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True statement, but that will never happen unless the AF does an abrupt 180 (which I'll put a million bucks on will never happen). Clubs are still used to some extent overseas because it's close and easy to migrate over there when everyone's already too drunk to drive from work, but the level of use is still a far cry from the past I'm sure. But why the fuck would I go to one in the states where there's a ton of other establishments off base where I'm not paranoid about the SAPR gestapo, some shoe writing my name down for later consumption because they saw me do X, etc. Stop madness like that and the AF may see some revitalized use of the club. But when you castrate the "safety" of the club and make it somewhere where everyone has to closely monitor what they say and do, you drive people away. I'm not saying guys desire to do insane things, but even the slightest misspeak or perceived "bad" action these days could get you in a shitton of trouble. What ever happened to people just leaving if they didn't like something? Instead they just go running to mommy and call foul.

Which is exactly why I'm skeptical this this will stick. Downsizing creates a greater emphasis on the small stuff in lieu of the big stuff. Talk to the old farts who saw what happened after Vietnam - Zero Defects, TQM, etc - or after the Gulf War, or read Gen Brady's / Jumper's guidance on this from just a few years ago. Then ask yourselves, what did my supervisors have to do... What was their requirement? And the answer is plain enough. Until this rests in an AFI, guidance to the boards will only effect things so much. The boards don't strat PRFs at home station. Period. The war on stupidity is just beginning fellas, this is merely a battle (seemingly) won... When implementation gets down to the squadron levels, rejoice. Until then, color me skeptical, no matter what the CSAF says, and despite his best intentions (which I agree with wholeheartedly). Don't get burned in your rush to set fire to your BAC+. Be the best operators and flight commanders, etc, you can be - lead your people, take care of them, guide them, and take care of yourself as well - leaders eat last - just don't go hungry. Chuck Edit - iPad typing

I figure I'm safe unless the next CoS is a MAF guy. And that's coming from a MAF guy.

All is not lost. I have come to learn that "Home of the Fighter Pilot" has been replaced on the Nellis main gate sign. Kudos to whoever had the stones to put that back up there.

Close 'em down. You can hold official events at other venues. For that matter, get rid of all the AF bands too.

The key is the SURF. As long as AAD is a discriminator visible to senior raters it will be used for strats. Period. I just can't see all Wg/CCs saying "on my honor" and not including it somehow in their process.

Props to Welsh for trying. And sure, you can stop your Master's work, until the next COS decides to unmask them months before your Maj/LtCol board. That would never happen, though, right?

M Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

You just defined the American military instrument of power since the Vietnam War. Tough talk, air strikes, carrier strike groups and no boots on the ground - the Persian Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan excepted. In short, a form of air policing (https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/169/36386.html) - except we don't take it to the extreme required for it to be effective. This presidents rhetoric about America receding and the rest of the world stepping up to fill the gap and create lasting peace is terribly flawed and historically uninformed - talk about rose colored glasses. The world will NOT be more peaceful, but we cannot (peace costs $) continue to be the worlds police... Remember the red lines in Syria - these guys currently slaughtering thousands in the march to Baghdad were fighting Asad in Syria a year ago... Maybe the president was right to wait instead of aid and abet Islamist thugs just because Asad is a bad guy. The president is not all at fault. The morons on the right who are screaming for action and blaming the president (a political move to appear strong) are not doing anything to help Americas standing. Everyone needs to eat some fiber and read a fucking history book. Iraq as we know it is going to fall, likely to be separated into three areas between Shiites, Sunis and Kurds. Like much of the rest of the shitholes we've fought in, theses people are not willing to work together, have no national identity and rely on tribal and religious enclaves for safety and leadership. The fact that Americans can't identify the major players or the implications of actions/inaction doesn't make it our situation any easier. I'd start reading up on the rise of regionalism.... the unification of Germany, the Franco-Prussian War, and the lead up to WW1... Regional powers coalescing and coming into conflict on their peripheries... All signs are pointing in a similar direction re: the Middle East / Russia / China. And there is very little we can do about it. Chuck

The club at Vandenberg had a huge turnaround in 2010. They hired a legit outside chef, she came in and cleaned house. Food was great. No more stale potato chips with a "lunch." We actually took people there to eat instead of going downtown. I don't know how it did after hours, because I lived 40 min away. But there were lines out the place for lunch, and no one bitched about the awards luncheons anymore. It's really as easy as getting a professional in there with some pride in their product. And hot chicks.

Hot female bartenders and waitresses would draw people in. If the MSGs truly catered and advertised to 20-30 year olds with concepts such as hot waitresses (e.g. Hooters, Bikinis, etc.), evening base passes for multiple college slut friends, cool bands and free drinks for the ladies from 6-9pm, then it could be epic. Until that happens, I'll be seeing you at the local pub downtown. ...and the drinks and food have to be quality items too, of course.

I grow tired of this new age culture that says we can't call it a Christmas party, have to take cbts on tolerating homosexuality, and trust us to carry gbus/hellfires but not carry a personal firearm. Call me old school, but the Air Force is too pussified for it own good anymore.

In all fairness, people are complaining about minute bullshit like the clubs because the big problems have been discussed ad nauseum with no fixes in sight. The most promising chief of staff in a generation is either unwilling or unable to fix the big issues plaguing this organization. I'm sure he's a fantastic guy to have a beer with, but it seems that he's just another politician manager in a long line of them, albeit one who isn't socially inept and really does give a great speech. Still waiting on that vector from January 2013... This is hardly the first time the lameness of the club has been discussed here. The AF reaps what it sows- it castrated the clubs in a knee-jerk reaction to public scandals, and then acts surprised when most people have zero desire to use it. Combine that with the younger generation of officers' desire to have a distinct work/life separation, and this is what you get. Fuck it, let it die.

Well, my experience at Del Rio didn't follow this. We were told you will do/buy X, Y, and Z (none of these were part of the official graduation) or you will not graduate. This came from leadership (IPs) after the club was telling us what we shall be buying from them and students trying to throw the BS flag.....

Here we go. Because he's not holding the picket lines with the rest of the AF haters, he's a butt-sniffing, ball-washing CCE. I'm sure he's heartbroken that he solidified your reasons for leaving. You must be relieved that some dude on an anonymous internet forum has validated your life altering decision for leaving the AF. My commanders never had any interest in making me their exec. Maybe it's because I lack certain queepy skill sets required of executive officers, maybe it's because I'm too ugly to use as the front man, maybe both. In fact, I'm a pretty average dude, with a career vector that shoots right through the middle of the bell curve, yet I still enjoy the club. It could be better (I long for the days of yore when the local talent was bussed through the front gate and to the front door of the O-club for us to fornicate upon), but the club is still a place where I can tie one on with the bros, have a beer with my boss, and call the shoes out for texting like a$sh0les. Unfortunately, with every pus$y that rebukes the club on trumped up charges like "the food is no good", "the service is lousy" or "I'm too cheap and antisocial to buy a messdress as I'd rather spend Friday nights locked in my masterbatorium", the club looses out on revenue and your bros miss out on your camaraderie. I'm still on the fence regarding staying in beyond my UPT ADCS that expires in a year, but if I get out, it won't be because of crappy food at the club and my dues will be paid through 31 Aug 15.

Maybe if the clubs had decent food and service, and were remotely fun to hang out at, then they wouldn't be in the red and the WG/CC wouldn't be trying to figure out how to keep it open.

Wing exec?

Please tell me you're not serious

While I realize this is a serious topic, does anyone else here the news and instantly think of Archer? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man continues road trip after girlfriend dies in passenger seat I wonder if her name was Edna...

And you, Sir, are a shining example of the reason why I am getting out. It definitely looks like I struck a nerve with you. Thanks for validating further, not that I really needed anymore validation, but I do appreciate it. From your wording, I can only assume you are either management or aspiring to be in management--I hope the kool aid tastes good. I too wish you the very best of luck in your career. May it be filled with multiple 365s, extraordinary PME experiences, never ending CBTs, a few stars, screwing over your people for personal gain, and endless queep piles. And no, that post was not about kids meals, it is about how management tends to waste endless amounts of time on trivial matters that can be handled at much lower levels-if at all... Sure sounds like it El Loco. Duder went full-personal on here...

Someone needs to tell Chattanooga that. They offer 1000 Mbps internet through their electric company for $70 a month.