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Correct. I'm purely an AETC instructor and Recce guy. When I was teaching UPT studs, we weren't teaching them to be "fighter pilots" in 4th and 5th generation fighters. We were giving them the foundation that would bring them success in their follow-on assignment... whether it was a 4+ gen fighter... or a B-1, B-52... or as a FAIP. Our goal was to get them to earn their wings. Not to be a dick, but it seems you don't have 7 years in AETC, 4000 hours in the T-38, a solid understanding of what the UPT syllabus is supposed to do, and how to execute it with a 22 year old with less than 100 hours of flying time when you get him. When teaching said 22 year old how to fly the T-38 in formation, we worked on basic station keeping, the rock-bottom-basics of maneuvering, and a myriad of other basic tasks that would have you rolling your eyes in boredom. But those building blocks are what the CAF has asked AETC to give them in the product that we graduate. Stanley understands that when he parks the throttle(s) in the northwest quadrant, the fuel flow goes up. When he becomes your FTU student or MQ wingman, you can emphasize just how much he actually loses in his afterburning fighter. In UPT, we are also unable to teach him about 20 mile tactical spread using a data link. Or anything that has to do with using a radar. YOU will have to do that. I'm busy teaching him how to put the thing-on-the-thing-on-the-thing; do a loop; master a 30 knot rejoin; have the SA to monitor his jet; and... yes... do Ops Checks. You see, those Ops Checks are a building block item, and the FTU will no doubt add more to that regimen of discipline. As BeerMan says, we don't use the afterburner much in UPT. And certainly not enough to make a difference in their follow-on FTU performance... no matter if it is a fighter, attack, or bomber platform. I have no idea how you derive that the fact we have an AB in the T-38 changes the quality of the UPT graduate. But let's say the T-50 gets selected as our follow-on trainer: do you think the UPT syllabus will have them tapping burner regularly because they need 17,000 lbs of thrust on a student sortie? One final point. The French fly the Rafale, the Brits fly the Typhoon, and the Canadians and Aussies fly the Hornet. None of them use an AB-equipped aircraft in their UPT syllabus. Somehow, they manage to make it work. I'm thinking that, if DoD gives us a great trainer with no AB, we will do just fine.

If they can put Army Rotary Wing in the airspace, they can put a low tech CAS solution in the airspace. And we did....been there, got the T-shirt. Put CAP and SEAD in the air and tell the people that might make things complicated “go ahead bro... we love proving just how good AMRAAM and HARM are.” The authors point reads like an advertisement for more 5th gen solutions to A-10/U-28/Predator problems. We don’t all need to be contingency capable for the knock down fight with the Russians. There was a reason for the Hi-Low mix, and this makes it out like we will completely ignore the Hi part of the equation which when you look at how we supported Raptor and Lightning while wholesale abandoning stuff the 4.5 gen fighters need like the loss of Raven, Weasel, etc we did exactly the opposite.

T-X compliant retrofit to the Cessna SuperCitation, I mean Airland Scorpion, is not even in the T-X running anymore. So it's My money is Lockmart gets the contract, though in an aggregate view I think the Leonardo DRS M-346 variant (T-100) offering is probably the most balanced option out there that meets the criteria. Current production, ground training systems as well, Israelis currently use it successfully to follow on into the F-35. I really don't know the reason Raytheon backed out of the partnership. Something tells me they probably knew something about LockMart that Leonardo chose to gamble with anyways.

HA! You should know better. The guys who account for 15% of pilot production will ALWAYS be the priority.

I just don't understand the scorpion love, you guys getting paid? It looks underpowered (from reading the specs, A-10 sort of power) and just butt ugly. If we are going to train the next gen of fighter pilots, we need something that will blow the doors down when you go AB.

A colleague who is F22 pilot for the Virginia ANG had honor of flying a Phantom at Eglin. He flew the aircraft we had at the reunion. Here is the F-22 pilot’s thoughts on flying the F-4: I flew your jet a couple days ago (see attached). I had a little trouble getting the engines started, so I climbed out and shoveled some more coal in the back; after that she fired right up. Ground ops were uneventful, although I couldn’t figure out why the cockpit smelled like body odor, Jack Daniels and cigars…and that was BEFORE I got in it! By the way, what’s with the no slip crap on top of the intakes, it’s like you have permanent icing conditions due to that spray on rhino truck bed liner on top of the aircraft. It’s no wonder you needed so much coal (I mean thrust) to get airborne. Take off scared the sh*t out of me. I lit the burners at brick one and 2 miles and 45 minutes later we were ready to rotate. After barely clearing the tree tops, the gear came up and I climbed away at a VERY impressive 2 degrees nose high. In case you don’t remember, “Trim” is your friend in the F-4 (pretty sure it’s also a good friend on the ground too). Once I got her up to speed and a moderate altitude, we were ready for the G-Ex. Two G-turn’s later and I’m sinking like a rock…the F-4’s energy seems to bleed like Holyfield’s ear in the Tyson fight! After the G-Ex it was time to do a little Advanced Handling Characteristics (AHC) and by “advanced handling” I mean the same crap the Wright Brothers were doing back in 1903…just trying to keep it airborne. The jet flies much like my old man’s station wagon used to drive…You turn the wheel (push the stick) a few inches and nothing happens, then all of a sudden the steering kicks in, inertia takes over, and all HELL breaks loose! You’re pretty much along for the ride at that point and only gravity has a real say in your lift vector placement. “Checking 6” was really quite easy…. because you CAN’T! Scratch that off the list of “Sh*t I need to do to keep myself alive in combat today”. Breathing, however, was surprisingly easy in the F-4 when compared to that of the F-22 (thank you Lockheed)…LOX works, who knew! I think I may have burned my legs a bit from the steam pouring out from behind the gauges. Where are my 6 mini-flat screen TV’s, I’m lost without my HD jet displays (editors note: actually, I’m an analog guy stuck in a digital world too…I really do like the “steam driven” gauges). After the AHC, I decided to take her up high and do a supersonic MACH run, and by “high” I mean “where never lark nor even eagle flew”; but not much higher, a foot or two maybe. I mean, we weren’t up there high-fiving Jesus like we do in the Raptor, but it was respectable. It only took me the width of the Gulf of Mexico to get the thing turned around while above the Mach. After the Mach run we dropped to the deck and did 600 kts at 500’; a ratllin’ and shakin’ we will go…. I though all the rivets were going to pop out. Reference previous station wagon analogy! Very quickly we were out of gas and headed home. As I brought the jet up initial, I couldn’t help but think that the boys who took this thing into combat had to have some pretty big brass you know whats! My first F-4 landing was a little rough; sub-standard really by Air Force measure… but apparently “best seen to date” according to the Navy guys. Did you know that there’s no such thing as an aerobrake in the F-4? As soon as the main gear touches down, the nose comes slamming down to the runway with all the force of a meteor hitting the earth….I guess the F-4 aerobrake technique is to dissipate energy via denting the runway. Despite an apparently “decent” landing, stopping was a whole different problem. I reached down and pulled the handle to deploy the drogue chute…at which point a large solid mass of canvas, 550 cord, metal weights and cables fell out and began bouncing down the runway; chasing me like a lost puppy and FOD’ing out the whole runway. Perfect. I mashed down on the breaks and I’m pretty sure at this point the jet just started laughing at me. Why didn’t you warn me that I needed a shuttle landing strip to get this damn thing stopped? All kidding aside, VERY COOL jet! Must have been a kick to fly back when you were in Vietnam! Just kidding!

Your lobbying for the scorpion makes even less sense when you’re backing it up with that data.

Sims NEVER are a suitable substitute for the airplane. Even if they simulated the handling of the airplane EXACTLY, nothing can simulate the environment properly. You simply can't simulate a 12 jet overhead pattern, or getting vectored off a STAR going into a Class B primary in the WX. That's where you build airmanship. Talk to any airline guy. Those are some of the best sims in the business and I've never heard any airline guy describe their sims in much more favorable terms than we describe ours. They're good procedural trainers and will get you ~80% there, but it's that last 20% that makes the difference between knowing what you're doing and just hoping you don't get an opportunity to show what you don't know.

Right! If you really think about it, 95% of the conversations here could be funneled into the WTF section. It's all a band aid. The new IFF will go in the same place as the old IFF, so I'm sure all that water that comes out of the air vent won't be a problem at all... And yeah ADAIR is the big driver for the T-38A in ACC as they have most of the jets. They don't have any interest in the C model mostly because of the PMP mod. Worse performance in the airspace, shorter sortie duration. What they really want is more A models until T-X or ADAIR-X or whatever can replace it. Basically zero chance of PMPing the remaining A/B models. I would think a low cost avionics upgrade using COTS products would be a drop in the bucket and a no brainer. Hell just steal what NASA already did, they've even offered up all their schematics to get the job done. I guess for now we have to be happy with the "Dual UHF upgrade"...if you can call it an upgrade. More like a Radio Shack weekend project. I want ForeFlight...but...I want more features and integration that are tactically useful. ForeFlight is great, but their biggest customer is civilian and commercial aviation. They are responsive to military needs but it's not their priority. We get a great product for flying from A to B, but it COULD be a game changer if we could meld it with tactical overlays. The interface, charting and overlays on ForeFlight is first rate, now imagine being able to lay down threats, blue force tracker, kill boxes, targeting coords/imagery, whatever you want. If we could have a MIL ForeFlight product that adapts and gets better at the rate the commercial app does but feature wise is catered to Military, capable of going classified and all that, you'd have an awesome tool. Instead of throwing money at something like Aero App how about not re-inventing the wheel and work out a contract with the best COTS product which is ForeFlight. The speed, innovation, adaptability of a commercial product tailored to meet operational and security needs of the military. Maybe it's a pipe dream but if I was king, that's what I would do. Yeah there's a new INS and new IFF on the horizon for the deuce, not sure about meeting the 2020 deadline though. The T-38A is actually not projected to meet the 2020 mandate either. I believe the exact quote was "We hope they'll come through with a waiver" Hope is always a great strategy.

Disagree. We're seeing the fruits of that bear out with the T-1 syllabus being reduced. FTUs are reporting an overall drop in ability of current T-1 products due to the lack of flight time they're getting. I'll agree that the type of aircraft and even the type of flying isn't super important, but flight time in and of itself is precious when it comes to building the required proficiency. T-1 mission fam is of debatable validity, but losing those 16 hours of flight time is a big hit.

Huggy is 100% correct...many people have successfully flown AB fighters having never been in an AB trainer. Some foreign F-35 IPs have never touched an AB until the F-35 TX and they can manage fine A lot of people are holding onto the past because they want to do things the way it’s always been done. The USAF wastes a ton of time and resources training the old way for things that statistically won’t happen in future combat. I don’t want to piss on specific airframes here but there are entire communities (US and allies) that don’t realize they are backup to backup in the A/A realm but they spend 69%+ of their resources training to it.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s an easy item to cover in the brief - “Don’t use your ing left hand to fix your position.” And they’re pretty decent about it. Sure, they’re always 800-1,000 lbs below lead, but that’s more on account of sawing the throttle throughout all phases of flight. The Navy has 10 or 15 tacform flights in the T-45 devoted solely to... Tacform. The geometry is the same in the Hornet.

Because the follow on fighters do, and one needs to mind afterburner fuel consumption for the overall plan. Will I see I should read before I post.

Well I suppose the U-2 is ok, as long as it is "allowed" to transit through it. Still don't understand why the military has to beg for waivers from the FAA nerdery.

If you want a gold-plated trainer, then just say so. But do you need it to get your wings? Many ways to skin the cat. I don't know much about how the Israelis run their UPT syllabus... but maybe we should take a hard look at some of their methods and ideas.

Why insist on an afterburner? How about simply some performance metrics? I've got 13 hours in the Alpha Jet, and it out performs the T-38... with no burner.

Word. So here's another story for ya. So there I was as an attached flyer, watching the flt/cc give the cats the formal release spiel. Some shit went down in San Antone I wasn't privy to the weekend prior, and they got straight up Shawshank'd into "flight room CAP". Nobody goes anywhere without an alibi, and pack a lunch. So fast forward to the next day right around 1100ish and I'm about to brief my kid when I see the flt/cc go over to a couple of studs motioning and arguing with Prince S. on the center table: flt/cc: "Where you think you're going man?" Pr. S: "Uh, Silver Wings zzir" flt/cc: "No you're not, what did I tell all of you yesterday about bringing in lunch with ya?" Pr. S: "Oh yes zzir, but zzir, you see...I don't have a wife, so I don't have anybody to make me lunch...." The collective room: I had to bury my face to contain my laughing outburst. I'll never forget the pregnant pause from the flt/cc. Truly didn't see it coming. It was truly a #thuglife moment, and the sincerity and nonchalance with which he said that was Epic... and the day I realized this goddamn place had jumped the shark. Fast forward more years than I care to remember or admit to, and I feel like the Houston WTF reporter. 50% of my daily grind is spent on this ME nonsense, but somehow we're all tapped out of 38 domestic production up in here though, but DTS ain't gonna unfornicate itself either. And now this mickey mouse business about zero-to-hero? Holy Mary and Joseph on a donkey. Like the man said:

BTW Prince Saleem needs more cigarette breaks and 12 more 87 rides. He's on the 2 year UPT program. Also he won't make formal brief Monday because he's got some Tinder dates in Dallas on Sunday and he doesn't want to drive his Maserati back in the dark. He may make 3rd go if Allah wills it. As-salamu alaykamu vanilla face.

Since when has the AF cared about later?

That’s the quintessential SIIC picture, if I’ve seen one. Him him.

Attention any lurking senior leaders: get your shit together, go to congress, and stand on their desks until they give you $600m annually for aircrew bonuses. That's $100k more for 6k dudes. All of the harebrained ideas above will cost you way more than that; $600m is only enough to get 600 unqualified wingmen/copilots vs getting thousands of experienced guys to stay. Dont make this hard.

Update: I was hired by my #1 unit. Now my package is going to be sent to the next AFRC board in January. Any tips would be helpful with that. Thank you.

https://www.funker530.com/skypenis-drawn/ Their reaction is priceless. And probably exactly like everyone else’s.

Gotta do a full penetration afterwards.

Lotsa hate from these boyos...

Yeah, but the Packers are on this Sunday.