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Mr. Cameltactics, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Back to the topic at hand... I spent over 1/3 of my career in the Weapon School and from the instant I walked through the door at Nellis one thing was blatantly obvious, Albino Drivers are complete and utter assholes (including my old man who was one, but of course excluding BeerMan), that being said they are "our assholes" and I do not want cross the fence without those inglorious bastards.

As a Viper dude, this is a terrible idea for more reasons than I'll get into.

It's hard to convince someone you're broke when you're bankrolling shit like this:

"Two" I've pontificated on this before, we have been saddled with bills that enable other services (Space, RPA, Cyber), without an increased piece of the DoD pork pie. The A-10 fiasco had several motivators but the biggest was dollars and cents. I was in the room for some of these discussions with OSD and SECDEF and they went like this: SECAF/CSAF - "We need more Money" SECDEF - "No, execute within existing resources" SECAF/CSAF - "Copy Boss, We have a Title X responsibility to provide these core capabilities so we are going to eliminate capability A to pay the bills" SECDEF - "No, Service X needs that capability, execute within existing resources" SECAF/CSAF - "Copy Boss, We are going to eliminate capability B to pay the bills" SECDEF - "No, Service X needs that capability, execute within existing resources, and here is a new bill." SECAF/CSAF - "Copy Boss, We are going to eliminate capability C, D, X, and Z to pay the bills" SECDEF - "No, Service X needs capability C, D, X and Congress has a special interest in Z, execute within existing resources and here is a new bill." SECAF/CSAF - "Copy Boss, The only option left on the table that pays the bill is to eliminate the A-10." SECDEF - "Ok." Congress - "Not happening, and we direct you to ramp up F-35 production, here is the bill." Until SECAF/CSAF fall on their sword in a very public manner we will continue to see issues like this.

5th gen isn't bankrupting us Clark. Massive recap combined with expanding missions are what's bankrupting us. We're not just buying 5th gen fighters, we're recapping most everything both simultaneously and at the same time...F-35, B-21, KC-46, T-X, CRH, plus looking to "re-host" capes like JSTARS, EC-130, maybe AWACS, etc. We're recapping all of that now because we stiffarmed it for far too long and now we can't push it off any longer. Now throw in the rising emphasis on space and cyber. Do you have any idea how much it costs just to launch a satellite, let alone design/build/operate? The numbers are staggering. And they want tons more money too. F-35 is about $95M right now...still at low rate production prices so that will continue to fall. Your suggested "significantly improved" 4th gen concept would easily be $80M. Easily. Hell, the POS Gripen brought up earlier in this thread is $60+. And it's useless. SECDEF Gates once gave a speech in which he highlighted that America has 11 carriers and the next closest nation has 1. It was a ing useless comparison and embarrassing for our boss to make. Unless we plan to refight Midway with carrier vs carrier battles. We fight away games. That's what we do. Sometimes that means we have to bring our runways with us. The numbers of enemy carriers have nothing to do with the numbers we need. Just as the commie mix of 5th/4th gen has nothing to do with the mix we need on our side. But you're absolutely right. We can't afford to buy everything high end. But don't get sucked in to uninformed arguments that a high-low mix weighted low will work for us. Because in case I didn't mention it, we fight away games. In many potential fights, there won't be enough runways in the AOR for us to park hoards of airplanes and even if there were, we would not have enough tankers to gas them up. Each airplane has to be a "force multiplier". I hate that phrase but it's true. We could be 2/4 v lots and we'll be dodging sophisticated air defenses. Every sortie has to count. If you don't understand how 4th gen has limited game in many realistic scenarios, you are behind the curve. To paraphrase Mobile Holmes, If we're not going to have an Air Force that can hold targets at risk anywhere on the globe, then why have an Air Force at all? That's our job. We need the tools to do that. Those tools are expensive but they can be applied to lower end fights even though it's not ideal. The reverse cannot be said for 4th gen in the same way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah but in here, I can get you cigarettes. On the outside, I'm some washed up G-suit wearing has been. :D Life is simpler in Shawshank, never mind we men may find ourselves a bit, 'institutionalized'..

34:20, 55:20, and 1:06:30

That's unfortunate this picture was painted for you. Recognize you're likely talking to some very jaded fighter pilots at a UPT base who feel screwed over because they're one of the few 11Fs at UPT while a large portion of their bros are still raging in fighters on their 2nd or 3rd CAF assignment (and there certainly is valid reason for why that is) . I recommend you take their views with a very large grain of salt. I also say this as a warning to any other UPT studs or prospective ones out there reading this. That said, realize a few things you described above (high deployment rate, getting shafted by the AD, etc.) is common across all aircraft. The fighter or heavy worlds do not have that market cornered...the AD will fuck everyone over equally for the most part. FWIW, my heavy friends have spent significantly more time away from home than I have...as a general statement. They may not do as many 6 month deployments, but they're routinely on the road 200+ days/yr. Maybe that's not true every single year over the past decade, but it certainly is true for a large chunk of that period...at least amongst some friends I keep in touch with who fly anything from -17s to KC-10s. Of course basing, timing, etc. all drive flexing in said numbers, but the point is I am home more as a fighter guy on average than my peers in several other communities. Lastly, the lifestyle/job is fucking awesome, and that's why I'm going to continue to do it. The AD is the problem and what makes life/work suck, it has nothing to do with community type. In my opinion of course.

Just realize you might be MORE than excited after a dozen deployments, a year of school and two years of staff that you'd do anything to get back to that...literally anything. Be careful what you wish for down the line, those three years combined are enough to make anybody want to suck start a 12-gauge...unless you're ONE of those people. AND yes I do mean YOU people. "Counting down my 13 months to go" Cooter

Dude, this is a great time to not pass up the opportunity...

Excellent piano burn to honor Andy, Kenny and Drew last night. Thanks to the squadron for organizing and to the city for letting us do it.

Spending my spare time waiting in the pharmacy and counting down to 1 April so I can bum-rush the Commisary and Class VI.

You're not from around here, are ya?

Holy sh!t, we really are going to have to learn the same lessons 2 or 3 times...

Because you have no clue

Better than talking about Masters degrees, which was standard at the FTU in the 2012-2014 timeframe. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want us to follow their playbook, then clearly you must be suggesting we invest in huge numbers of modern, mobile double-digit type SAM systems that we can overlap into a giant super mez to protect our forces. Does that mean we have to begin any future conflict with a massive land invasion to take all the ground we'll need to set up our SAMs on their dirt so we can execute IAW their playbook? Innovative idea. We'll also have to secure large numbers of their airfields to operate our hoards of non-5th gen fighters IAW their playbook. Or maybe the commie playbooks are different than ours for more complex reasons than just budget. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What a lot of people -- apparently yourself included -- are missing is that the letter was "fighter standard" straight-talk, despite what Killer's public response to it was. As a fellow Strike Eagle dude when this all went down, I can tell you that 99% of the bro network thought Toro's reply was right-on, because that's how we talk to each other and how we keep each other on the straight-and-narrow when we stray outside what is acceptable behavior. So, it is no surprise to me that Toro made O-5, and had a fine career afterward, because he's a damn good officer, aviator, and instructor, and the vast majority of his peers and leaders knew that, too...as well as not thinking the email was some wildly-offensive douchey move.

What if I told you gay eagle dudes are now gay raptor dudes. (Keanu contemplation image)

Looks like the cop couldn't wipe the smile off his face as he was talking to the reporter. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

$15K/year (9.3 after tax) for 12B...I don't think I'll take it. Sounds like a guaranteed way to catch a 365 to run a post office in Kabul. I can drive for Uber at night and make more than that. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

So let me get this straight... The suggestion is that we should invoke the ghost of John Boyd to buy a bunch of Gripens, which most people view as a complete POS, but it will be better because we'll buy it without a (big) radar. And since they have no/small radar, they won't be as hot so enemy IR sensors won't see them as well. And without a (big) radar they can have a smaller nose which of course makes them harder to see on enemy radar. It's RCS will even be smaller than an f-16 even though it already has a tiny nose and tiny radar. To make them useful as combat airplanes, we'll still have to hang a bunch of external pylons and missiles and shit on them which reflect RF energy, but it's okay...because it won't be as hot without a radar. Then it's one tiny motor will let it supercruise for long periods of time, despite the drag of hanging a bunch of shit under its tiny wings. Which is awesome because supercruise lets you surprise the enemy even though they see you on radar. Because you're going wicked fast. But that's okay because magically it will never get very hot because even though it's blasting through the air with a hot motor it doesn't have a (big) radar. So that means they won't find you as easily with an IRST. Even though they see you on radar. And it will have fantastic range because it won't have a (big) radar so the gripen's already tiny, pointy nose can be tinier and pointier because that's where all the drag comes from. And heat. And RCS. And the lack of radar will make it super cheap. To make up for that we'll embed some wicked awesome magic sensors in the wings but they won't cost very much of course because it's not a big radar. And radar is bad. Because it's hot. And because it won't have a radar, the price will somehow go down by $20 million enabling us to buy a few more of them so we have enough to get shot down because an attrition game plan aligns perfectly with our modern political will to accept huge losses. But that's okay because we can turn more sorties with the ones we have left so pilots can fly more so we'll retain more pilots. The ones that are still alive anyway. Did I get that about right? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm...you say JQP only told one side of the story just to generate traffic? You say he doesn't care about the truth? . . . . SHOCKING.

In court? LOL. Dude this is the military...it's called an order, and it can be a lot worse, even here stateside. Having seen several of these memos written for similar issues, this one still allows for plenty of leeway, and isn't written to "get people". As long as you aren't sending out the invite via a .mil address, you should be fine. If morale drops it speaks volumes for the CGO mafia there than it does for the leadership. Coordinate house parties and make sure people don't drink and drive. Socialize. Have fun. It's really easy. One day you will look back on these days and wonder why you spent so much time getting your panties in a wad over the most minor of inconveniences. His mission is to produce pilots for the air force, and by the sounds of it people are fucking with the mission. Your mission is to get you and your bros through UPT with a clean record. Do your job.

In the airlines and other civilian jobs... Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Yep. Hence why when VSP was offered, under compensated pilots tried to leave while overpaid shoe clerks wanted to stay. I make plenty of money as an O-5 on the bonus..point being that the fact that my flight pay hasn't been updated in 15+ years shows me the USAF doesn't think I require that sort of attention hence, where it values me. I see airlines upping salaries and actively competing for skills such as mine makes me want to work somewhere I'm appreciated. What's my motivation to work more hours, get paid the same with less stability for my family? When I hear stories from friends of working 16 days a month for the same pay, living where I want, no work outside flying....you'd better bring some more incentives to the table. Supply and demand. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Are they? I didn't get a DP because the people I was stratified against were the DO of the SFS squadron and a flight commander with 200 people reporting to him in CE. It would be in our favor if boards actually cared about combat time or flying hours, but what they seem to care about is exec time and SOS DG.

Agree with this sentiment. Why should it be assumed that the AF can't compete financially with airline salaries? Given the relatively small percentage of mil personnel that are pilots, it would seem that even huge bonuses should constitute a relatively small percentage of DOD $. Take a look at some of the unique medical bonuses and then ask yourself why the AF/DOD/Congress refuses to entertain the idea that its pilot force is as worthy of receiving competitive compensation. Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network Forums

Predators.

Irresponsible people foster bad situations which can definitely affect future generations. However, to ascribe the problem to alcohol is the same logical fallacy that attributes violence to guns. It's not the guns or the alcohol, it's the person. Period. Blaming it on anything else is just a way to try to find an excuse for the irresponsible person. That's exactly what CAUSES me to drink.

But they would atleast look fabulous doing it.

Martha McSally? First American Woman to fly in combat, flew the hog.