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Bone is probably better at air to air as well

This might help you determine who it is that determines the budget, who determines the National Security Strategy, who declares war, etc. Hint: it isn't all the same office or branch of government. Ultimately, who is in the Oval Office isn't as important as the branch that actually passes laws and spends tax money.

This thread.... It's good to know the one universal in all branches of the military when it comes to aviation is reminding everybody how your selection was the right one and theirs was stupid.

Oh good. This conversation again. Wheeee.

I'd rather have frosted tip gelled hair forced upon me by a bunch of Eagle (F-15C) gaybros than listen to a nav mouthbreathe and ask me to fly every 69 seconds. Single seat all the way, even if it means being a homo Eagle driver. To clarify: I fly the Viper. The math is easy: take the number of ejection seats in your jet, multiplied by the number of engines, and multiply that product by the number of vertical stabs. Anything more than 1 and you're a homo. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

I've never been so ashamed of my post before... Now I read it like "The top 1% of the top 1% gets to fly fighter jets... I want to make it so that EVERYBODY in UPT gets T-38's and goes straight into flying F-22s".... *end of Bernie impersonation*

F-22: - Better at Air-to-Air than the Eagle - More thrust - Less drag - More maneuverable - Better sensors

If you're considering the Mudhen, you should really look into a Bone. Bigger payload, longer ranger, and same maneuverability: )

We took off from Spangdahlem that night.

Guys I found an excellent poem online that might clarify this: Republicans are Red. Democrats are Blue. Neither of them give a fuck about people like You.

Sparkle-- Do you generally have friends spend the night because you get lonely or scarred by yourself? If so, the strike eagle may be for you. Hell, mud pigs may be for you based on user-name alone.

One has a nav, one doesn't....choose wisely.

Likes: Everything Dislikes: Nothing Oh, you're talking about specifics to each. Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing a litany of procedures and coming up with a game plan, then be ready to execute another plan on the fly? When you fuck all that up and merge, do you think you can hang at 9Gs (or 6.9 in the Mudhen) until you fix your problem? If so, you should go air-to-air. Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing threats and weapons effects and planning your target run for best case, then be ready to flex to the backup plan with a secondary or tertiary targeting plan? When everything goes to hell and SAMs start launching, can you threat react, monitor your flight lead, then get back together and hit your target? If so, you should go air-to-ground. Summary: A/A - fly high, turn bad guys in the air into hair teeth and eyeballs. A/G - fly low, turn bad guys on the ground into hair teeth and eyeballs.

This is the best response to the OP's question. Don't worry about the crew aspect, choose the one that suits the mission you want. If you want an A/A mission with an aircraft that excels at that mission, go C model. If you want a dual role aircraft that is designed to excel at A/G, go for the Strike Eagle. The Mudhens can't BFM for shit against the Vipers and Eagles, but the other guys don't get to rage into a threat zone at more than 500 knots, less than 500 feet, blacked out, at night. With more than 1500 Strike Eagle hours, I can count on one hand - make than one finger - the number of WSOs who were talking luggage. They know their role, the crew duties are clearly laid out, and we have a good method for setting those straight who have problems figuring it out.

Fingers cross. Patiently sitting by the phone.

That is one of the scariest things I've read on here. You and Bernie into timeout.

Just more WSO's...

I'm not ashamed for watching the whole thing... School house rock is awesome...

I believe they said that they're heading to Sentry Savannah for their November drill weekend, so not likely. Never hurts to reach out and see, though.

Flying the Raptor, I've never once wished I had A) stayed in the F-15C or 2) had a WSO or iii) flown any other fighter. Having flown with WSOs only in IFF, I never thought to myself, "Man, I really enjoyed flying with that WSO!" Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

I love hearing single seat guys talk about what it is like to fly with a WSO.

He may need his WSO to tell him what was going on

Wrong. If you're gonna throw you're schvance out on the internet, at least have your facts straight, juxtaposed to your sexuality. Ask yourself who was providing SEAD for the first day of Libya and re-assess. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish I had a WSO...said no F-35/22/16/15C/A-10 pilot ever.

The chemical strike Mosul shaping operation could have just as well been done with bombers out of CONUS or strike aircraft based well outside of theatre. Or for that matter non aircraft delivered fires (MLRS/Tomahawk/etc). It didn't require an A specific "all we do is CAS/interdiction" type airplane effects and capes, so it doesn't really move the needle for getting an A-10 specific replacement. Most importantly to the discussion of pushing live feeds... nothing about that strike involved a true dynamic targeting situation where a small element GFC had to make time sensitive decisions to give clearance that could have strategic after effects. There was no threat pressure or a ground element in danger. You don't have troops in maneuver to worry about danger close ranges or flying an ingress to avoid the 60mm mortars GTL. And the entire targeting process was built around getting pattern of life and acceptable CDE for the 3 letter driven strategic mission (whatever the hell that is this week) from you guessed it... ISR. Believe me I'd love to get people the hell out of my cockpit and go back to a system of trust in your crews training to do the right thing. But having participated in the targeting/decision process in a non centcom brush fire war... the decision process is so strategic risk driven over combat needs it's not going away. The danger you guys really risk if you don't get onboard with some of this tech is having what happened to a lot of Apache units in the gap between VUIT2 and MUMT. You get benched for the platform that has a rover code. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WSOs aren't real people. I'd rather have the extra gas.

Aggressiveness is exactly what the GFC and 3 letter agencies driving these COIN wars don't want. It's more important to them to not kill the wrong people or do something with 2nd/3rd order effects than it is to find, identify, and prosecute targets. Tactical patience is the buzz word of the day. Not only that but overreaching the level of approval for "immediate" CAS is just a standard. Do you really think that Infantry Captain on the ground is empowered to make the decision? Short of some they're in the wire!" Battle of Wanat type scenario he/she has to call mom for permission. The second you accept that and can push feed the quicker that process becomes, especially in a War that lacks the constant TOC porn of PGSS balloons those senior commanders grew up depending on to make decisions. Real war, real CAS, real phase lines, real threat... That will not be an issue. But for COIN fight, you're an ISR platform whether you like it or not. Along with that, since we only seem to have more issue getting actual ISR because there are only so many to go around, you increase the legitimacy for the need if this low cost strike aircraft can do that job for the 97% of the time where it's just boring holes in the sky waiting for the 911 call.

Compelling argument... Don't get me wrong. If the choice was proceed with or without SEAD with a Blk 50 squadron ready to fight, the choice is easy. I always wanted the support. Libya circa 2011 illustrated very effective F-16/F-15E SEAD/DEAD integration. Like I said, the bros flying the jet are doing great work. I have no doubt they will continue to do great work in the Viper. With that said, if the Blk 50s aren't there, aren't able to support, or are not in enough quantity to be effective, the war goes on. It can't be a surprise to you that platforms perform deep interdiction/MEZ pen routinely without SEAD support (both in training and with a significant amount of recent historical precendence). Even with it, the F-16 is not the only asset in the inventory to provide that capability. But this thread isn't about how great the F-16 and F-15E were in the past. I'm confident the F-16 will be the next fighter on the chopping block to sacrifice for F-35 production, just like the A-10. The F-15E will not (at least in the near term). I know what I would put on my dream sheet if I was concerned about the next twenty years.

Yeah, MEZ pen probably won't be an issue...I mean, you just avoid the SAMs, right??? I'll stick with my block 50. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

It would bring it inline with the rest of the training bases in that regard though. Scores in T-6's mean precisely zero after Track Select. Clean slate for Phase III. I believe it has been that way for quite a while. That being said, if they were to do that, they should let the studs know when they start T-6's, not afterwards.

I'm currently in the single best job in the USAF where I'm current/qualified in the Eagle and the Viper. Complete disclosure, I was a Strike Eagle baby growing up. I agree completely with a lot of this sentiment. There are some sorties, both training and combat, that I'll never forget because of the leathality present with a formation of F-15Es with sound crew coord. However, having a bad day with a bad WSO/poor crew coord is miserable. The crew construct really is a force multiplier; for the good and the bad. A good crew is way better than the equivalent effort of two people. Having a bad crew day makes me feel like I need more than double the effort just to make ends meet. I wish I could articulate how obvious it is to immediately distinguish the difference between the designed mission set of these two aircraft on your first Viper sortie. The Viper with a GE motor on a cold day truly is a rocket ship. I've taken a single-bag jet on a sub-freezing morning with a GE-100 to FL300 on an unrestricted climb. It's a ton of fun! I've never taken the Viper to combat. Having said that, I'm not sure I would ever want to. The jet is a nightmare from a human factors or avionics perspective. The RADAR is a joke. The ability to utilize sensors is still a slave to a 1970s construct that has been completely debunked and remains a complete liability to the airframe. Many of the current DT efforts are an attempt to bring the jet to a level that is, in many ways, equivalent with F-15E Suite 5, let alone Suite 9. Except for Auto ICAS. I wish the F-15C/D/E could get that, if only for risk reduction. In many ways, the Viper jet is a true testament to the dudes flying the jet. There's a ton of compensation required to employ it effectively, and the bros have done an amazing job over the last 25 years making that jet as lethal as it has been. Having said that, there's a reason the USAF is spending $10B to maintain the F-15 fleet through 2050 and replacing the Viper. Pick the jet you would take to war. That's a pretty easy choice for the current COCOMs. Good luck on your decision.

I went through the same thought process back in UPT, even filled out two dream sheets the day of. Fortunately I'm straight so it was a no-brainer which one to turn in when I had the gun to my head. I cannot imagine anything else at this point. Imagine having a fvcking WSO as your SQ/CC. That's not some kind of hyperbole in an after-school special to scare people away from drinking beer. It really happens!

All of theses questions become much easier to answer/manage if you are first in your class. Dont suck!

I've flown both, and each have their own pros/cons. The Strike Eagle crew can be a great capability enhancer when both pilot and WSO are working well together. Some crews just gelled. Flying in silence and being on the same page was awesome, and reflected on mission success. The flip side is a crew can also easily drain each other's SA and things go terrible. It is also my understanding that the new WSOs showing up from a program with fewer flight hours/requirements, as opposed to the old Navy WSO/NFO program, and are struggling a bit and taking much longer to reach the level of proficiency required to perform. The Viper is awesome, doing everything I used to do and flying the jet at the same time. The same SA draining example mentioned above can still apply, it just moves out to your element/formation level instead of within the cockpit. (experiences have been few and far between) I do miss the big radar and more bombs, but I wouldn't trade it. Call me a wuzzo WSO hater, but single-seat is awesome. Hope that helps, hopefully you have UPT IPs from both communities that you can ask questions as well. Good luck.

"it's pretty easy to figure out which party benefits uses the military for PR purposes more" is more accurate. Republicans lost their way after 9/11 when the party became a platform for businesses to profit through legislation.

As one data point, my T-38 drop had 5/6 fighters...the very next drop had 1/4 fighters. Not a track select, but shows how much the pendulum can swing in a matter of 2-3 weeks between assignment nights. You can't predict, all you can do is work your ass off, have a good attitude, and the rest is luck and timing.

Is it the 187FW? The POC there said 1000-1200 or 1400-COB either day.

You also may want to check out hedonisticsexualdeviantfighterpilot.com for better ideas.

Maybe but for my opinion that approach (restrictive ROE, maybe overly preoccupied with preventing 2/3rd order effects) is not getting us any closer to victory, an acceptable end state, a point where we can call it good, whatever... the problem is that it destroys a drip at a time the enemy's forces not the enemy himself, leaving him to regenerate his attrited forces to fight another day. This approach however is also keeping the shit to shoe level so it is not without some merit, it just doesn't finish the task. Tactical patience seems like dithering. We have to pick a side, arm the F out of them, look the other way when they do unseemly things and just blast through. 2 We're at 60 CAPs and the plan is to go to 90, great. You perform a mission with tactics as part of a strategy to win a war, prosecute a conflict, affect your enemy's behavior, or shape the battlespace; not to do them because that is what we do because that is what we do. The FMV feed has given the illusion of positive action towards victory / an acceptable outcome along with a false sense of control / insight to whatever element is receiving it. We could grow to 1000 CAPs and it would not matter, without the strategy to win or at least get to an acceptable end state, it is holes in the sky followed by whack a mole sometimes. After some X hundreds of good hits, is this really getting us closer to victory? Maybe, but is it fast enough given that militaries are funded by politicians that get swapped out, loose interest, become impatient, don't understand the military situation and might prematurely pull the plug? You bet. Democracies don't fight long frustrating wars / conflicts well usually. They get tired, bored, frustrated and sustaining the political will becomes problematic. We have to be on the march, moving the ball down the field in an easily perceptible manner. Or we have to be mature enough as a country to accept that we are in for probably 20 years of suppressing an insurgency while simultaneously rebuilding a nation that is likely populated by people who DGAF about what we are doing there at best and likely don't actually want us there, not holding breath...

Link takes it site where I have to establish an account. No thanks. If the gist is a 12th century fight to the death vs. "can't we all just get along?," I'm taking a guy who turned millions into billions. Maybe pushing the "button" or the threat thereof is not a bad thing. And married/nailed a serious string of 10s. Keys to the world: 1) Brute force 2) hot chicks 3)money