Leaderboard

I love the irony of the situation Big Blue finds itself in. For a decade, rated retention was an afterthought; airlines weren't hiring, the economy went south and they enjoyed ~2 years where no pilots could get out. During that timeframe queep mounted as CSS troops were cut and flying hours were slashed. At the tail end of it all they reward the military with pathetic 1.X% raises and lower BAH. Their attempt to recapitalize the fleet (JSF shitshow) is falling squarely on the shoulders of AD troops. Almost as if on cue, the economy finds its footing, airlines start hiring like gangbusters and every ANG/Res unit is looking for good people. There is actual movement on bonuses for technicians and the AGRs will likely partake in whatever boost their AD counterparts get. AD has competition both from airlines and a RC that may have decent bonuses to offer. Sorry, Big Blue - timing is everything.

Also, Snaplock: most who know me know that were I the WG/CC, the support squadrons' duty day would look a lot different. I'm of the Robin Olds school: "If I can send a man to fly combat 24 hours a day, he can get paid 24 hours a day!" 1. I would eliminate all internal training between 0730-1630. ("closed for training") 2. I would mandate at least min manning during all squadron functions. Hell, I might forbid squadron functions 0730-1630. 3. While this might be negotiable, I would mandate some manning from about 0300-2300, with full manning during duty hours. MX dudes are working as long as we are, and they have a right to be supported too. And so do I after flying during a night week. 4. Good cop: in AFSOC, this isn't an issue, but I would force-feed the interfly to the support types and ops types alike. Get these folks seeing what they're supporting, and morale goes up - every time. I've seen it time and time again, across AFSCs - show them, and tell them, about what you do and how their help makes your life easier, and you get the results you want. 5. Bad cop: don't like the increased duty hours? I seriously don't care. Chang, I'm taking a page from your playbook: I can train a new CP in an AFSOC C-130 in an average of 2 years. I can train a new 3-level finance troop in 2 weeks. Guess who I care more about retaining? Especially since you A1 types continue to insist that supplying an endless stream of 3 levels and 25 hour copilots replaces the combat tested Pro Sups, IPs, WOs and others we're hemorrhaging . . .

Been on the road for the last week and enjoying the entertainment on this thread, largely via Chang's bait and all the bites he is getting. Like watching a fishing show where every cast = a strike followed by a dramatic fight to the catch and release. My opinion is that Chang is a FGO on staff and is enjoying his ability to wind up the AF's "one percent" population. (I know the math isn't right, but for the purposes of this post, just go with it). So he gets his cheap shots in, gets so much attention that he self-actualizes and needs a tissue to clean up with, and, not coincidentally, takes a few ideas back to his overlords that this thread generates. As well as serving as a non-attributable arena for some trial balloons - "Hey, how will the plebes react if we stop-loss? Will they go tell Congress or can we get away with it?" "15-19 year ADCS for UPT? Would they preach against it to newbs?" If Big Blue goes stop-loss under the current geo-political situation, i.e., no bigger war or major U.S.-based terror attack like 9/11, the screaming to Congress and the multiple class-action lawsuits that AF will have to answer will approach the ridiculous. Congressman X: "So, CSAF, you have the fewest aircraft in your inventory since pre-WWII, yet you are hundreds of pilots short to fly them. Why? How come the Army and Navy don't have this problem (assuming this is true, I don't know for a fact)? And since we, Congress, haven't declared that we are in a national emergency/voted for such, why are invoking the law we gave you to keep pilots involuntarily? Didn't you just force out a whole bunch recently? Lawsuit A: In that the President hasn't invoked a national emergency and that a stop-loss of any duration or magnitude constitutes a penalty for only a certain group, the AF has caused severe injury and hardship due to its own negligence and stupidity. Or some such legal argument... In A1's terrific solution - make the problem go away until someone else has to deal with it - have they thought through the 2nd and 3rd order effects of stop-loss and indentured servitude-like ADSCs? - As noted, how effective at doing anything other than flying would a stop-loss pilot be? During Madeline Albright's war, I.e., Kosovo, I can assure you my GAS factor was low. Something for the mission and I still ran at the bell. Want some other queep? Sorry, not my problem. And in order to just avoid the dishonorable discharge hoop, the work I will perform will be so sub-standard that you will spend so much time having to re-do it, you can't imagine the ass pain you are about to endure. - So you give a naïve kid who wants to fly a 15-19 year ADSC which he signs because, well, he's naïve. Is he now guaranteed to make at least O-4? Or will you have to ask Congress to modify the laws regarding promotions? - What happens when naïve kid gets cynical and doesn't get promoted? Currently, separation law trumps ADSC regs. - What about the budget effects of this sudden pool of guaranteed O-4s? Only so many FGOs can be on the books. Cut the promotions for non-pilots? Ok, what happens when you run out of MX guys, Cyber guys, etc, etc, etc. Stick a pilot in that billet? How effective will that be? And wouldn't that COA be an own goal since you took your pilot-slave out of the air arena - flying/staff/other directly related jobs - so now you lost both the non-rated expertise in that area plus a pilot out of flying? - This could be just the ticket to get the Warrant Officer/Enlisted pilot track underway. Cuts officer money, avoids the FGO limit. Win/win for the AIr Staff.

BAMF, put down the scotch and sleep it off. I've been there, bro - stop posting until tomorrow and while you're at it, don't text any ex-girlfriends either...

So, first of all I'm not going to bash Obama but I do think that his leadership, policies and direction given to the DOD have helped to create more suck for us. His appointees are the ones running the DOD and the AF. Think about it. Also, many say that the AF has become a social experiment. At least some of that has come from the White House. Concerning QOL. I remember driving to work early every morning as a Lt. I hated the early days but remember being so glad that I was in the AF and didn't go to the airlines like some of my friends. I also remember always thinking that I would do 20 and had no interest in ever going to the airlines. Now I have no desire to do 20 and am frantically combing over my airline apps. I've asked myself why things have changed. It's different for everyone but it really boils down to leadership, the queep and the broken promotion system for me. The AF has been a HUGE benefit for me. I wouldn't change a thing about my decision making. I would not change a thing if I could do it all over again, but I've realized that this isn't worth sticking around for. One of the biggest things that gets me is that I work 12-16 hour days while it seems like a lot of the rest of the base works 0730-1630. They also usually get to break away for lunch and are allotted time for PT. I don't get either. My days are ALWAYS crazy busy and when I have to deal with one of these 0730-1630 workers I ALWAYS get pissed off. It's usually because they will only do what I need Thursdays between 10 and 11. Or, I have to make an appointment to see them a week in advance. Or, THEY decide when they will do the training that I need and the next training that they are conducting is 3 weeks out and in the middle of the day so my squadron has to take me off the schedule for the day. I could go on, and I think we all could, but the thing that sends me through the roof is seeing their work ethic and working conditions. Their building and offices are usually new or newer. Meanwhile, I go back to a shit hole squadron and check the mouse traps to see if we caught the mice that have been running around. Meanwhile the shoe clerks are sitting in nice new leather office chairs and have book cases made of rich mahogany. While, I'm trying to get something done with this person they notice that I'm missing a signature or some other small thing and tell me that they can't do a thing for me until I go run around to get that done. This whole time they seem to be doing virtually nothing and sitting in their chair playing on their iPhone for most of the day. You all have seen this too, right? It's obvious that their work load is minimal compared to the aircrew out there and their offices completely close down for training, while we come in on the weekend to get that stuff done or do it after flying at 2000. Why in the hell can't we assign some of these people back into the flying squadrons to take some of the load off of aircrew? The whole manning in tight everywhere argument is a numbers game in my opinion. It's B.S. A lot of the rest of the AF needs to come spend a week in a flying squadron to see how long our days are and our workload and I think people will understand. It's clear to me that if leadership really cared about retaining the most highly trained members of the AF that have had millions of dollars invested into them then things would not be this way. Instead we worry about making the AF look and feel like a civilian office environment for the non-aircrew. I'm not advocating making everyone else's lives worse, but what I am saying is there are resources out there that could be used to take some of the load off of aircrew and make their quality of life better. But what do I know? Maybe it's right to let people walk away who have $10 million in training and 10 years of experience invested into them. Yeah, take care of the people who's tech school was 6 weeks long. That's how it should be...

Rable rable rable rable rable rable!!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was gonna let this one go, since I think others on here have already rebuked this garbage more eloquently than I ever could, but I just can't. Ummm - he gave you a wall of facts. Furthermore, that you refuse to accept the facts is indicative of your utter failure (inability or ineptitude?) to grasp the reality of the situation before you. Misjudged??? You think??? That was fcking predictable. In fact, it WAS predicted, on this very site. Which, IIRC, you scoffed. Time and time again you are told the ground truth. If not in your staff meetings, at least in this forum. Yet you plow ahead with your useless playbook, hoping that it works. Guess what, it's 4th and long and your playbook is shit. Someone needs to get creative - now. And I'll go ahead and give you another prediction - higher bonuses won't work either. Please. Take your kool-aid somewhere else. Nobody here is drinking it. You claim to be in A1, possibly even at the GO level, and you want to talk about core values? OK, please explain your meaning of integrity. I'd love to hear it, because I certainly can't tell by your policies. Stop loss = a violation of trust and contract = lack of integrity on the part of leadership that callously uses it as a retention tool. Officer first? You bet. All the way until the bitter end of my service obligation. Beyond that, I'm free to do as I see fit. Even if you geniuses decide to hold me beyond my obligation. May have to? This should be where you are investing most of your time finding a solution. You should not be looking at it as an unfortunate compromise required by A1 to ease the situation. It is the answer. We don't want more money. We aren't a bunch of washed up, grumpy old has beens that missed the boat either (as you've alluded to in several other posts.) We are the voice of the pilot force, representative of the majority. And in fact, it seems that several of us that are bitching the loudest on here actually have those opportunities that you value so much in front of us, or have already turned them down, voluntarily. Your interpretation of the situation is skewed by your addiction to the kool aid, brother. Open your eyes. We don't want more pay, we want more freedom to do the job that needs doing. This statement shows your cards. You really are blindly grasping at straws here, but unfortunately for the health of the Air Force, you've picked up the short straw and you think its the long one. You think that more of the same wanton mismanagement and lazy application of the "rule book" is going to solve the problem. News flash - this plan will have a negative effect on morale. At the expense of tooting my own horn here, by and large, the pilot force is the smartest, most capable cross section of personnel that the AF has. This is, in part, due to the very nature of selection for UPT and the weeding out process after. If you think that screwing the next generation will somehow escape the scrutiny of the current crop of pilots, you've (again) sadly misread your target audience. Who do you think is going to lead this next generation of screwed-over young LTs? That's right Einstein, the same people that are currently disgruntled by your abhorrent management policies. Making worse management policies will not help your situation. I think your most grievous error here is interpreting that the disgruntled pilots are simply looking out for #1. Wrong. Most of us are so disgruntled because we believe in the importance of having a strong, sustainable airpower force and we see how damaging your policies are to the bottom line of that force. If you think that continuing the downward trend of flawed management polices will not affect morale, you are clueless. I won't even go into this statement, as it's been thoroughly debunked in the preceding pages of this post. I will say that if you expect us to drink your kool-aid, pass it around, and make your job easier, while you continue to F-it up by the numbers, you are sadly mistaken. It's not on me to lie to those I lead in order to create a positive environment. They'd see right through that BS anyway, and then I'd be part of the problem. It's on you and your peers (if you are who you say you are) to fix the environment so that us front line leaders can have a chance of making it positive again. As Clearedhot so eloquently pointed out - senior leadership and their staffs created this mess, you can't put it on our shoulders. One last point. I don't know if G Chang is a troll or not. Doesn't really matter - the problems discussed on this thread are real, and I have no doubt that real AF leadership follow this forum. Please, for the sake of the future of the AF, read and heed. The pages on this forum ARE the Sq level ground truth you guys claim to be seeking. I've answered your surveys. I've spoken frankly to my boss. I've had these conversations repeatedly with my peers. I've mentored the Capts and Lts. Have some courage and make the necessary course corrections. Admit fault if that's what it takes, but show some of those core values that you love to tout. Integrity, Excellence, Service... For Fuks sake, I need a scotch. ETA: Damn, when did I lose the privilege of dropping F-bombs on this forum? Totally F'd up my post, I'd say.

Dude, are you just a shitty algorithm hosted on AFPC's computer network? Talk like a f-ing person. We (pilots/navs/E flyers, etc.) are not curious, foreign creatures "enamored with flying" that populate your spreadsheets. There are real god damn human beings out there risking their lives to protect our country. Treating people like cogs in a vast faceless machine is a big part of the problem, and you exemplify it perfectly the way you address everyone here on the boards. "We may have to eliminate some of the extraneous additional duties at flying squadrons or authorize more civilians to help. So be it." SO BE IT?? You make it sound like a bad thing...this is one of the many solutions that would alleviate actual pain points for your front-line operators. Stop loss being used means you all f-ed up at your job so badly that you have to basically go to the nuclear option. Congratulations. Edit to add: lol... -1 reputation point from General Chang. I'll take it.

How long have you been at Holloman? They installed the rumble packs in the seats nearly a year ago. The don't work all that great, but at least setting 6 is fun.

SOF truth: Humans over hardware. FHP: AFSOC is doing FAR better than most in the CAF/MAF, but I still have most copilots telling me they fly between 1-2 times A MONTH. And that's after not getting to fly an actual airplane at all at LRAFB. Chang, et al: our proficiency level is terrifying. I'm with Brabus - the "real" IPs, WOs, etc are struggling as much as they can, but there's only so many hours in a day, after HAF and Congress-mandated programs and training. Your chief villain is the lack of support manning, bc the comparative advantage is massive in terms of man hours. I am an AFSOC pilot, and therefore I can do anyone and everyone's jobs (please note the satire, folks) - but my time is spent more productively flying and instructing. Any Fortune 500 company knows this. If you're claiming to fight for us, time to man the F up and speak truth to power. Tell the Congresscritters how useless their latest mandated training, or tell HAF that having 6 separate mandated training syllabi for SAPR is only trivializing the gravity of the issue and wasting precious combat training time. I will speak some heresy: most additional duties are best done - by us. DOT, DOV, DOK - duh. Most are better when we are in charge, albeit with non-aviator SMEs helping. Do you think some finance troop knows what gear to buy for the next deployment? (this is huge in AFSOC.) I've motivated dudes in office drudgery by reminding them that 80% of what we do . . . is for us. It's not a piece of paper, it's a mission, a person, a career, an asset that we have to develop for the future. That having been said, give me more people, more FHP, and more jets. We can fix a lot, but only if They That Are So High stop telling Congress that all is well. P.S. Yeah, I just drank a bunch of whiskey

BAMF, who are you? Every one of your posts is raging against Obama. I suggest you re read our daily complaints and realize that the POTUS has very little to do with our gripes.

Your best bet is to go Guard or Reserve if what you want to do is fly without many of the hassles of AD. It's what I would have done if I had the chance to do it all over again in today's current AF environment. As the other guys have said, there are some redeeming values of being an AF pilot, but be ready for "Needs of the Air Force" and "It's all about timing"

That's it - also analogous to referenced bird in that they stand around squawking while simultaneously dropping turds everywhere

We called them pigeons-you had to throw rocks to get them to fly.

At first I thought this was brilliant, then I realized it was for cats!

You sound like an SOS instructor. And the lethality of the USAF is decreasing every day you fail at retaining experienced pilots while forcing those who are staying to do every job but tactical protecting American and her interests job.

I'm willing to bet he is a jokester Captain somewhere absolutely laughing his ass off at the massive freak outs he can induce.

This cat cracks me up. I have a hard time believing he's not just a troll well versed in pilot aggravation. If he's the real deal we're fvcked like BQzips mom on prom night. As for the RPA bit, some of those non-vol'd there enjoyed it, most didn't. I met some good people there. When I left, fortunate to get back to flying, I kept telling myself that the experience wasn't that bad, it was a great leadership experience and I'm better off for it. After a year I eventually I stopped lying to myself. There comes a point where you can no longer convince yourself Santa is real. My prime years as a slick wing captain were lost inside a GCS and my career growth was 3 years behind my peers. Aside from a property I purchased in Vegas when I moved there, the best thing to come from that assignment was the lesson learned never to sell my freedom to turn down a sh1tty deal. I am your poster-child aviation junky - part of the community that makes for easy recruits near your local ROTC detachment. Combine a young exposure to aviation with some early 2000s patriotism and the result is yours truly. After seeing how awesome I look in a flight suit with my sleeves rolled up, having to repeatedly tell young women that I'm married and having seen the vapes trail off my strakes from an aggressive closed pattern, my kids will undoubtedly want to follow in my footsteps. I'm already thinking about the conversation that I hope will inform them of the unseen surprises that lurk in a bureaucracy - Changs decide your next assignment, chicks don't dig droid operators, you get yelled at if your sleeves aren't around your wrists and Santa is not real.

You are so full of shit. FHPs are NOT healthy, they're terrible. Our jets are broke, B-Course syllabi have been slashed multiple times with too much training kicked to a broken/underfunded CAF (not the FTU bros' fault, it's management's fault) and every year the new guy is less prepared for combat because he gets shafted on quality flying training. Us "old" guys can hang on because we have enough experience to fall back on; luckily when we were young everything hadn't completely imploded yet. I have seen entire squadrons who I would rate as below average - it's not the bros' fault, its the fact the squadron is full of young, inexperienced dudes who are trying their best, but big AF refuses to give them the tools required to succeed. WO's and the couple "real" IPs in the squadron slave to fight the uphill battle and get their guys ready, but even their 75 hr work weeks aren't enough because again, management has taken so much from them in terms of ability to provide adequate training. Those same squadrons are hemorrhaging experience at an astronomical rate for all the reasons mentioned elsewhere. Not an RPA guy, but I think it's fairly safe to say very few of them give a shit about leading the "community of the future." You managers might think that, but it's not true. Home more? Maybe they don't deploy to the extent that many of us do, but they're living in not very desirable locations, many doing a job they were involuntarily forced into, and from what I've read here, they do some fairly rough work schedules. RPAs provide a lot of capability in specific situations, but just because they do doesn't mean you have happy people operating them. These are statements of fact, not emotion. I cannot comprehend why you and other senior leadership refuse to see these simple facts and listen to your people who are the ones in the trenches. You don't like to think so, but the reality is your O-5 and below people out there in the CAF, MAF, AFSOC have much higher SA than you do on the day to day realities. That's not an insult, it's just how it is...some day I might be the old guy sitting somewhere, but if that day comes, I will rely on the guys below me to shoot me straight and provide recommendations...and I won't scoff them. That's a trait of good leadership I have seen growing up in this AF. You guys have a job to do which involves thinking on a strategic level. But it is extremely naive and a complete failure of leadership to ignore everything you get from the tactical level. Your flippant attitude towards anyone "below you" and how "we" could not possibly have any idea on what's good/bad in the AF because we don't have stars or whatever your metric for "credibility," is the primary reason we're all telling you to off and getting out. Many good dudes at the tactical level would stay and help solve the problems, but its clear senior leadership doesn't give a shit and will never listen to us, even when we're screaming the answer in your ear. You're right on one thing, there will most likely be a continuous supply of 20 yrs olds ready to sign anything to fly. But that makes this already hollow force just become worse and worse until some day we just hope we can keep up with the ability of Sudan's AF. Hyperbole a bit, but the point is valid.

This is going to be comical to watch. The view of those like Chang will truly be the downfall of the Air Force. Once the true volunteer aspect leaves with stop-loss or indentured servitude type contracts, the train will come off the tracks. As a red blooded, combat proven American, there's one thing I value more than anything. That's freedom to do what the I want with my life. I gave 13 years of my life to the defense of my nation. I am proud of that, but the moment I felt that was being taken for granted, I stopped playing the game and took my ball elsewhere. My advice to anyone on the fence is to start getting your plan together yesterday. If there is stop-loss, go back to your SERE days of using passive resistance. If I was stop-loss'd, I'd stop doing every single additional duty and focus 100% on flying. I'd call out sick at least once a week. I'd fail every single PT test. Hell, I'd find a way to go DNIF without messing up my airline prospects. I hope it doesn't come to what Chang is proposing, but realize your Sr Leadership, both in Congress and in the Pentagon may have just become your enemy. I thank God every day I was able to get out when I did. I landed on my feet and I know you guys will too.

I think I've posted this story before but not too long ago I was in a meeting when this very subject came up and a then MAJCOM Commander turned to his senior staff and said "Stop Loss is a viable retention tool." What makes the current situation different from past peaks and valleys, the end of this "hiring cycle" could be ten years away...do we really think Congress will allow people to be held hostage for an additional 5-10 years? I can see an argument for a year or two... especially when some soulless mind f@ck like Chang helps build the argument that we are at war with groups like ISIS, but going beyond that has real legal issues. The 15 year commitment won't fix the problem, it still takes time to season guys...it will be interesting to watch from the sidelines as I pray for Chang to get ass cancer.

So what's your plan? Troll college campuses and hope a dark-tinted van of over-sexed bikini clad coeds stops and asks me if I'd be interested in being their "oil boy"

Guys, this is easy from the AF perspective...if we start having a significant long-term problem with retention, we'll stop-loss in the near term and move to 15-yr commitments long term. Take it to the bank. And before you pilots start whining on this forum, you knew this would be a possibility when you signed on the bottom line. The more of your friends that take the bonus, the longer we can put off S.L. and expanded commitments.

Very mature, Colonel. Now that you feel better about yourself, let's discuss facts. A1 misjudged the effects of the 9-yr bonus. I acknowledge that. From the personnel perspective, however, A1 has a specific playbook and specific rules to follow in these scenarios. The AF is desperately trying to get Congress to approve higher bonuses. If successful, this will help slightly with officers on-the-fence. Next, some stop-lossed officers may rebel, but most will do their duty and uphold the core values (all should...we are officers first, as you learned in your schools). We may have to eliminate some of the extraneous additional duties at flying squadrons or authorize more civilians to help. So be it. Finally, a 15- or 20-year ADSC for UPT will have limited effect on the morale of pilots currently in, and the AF will still not have difficulty finding people to sign-up to fly...the novelty of flying never diminishes amongst a population enamored with it. If AF recovers from the pilot shortage down-the-road, A1 can curtail ADSCs. That won't be anytime soon, however, as AF will need to send more current pilots permanently into RPAs for the foreseeable future to meet Army demand for orbits. Pilots- you can help create a positive environment in your squadrons as we move through these difficult times. Emphasize the positives...flying hour programs are healthy, and pilots moved into the RPA community have the opportunity to establish themselves as leaders in the "community of the future," which can be a huge opportunity to excel. Also, RPA operators are home more, per the spreadsheets. Please help your GO leadership, and we will get through this together. Stay positive. You will sleep better tonight.

Ok, a couple of you appear upset, but for the young guys on this forum, I'll state a similar message to my post on the SOS/ACSC board, then pull up my tent stakes on this issue. Our Air Force is honorable, lethal, and excellent. It is an organization that many in society would kill to be a part of. Some members of this forum have thrown that opportunity down the tubes during an emotional event. If you decide to leave, make sure you do it for the right personal reasons. The future opportunities in our AF will be incredible. You will be personally, monetarily, and professionally satisfied and rewarded. Get excited and be a part of it. It's your future.

This is only the first step. If we can get more enlisted RPA pilots to take over all non-combat RPA roles, then permanently reclassify all current RPA pilots into the RPA career field, we will no longer need to pull pilots out of cockpits for RPAs. This would solve rated manning problems faster than any bonus increase (although A1 will continue to pursue that with Congress). Lots of reasons to be positive, people.

Two thumbs up for this selection. He will continue the great works started by Gen Welsh. Get excited; our future is in good hands, Airmen.

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision. You will regret that forever. Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit. Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel. If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans. However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. Be the best and you will rise to the top.