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It’s like PCS’s or deployments, you are probably the first from that base. So you will have to bear with them as they figure it out

I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable. Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions. Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward. I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore. I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

I say we meet for Duck’s separation party and let a super drinkoff tournament ensue until no one remembers who won and we have a good time.

Cheer up...you guys still do a terrific airshow plus with the QF program you’ve exceeded all expectations.

That's as close to smiling as I've ever seen that man, except right before he hooked me as student.

Valid on all accounts and I appreciate Beerman and Helodudes points. I would have paid to get out of the AF. What threw me for a loop was when I called to sign my refusal of my continuation paperwork and was told I was not being continued. My Commander then talked to me about IVSP and I sought out opinions on here. Bad wording on my part and I found it funny when some people who were not even involved in the conversation started getting pissy. One day I would like to tell anyone on here who is interested my full story and how/why I did what I did. I am glad it worked out and I have 100% thanks to BO. People reached out to provide advice on talking to commanders to DNP letters, etc. This place is special and is an invaluable asset for people trying to get honest, unfiltered advice for their career. Thanks guys.

This crap right here makes me feel like I'm arguing with my 15 year old. Don't like what you're hearing, just say, "you don't get it!". I now remember why I stopped coming on here for a few years. A few of you think you're the only ones who get it. Couldn't see the forest for the trees... Duck, glad you're getting what you want.

Reenlistment bonuses are going to be astronomical in the Space Corps

The best part of being an aviator is the squadron life. I heard it described once as like being in a motorcycle gang, but your mom is proud of you. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Whatever you fly is the best airplane in the Air Force.

"Irrelevant"? That's BS--according to US Code: "(3) Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), an officer discharged under any provision of chapter 36 of this title for twice failing of selection for promotion to the next higher grade is not entitled to separation pay under this section if either (or both) of those failures of selection for promotion was by the action of a selection board to which the officer submitted a request in writing not to be selected for promotion or who otherwise directly caused his nonselection through written communication to the Board under section 614(b) of this title." So it's up to the AF to make that decision, but what leads to the separation is definitely not "irrelevant". I am pretty ignorant as to how the end process works, so I'll default to your knowledge on the process and if you read my earlier post, I agreed that it is up to the AF to figure out their own process. But when making a purchase and the cashier gives me back more money than I think is warranted, I at least ask the question as to whether or not the amount is correct...if the cashier responds yes, then I say ok and take the additional money.

I’m a pilot, I get it. Agreed, there are mostly valid complaints here. I’m failing how people, pilots as you’ve pointed out who are supposed to be really smart, are failing to put this together. Ignore his backstory for a moment. He came on here and literally used the words “trick the AF” into paying him $69K. You just pointed out that his intentions this whole time were to successfully separate from the AF. That $69K is for being involuntarily separated unless I’m mistaken. If so, my bad. In what world is it ethical and of sound integrity to attempt to get something you are not entitled to? Again, if he said it all tongue in cheek, my bad. I apologize if I’m coming off holier than thou, but in my squadron, I wouldn’t be too happy if one of my guys attempted this. It’s just kind of sad is all. We complain about senior leadership, and rightly so, but this is not cool. Vote with your feet, don’t attempt to screw the AF on the way out. You just make it more difficult on your bros when you leave. This is a pointless conversation. The AF is going to get its pound of flesh regardless. Get yours, ethically, when and where you can.

Your question came off like you were judging someone for asking if they receive per diem on a on a TDY. There is no trickery here, it’s either you do, or certain parameters mean you don’t. It’s not up to the member to decide. In fact, this goes one step further because AFPC does the travel voucher. Edit: According to the bureaucracy, we are the victims here, being separated against our will. The system views us in the same boat as those are are RIFd, and certain benefits come with that

Cool, but I fail to see how your post disproves the fact that he said he was trying to trick the AF out of money. Maybe you weren't talking to me. Again, if he wasn't trying to do anything like that, then he should be able to ignore my ignorant statement with no issues. As should everyone else.

Please, enlighten me. My skin is thick enough for whatever you've got. I've been around long enough to stand up to some ridiculous internet tough guys. Once again, if I'm wrong, I'll own it. Doesn't change what he said. If what he said was all tongue in cheek, well, can't blame people for not seeing that on the interwebs. Saying you want to "trick" the AF into money is pretty cut and dry. I didn't Wade into his past service, in fact, I thanked him for it, so way to go there. Believe it or not you can throw away years of honorable service with one bad decision.

I’m sorry guys, I didn’t mean to start an argument or get anyone indicted in federal court. I was merely asking if I was eligible and if there was a way to press to test on that eligibility. From what it sounds, I will find out with ZERO interaction on my part. Furthermore, I expect to retire in the ANG so if somehow I do get $$$ I’m gonna end up paying it back. Thanks to those of you who helped.

Because you assume he knows for sure that he isn’t eligible. Even when he tells you straight up he doesn’t know. How is that fraud? People like you who make all encompassing assumptions of what’s wrong with the process are part of what’s wrong with the AF. Keep it up. You’ll go far by today’s general standards.

He’s not committing fraud if he applies for something he isn’t 100% sure that he is or isn’t eligible for. Dramatic much?

I was pretty good at Halo back in college.

Duck, any thoughts to join the space force? you could rise up the reserve ranks pretty quickly.

In war on ‘queep,’ Air Force aims to give squadron commanders new weapons https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/06/18/in-war-on-queep-air-force-aims-to-give-squadron-commanders-new-weapons/ Queep example - WG/CC has every officer on the entire base fill out a court member data form. Who has the most officers? Flying squadrons. This WG/CC made a tough decision and probably loses sleep over queep. Definitely 2 star material for sure. How about a software program for JA to pull SURF and ribbon data into a format specifically for them? So I don't have to waste time filling this sh...t out. Pilots, you can find the exit doors to your left and right, just follow the emergency lighting. Please put your masks on first before helping any of the Lts. Your seat cushion can be utilized as a floatation device if you want to float away from this constant BS!

Yeah, except that’s not what the reg says. You can write a letter requesting to be passed over. The letter alone doesn’t do anything. The BOARD determines if the letter caused your non-selection or not or if your record was going to be a non-select anyways. If your letter caused it, then no you aren’t entitled. I don’t think it matters in my case anyway because I am assuming my second letter will be the “determining” factor in the second board. I don’t know why asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels is equivalent to trying to commit fraud... and if I could somehow trick the AF to give me $69,000 when they won’t even pay out my $200 travel voucher, then damn, I’m better than I thought.

Nice. Going straight to fraud. I figured someone on here would go there eventually. Here's the deal, if you actually read the reg, it is 100% not up to me to decide what caused my non-selection. For my first board, it was the fact that my SR gave me a blank PRF and on my second board, I didn't decide to non-continue me... pretty sure that was the AFs doing. Its not my role to "file for Involuntary Separation Pay", I am simply asking how they determine who gets involuntary sep pay when THE AF DECIDES to non-continue someone. Wait, why in the hell am I arguing with a full grown man in a Buz Lightyear costume?

The suit is definitely weird at first; you first fly with it on ride 8, and it feels like a brand new jet again. Like you’re in a cocoon and disconnected from the world. Then it becomes normal after a while and you don’t really think about it. The tolerance for this varies among U-2 guys. It seems proportional to your mass; some taller or wider guys complain a bit more about tired backs and shoulders. And some are totally ok, it differs from person to person. Go figure. The good thing about the suit is that it was designed to accommodate an 8-10 hour single seat flight as well as could be expected given the constraints. The methods for eating, drinking, pissing, and temperature control are pretty well sorted. I’d guess that the 6-9hr missions that some fighter guys are doing in the desert can be less comfortable. The worst part is being on the ground when it’s hot/humid. Cockpit starts to swelter pretty quick, and the suit air doesn’t get cooled on the ground. The U-2 doesn’t like being anywhere near the ground. It likes to go up. Once it’s going up, everything is as it should be.

Operation Bolo details being declassified - https://warisboring.com/spies-helped-the-usaf-shoot-down-a-third-of-north-vietnam-s-mig-21s/

Duck - the details will be in your non select paperwork from MPF. Also you get six six months of TAMP regardless if you get offered continuation and decline or are not offered it at all.

Contractors = no need for long term govt healthcare and other expensive shit also.. Uhhhh

Can we get rid of cyber too so we can focus on flying jets?

Duck, If you draw a guard/reserve retirement and/or any disability they will take the 69k back. Separately, for anyone contemplating Duck’s ADSC Grand Slam strategy I think the move away from PRFs has closed that loophole. I wrote the letter, still got promoted. Maybe others had different results?

Cyber should have been the 6th department, not space.

I got the word from my commander that beers are on me.

DCA is great fun, but once you see F-22s do it you might as well take your ball and go home.

I liked the Top Gear one better

I was a senior exec for the prime, but eventually got tired of "Taco" stories about how great we were. A-29 is a good aircraft as a whole but design for USA was not the same as the one build in SA for years therefore needs to be considered like any brand new design and it has some severe struggles that people on the end side probably don't know about.. Has four fuel pumps because known failure rate of these is 90%+ Has only one hyd pump which known failure rate is 65%+ Have to fly with two tanks to ensure any sort of reasonable range however when you fly with tanks the .50 casings bounce off the tanks and get stuck in the flaps damaging them once you move them. Guns jam all the time due to design issues with empty shute If you fly with a POD then centerline station is unusable Hud is basically worthless as the PSU failure rate is 98%+ Fuel system wont transfer, single point fueling is problematic at best. Gear handle switch down doesn't always equal gear down. OBOGs is like trying to sucking air through a straw It goes on and on, so as I said before AT-6B would be my choice based on Beechcraft's years of experience and working with a known design. A-29 is really a new design that has never been tested before that is being directed by SA mgmt that has no experience or idea how to build a US Military aircraft.

Now we know you're trolling. Nobody learns anything at SOS.

I posted up in another thread, so sorry to beat the same drum, but being a firefighter (or cop) is another option if you don’t want airlines or an office job. A lot of larger-city options might be off the table if you did 20+ military due to age restrictions (36 is a cap in a lot of cities; but many smaller cities don’t have age caps), but it’s worth looking into. Most cities give points to veterans, let you buy back 3 years military time, are very conducive to Reserves/ANG if you still want to fly, may provide another pension, and are seemingly (only say that because I don’t have military experience...yet) similar mentalities/excitement levels to military service. There are 12 other people all day, every day in my firehouse, with nearly 60 assigned to the house in total. Lots of different personalities to keep things interesting. We have each others’ backs, are close-knit and social (both at work and with our families), help each other through thick and thin, laugh a whole lot (at ourselves and one another), and get to do some pretty crazy/exciting things that change daily. 10-20% of guys are prior military service, too. I’ve not flown a military jet (yet), but driving a 70,000lb fire truck through traffic, pulling up to a building with fire blowing out the window, and heading in when everyone else is heading out is pretty damn exciting. You’re forcing open doors and heading into an environment that’s hot and you can’t see your hand in front of your face to look for victims, or pushing a hoseline that’ll unleash 180-250 gallons of water a minute and nearly send you flying backwards. You will save a cat. Likely many cats over a career. I’ve heard of guys rescuing a cop, who got stuck in a tree trying to save a cat. In front of a playground full of school children... You’ll see the best and worst; often times within a few hours of one another. You’ll laugh pretty damn hard. You’ll go home feeling like you made a difference, even if it’s just a small one like opening up an arthritic old lady’s cat food can or making sure the local drunk is still breathing when passed out after his/her latest bender. It’s not a perfect job always, but it sure isn’t a bad one. Especially if you already have the mindset, as I’d imagine many pilots/military members do.

I took off for missions in country. We always had countless Army and Marines saying thanks in the chow hall. I see things a bit differently than you. I think 99% of us never left our CHUs (Iraq) or BHUTs (Afghanistan) when the incoming alarms sounded because we were too tired from flying. Let me die in peace while I sleep please. Our experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq just sent a very clear message to the Russians and Chinese just recently. We have a level of cohesion amongst our services that you shouldn't f with and it was put on full display for the Russians up close. The Russians thought sending hired mercenaries and some Syrian forces to attack special forces at a gas plant in Syria was a brilliant idea. They were messing with US military personnel who all have tons of experience from Iraq and Afghanistan. All that combat time and experience came to bear on 200 now dead Russian mercenaries and Syrian forces in a matter of 4 hours. Sergey: We lied, those are our men. "Can you please stop killing our guys." Mattis: Sergey, can you hold for a sec? HIMARS 198...199...200. On that day US 200 - Russians 0. I will always take those numbers. You can now walk into a bar with your AF ankle tattoo and at least have a very small amount of decency amongst our ground pounding brethren. Imagine that same scenario minus your tattoo of course, if the AF was fairly non existent in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Killing ISIS while your friend shouts at you on the radio and getting a big hug from him when he got back in one piece. Best/most rewarding days of my life. Outside of combat, SEAD and FAC(A) are great because they're both very dynamic...I like the challenge of flying into the fight with a decent plan, but knowing it will change 69 times in the next hour and I'll have to make those 1 sec decisions that will determine win or loss. Flying fighters is like playing a very competitive team sport...it never gets old (but the queep and AF bs sure does!)

It's not binary. I've strafed and dropped bombs in troops-in-contact situations. I've given numerous "cleared hot" calls from the ground. I've spent many nights far removed from the FOB, and enjoyed that "first hot meal" after a few weeks that you reference. Happy to do it. None of that changes the takeaway here. How many RPA orbits have you seen pissed away by the Army SPC sitting at the S2 desk on the TOC floor who doesn't have a real task, so tells the MQ-1 crew to just start cycling through the target deck looking for "suspicious activity"? (Rhetorical, but I saw it nightly for the better part of a year). Big Army asked the Air Force to go all-in to throw resources at a problem that the Army maneuver elements didn't have, and nobody on the ground knew what to do with any of it. Your argument can be distilled down to "you haven't seen the ground truth, but the USAF focus on supporting US Army COIN actions over the last decade saved American lives and killed some bad guys." To that I say "noted." We stopped F-22 production, TAMId a bulk of our talent, extended deployments to 180 days, and deployed weapons officers / test pilots / instructor pilots to do non-flying jobs that could be done either stateside or by an A1C with no training. We RIF'd a bunch of experience, and then grounded half the fleet in 2013 for "sequester" because we wanted to fall on our sword rather than playing the budget shell game we finally started playing in sequestration every year since then. RPAs are cool, they do good work, they're far superior than a Hawg, Viper, Buff, or Strike Eagle for a persistent ISR tasking. No disagreement. That doesn't change the fact that we hollowed our entire force and culture, perhaps irreparably, to fight a war against enemies equipped with little more than small arms, rocks, cell phones, and motorcycles.

Dropping 18x unguided Mk-82s just north of Tabqa Dam last March after being told for 6 years "We'll never drop dumb bombs in combat again."

I don’t know, I think it’s a fitting description. If the thing actually flew, it looks like it would be a horrible nightmare for both the flyers and maintainers.

Well, 70% of men and women between the ages of 17-24 are ineligible of joining the military. Due to weight issues, drugs, arrest record, and just can't meet the testing requirements. Meaning there is no backfill for any career fields. The AF and Gates didn't do this to us. Blame the every kid deserves a trophy parents. Great example is the attempted, but failed 100% promotion rate. It wasn't an F-22 that found Saddam Hussain and it damn sure wasn't the reason Bin Laden became fish food. If we weren't at Bagram AB, Bin Laden would still be sitting back in his Pakistan mansion. A replica of Bin Laden's compound was constructed at Bagram and utilized as a training ground prior to the raid.

Wow. Obviously you don’t know any of Duck’s history. Seriously? You’re wading into a conversation you know very little about and giving big opinions. Good job. But no one asked you. Thanks for your service. If you indeed have served. You could have stuck to the nice statements and asked questions of what you don’t understand. Is that a polite enough correction? How thick is your skin?

Why did you write the letter in the first place? If it was in order to get non-continued so you could (no pun intended) duck out of your ADSC then you are not entitled to pay. If you try to get paid anyway then you are committing fraud. If the letter was to clarify derogatory info then it wouldn't be the reason you got non-selected (the derog would be the reason). In that case, you get the money. Why the confusion?