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The only child abuse needs to be from his dad beating his ass for running his mouth and ruining a good thing.

This thread took entirely too long to devolve into dickmeasuring. You guys need to up your game. Chuck

The fastest formation: Fastest jet and fastest prop fly in formation together. 5 page story: https://allthingsaero.com/military-aviation/aircraft/gallery-world-s-fastest-formation?page=1

TT...having fun with my logic? Is that a joke or are you really that clueless? To answer your question, yes most of what you said two posts ago - I agree with. The 20 YAS option is worthless. Beyond the standard 5-yr option, it amounts to 35K (after taxes) up front plus 8-9K (after taxes) literally 6-9 years from now. Any "logic" arguing that those payouts are make-or-break is a moron. I agree that almost no one gets out at 16-20. Does that mean that the size of the bonus doesn't matter - not at all. Standby for words. What I'd love to see is a sliding scale starting at ~69K/yr for the top 1% of the year group down to zero for the bottom 1%. I'm very cynical, but still 90% serious. Why not pay talent and not pay the slouches? That is what corporate America does, and is exactly the reason why slugs sign the bonus - there is little demand for them in a free market. Yes, i get that this is a pipe dream because the process used to identify the top people needs work. It will never happen. Still, ideally we would pay to retain the good ones and not the bad ones. Ok - reality check. What they can realistically do is offer everyone 50K/yr for 5. They are too reactionary to really be able to target year groups and communities. I also believe out leadership lacks the integrity to admit there is a problem, regardless of the final numbers. They will simply delete some staff gigs and decrease pilot:jet ratios and say there is nothing to see here. Then the guys on the line suffer from even more do-more-with-less BS. It's a self-licking ice cream cone that takes truly dynamic leadership and a paradigm shift to solve. We've yet to see such leadership.

You should have never received the 3 year commitment for a re-qual IMO. I went through two separate re-qual courses and received no extra commitment.

Huggy will be pissed that I told you, but he retired last Friday. The Air Force and the brotherhood will miss him dearly. Good luck my friend, and thanks for your 58 years of service. HAIL DRAGONS! Fini flight: Last landing, STWF...nice.

That's exactly what everyone is doing.

You can't argue with science... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKWmFWRVLlU

Life's tough, wear a helmet.

Dude you are not quick on the uptake. I never said short term incentives don't work, just that 25k/ year isn't enough. No contradiction at all by saying if they double it then it might actually sway people. If they gave me 4 mil one-time I would have stayed in. How's that for a short-term incentive. Dude, nobody is going to say the bonus is bad. We like money. I sure do. You make a big leap from hearing that someone likes the bonus to assuming it swayed them. sqwatch never said it swayed him, you put those words in his mouth. Dude I'm done - this conversation is a waste of time because you twist everything anyone says to support your "if A then B" framework. Newsflash - not a single person has claimed the bonus swayed them yet. Use deductive logic and misquote us all you want, you're still spinning your wheels. NKAWTG - that's cute. Take shots at our range and loiter time all you want, we don't need sophomoric rhyming pats on the back to feel good about ourselves.

Any scenario across the board, give it time, someone will bitch and complain.

So do you really have a fundamental problem with the bonus or is it just you are pissed about 11Ms not having the same financial incentive to stay in that 11Fs have? Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Ugh. - Dude, all I know is I followed the logic of what you said (that nobody is swayed by the bonus) and made the conclusion that the 20 YAS is a mistake that should be corrected. Why throw more money at folks who are going to stay anyway? -- Sqwatch--who initially agreed with you--immediately objected to my actually agreeing with him. Given his immediate objection to the suggestion that Chang & company should get rid of the 20 YAS option (as you indicated, it's useless), the bonus seems to be a big deal to him, if nobody else. -- You subsequently argued that we should offer $250k . . . that we should double the bonuses for everybody (more than is currently being offered to 11Fs), which seems to contradict your assertion that short-term monetary incentives are irrelevant to every pilot's decision on whether to stay or go - You can presume whatever you want about my motivations. You've got me--I care about the 11M community, and oddly enough about tanker dudes. I presume you're more familiar with the F-16 community, and that topics related to fighters are especially interesting to you -- As a tanker dude, I've got a fair idea of what kind of range your MDS has. I would hope you'd be interested, too, in retaining some talent in the tanker community (particularly in the CAOC, which is where plenty of those bonus takers are), as you drill holes in the sky over Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria/Upickastan/wherever we end up next. -- You still refuse to engage with what, in my opinion, is the indefensibility of offering a higher bonus to 11Fs, while refusing to do so for 11Ss and 11Hs (particularly HH-60 guys). How does asking a logical question about this issue equate to my looking out solely for the 11M community? At this point, I'm not bitter, just tired. It seems like we're just talking past each other, anyway. Water's wet, sky's blue, and rated management is totally screwed up. Good night. NKAWTG, TT