you A1...), non-releasable for anything other than flying the line and churning out deployments, ready for new challenges, not looking for more undesirable PCSs either. Massive uncertainty on the future of my community and what that means for one's career, where they will live, how much they'll be gone from family, etc. I'd love to stay in and do any number of jobs AD Air Force has to offer...they just aren't willing to offer then to me or my peers at this point or at any point in the near future. Career field too undermanned to support anything other than flying and deploying and adding more air medals over and over and over again. So I'll release myself. Looking at guard opportunities, looking at other federal employment, mildly looking at other random non-gov related jobs but honestly I'd like to serve in some capacity as a career choice. I look at it like it's all the same team so if AD Air Force isn't willing to play ball with what I and my family want to do with our lives I'm willing to look elsewhere and won't feel a shred of regret or anything other than pride for the career I had up to the day I leave. God speed to my bros who are staying because it's an important job and I'm in awe of many of the good guys who want to do it for the long haul. All that said...if this is all another BS "service before self" ploy to guilt dudes into staying on active duty, I'm sorry that you're even attempting that. It's extremely inappropriate at any level to pull that move on dudes who are separating after honorably serving. Now get off BO.net and get back to fixing this force management train-wreck Debaclypse 2014.

Ha! He He. Ho-man. You're funny.

I don't think you get it.

Easy for a retired 4-star to say -- he's probably over 62 and pulls in six figures in retirement and is completely untouched by reality.

Here's my input to the "great debate"... I admit that if I had a choice, an A-10 (or A-10-like) capability for a CAS mission would usually be my first choice in a survivable environment. However, that doesn't mean that it's an absolute requirement. I know I'm a bit dated, but out of my 250+ FAC missions in the OV-10 (Vietnam), 125 or more of them did CAS support at some point during the 3-4 hour sortie. I don't recall a single one of them resulting in the good guys being overrun due to poor CAS capability. Only one resulted in a friendly fire casualty and that was because the idiot stood up to get a picture of a Mk82 hitting the bad guys about 75 meters away (the ground CC's immediate comment was something like "Never mind, it'll save me the time it would take to beat his stupid ass to death"). The point of this is that we did great CAS work nearly every day with no A-10s. I worked F-100s, F-4s, A-4s, A-7s, A-1s, A-6s , VNAF A-37s, and F-5s, AC-119s, AC-130s, and even some AH-1Gs and UH-1Cs (gunship variants), plus my own pitiful ordnance, of course. Most of the work was in the 100-300 meter range, but some as close as 30 meters. In some cases, the sheer power of the 30mm may have been a detriment...the 7.62 was actually safer to use and plenty good enough in terms of killing power with less collateral damage potential. Each platform had its good and bad points, and had to be used carefully to maximize impact on the bad guys and minimize threats to the friendlies. For instance, a light platform with small ordnance (like an A-37 with 7.62 and 250lb slicks) I generally started working close with guns and backed up about 10m a pass until it was safe to use the 250s. When I had a couple of A-6s (usually VMA 225 out of Danang...really good at CAS!) I'd put one or two mk82s as close as possible to slow the action, then start dropping sticks of five or six (remember, they has 28 bombs each) behind the bad guys about 300m then march the sticks forward about 25m a stick. It didn't take long for the bad guys to figure out they were soon to be caught between a wall of bombs and fire from the friendlies, and they backed out fast. It might have helped that the first sticks tended to take out upper management, watching from the rear, early in the game! In general, F-100s were not too bad, since CAS and other close support was a large part of their mission, and the Marine A-4s and F-4s were very good at CAS since that was almost all they did (especially the A-4s from Chu Lai). They averaged between 20-40 CAS sorties a month and were very good because of their sortie rate. On the other hand, the AF F-4s from Danang (Gunfighters) were usually terrible, but that's because most of them only flew a real CAS sortie once or twice a month. I hated to use them closer than 200m. The VNAF guys were pretty good, too, but most of them had been flying for a decade, with the leads frequently having 1000-2000 combat sorties (mostly CAS) over a decade or more. Navy (mostly A-7s) was my last choice, mostly because they rarely did actual CAS, and I saw them infrequently which lowered my confidence in their abilities. As a matter of fact, my feeling is that good CAS may be less about the airframe than the pilot experience in the cockpit (and maybe about the guy directing the situation (air or ground FAC, or whatever the current nomenclature is). The Marine F-4/AF F-4 comparison is a good example. Just a thought...

All helicopters use flight engineers...and believe me, I'm VERY glad to have them.

Yeah, that sucks man. And I'm sure all others in NYC who isn't 'permitted' to have a firearm also doesn't have one <sarcasm>. Well, folks on the left tell women to pee all over themselves if they're getting raped (rather than carry a firearm), so my suggestion is to always be drinking either a lot of coffee or a lot of beer. All joking aside, stay safe out there man, and GTFO at your first opportunity!

In all seriousness...and I know, I'm usually extremely sarcastic (which drives Champ and Rusty nuts), but not in this instance....please give me straight-forward, honest feedback on why you (if applicable) are so confident that things in the civilian world will be significantly better for you, your family, your sense of purpose, your paycheck...your life. Is there nothing redeeming anymore about a full Air Force career? Is "Air Force Career" a dirty phrase? There's so much anger on BODN, I don't think General Welsh could do anything to please many of you. I don't see that much anger in real life, so I'm trying to understand the disconnect. Thanks in advance for the straight-forward, specific responses. And if you love what you do, please don't be afraid to post as well. Edited for spelling- thanks Barnes.

read the post and use your mastery of the English language to decide for yourself.

You mean you didn't figure this out before you signed on the dotted line and now you're pissed? Are you ######ing serious? Your derp derp filled rant indicates otherwise. Yes. Do someone else a favor and FSB yourself if you feel that you've made such a poor life choice.