Leaderboard

I'll be the first to admit that I've been out of touch with UPT for a while (winged in 1989). But, I still think this issue is getting more concern than it needs. I get it - there are some guys who might come back to UPT as instructors that have never flown a T-38. That's what PIT is for. UPT went dual track to focus some of the later training toward follow on heavy or fighter/bomber MDS requirements, but it was more about the fact that the -38 was in dire need of a break. When the dual track pipeline came about, it wasn't about producing fighter wingmen. That's never been the goal of the UPT syllabus. Teaching someone contact flying, basic acro, extended trail and some initial training in Tactical Formation doesn't seem to be the rocket science it's being made out to be. Personally, I'd be more worried about getting the guy proficient in single pilot instrument flying. I had a C-141 pilot as my primary -38 IP. He hadn't touched a -38 in 6 years when he came back to PIT. Somehow he managed to get me reasonably proficient in that aircraft. As an F-15 FTU IP I had to provide way more remedial instrument training than I did worrying about a UP flying tactical. Just my .02 i just re-read this and I’m not sure I gave my IP the credit he deserved with the “somehow he managed” sarcasm. He was good. He chose to fly a 141 and made no secret he wanted to be an airline guy. He may not have flown tactical for a living but that really didn’t matter. I look back and really appreciate his no slack attitude toward instrument skills and precise, smooth flying. Those things he beat into me saved my ass when I was shooting approaches to mins in Europe on a regular basis. That stuff was just as valuable as the other experiences the fighter pilots I flew with in UPT brought. I think my point is, regardless of their background, the IPs teaching our UPT students need to be highly competent. A mix of experience is valuable and nothing in the syllabus is that specific to a particular follow on assignment that a competent pilot can’t learn to teach it.

I'm cyber...you're a fucking dork.

No I don't think so (using LAAR / OA-X to prosecute targets with some ground to air threats in that AOR), just depends on the type of threats and the capability of the platform-sensor-weapons combo to mitigate those threats to deliver its desired effects. Use modern capability to out-range the enemy, the platform out of the enemy's threat range and while putting him in your effective range all while delivering air power for less thru lower platform operating cost and lower operational support (AR) and logistical footprint, profit.... If you are reading this Big Blue, buy a LAAR: - It's what you should be flying in permissive and in some parts of semi-permissive (Syria) AORs, depending on how you read tea leaves it is probably 6 to 15 times cheaper than conventional systems being used. - It's acquisition cost is not that big a hurdle when you factor the fast payback rate due to much lower operational costs (direct operations and operational support), lower utilization on your 4th gen fleet to accomplish the same mission providing another operational saving and extended life of your 4th gen fleet to again save money in the out years of budget planning. - It will give you Pilot / CSO absorption & operational seasoning if you buy a nominal force, employ it and crew at a rate of 2.5 you have places to go for your new people. Buy 150 and crew at 2.5, that's 375 pilot and CSO slots that your efforts at increased aircrew production can send newbies to until they go on to their follow F-69 / other aircraft, the training cost is low due to the efficiency of the platform, it will initially provide qualified wingman to deploy into the fight(s) and in this humble internet nobody's opinion changes the vector of the AF ever so slightly back towards Mission Focus. Cycle dudes thru in 2-3 year assignments as the FTUs build additional capacity. - It will give you an option besides RPAs when logistical concerns may necessitate using a manned asset vs. unmanned. Sometimes it is just simpler to send two trained aircrew in an aircraft to do a mission vs. everything required to execute RPA ops. It is an affordable option to have in addition to RPAs not at the expense of the RPA mission. - If you buy a robust LAAR / LAAR program vs. min running it, you have the possibility of additional missions (ACE program, threat replication, MOOTW platform, etc...). Don't just get padlocked on solving one mission with this platform, think strategically, buy it to hack a mission and build morale / mission culture to retain valuable aircrew / airmen and potentially offer career options to increase operational capability not administration of the AF. Preaching into the ether but might as well, just buy it AF...

Guessing English is his third language behind Klingon and emoji.

I see the benefits as follows: 1. Space will be priority for the SF, rather than a side job of the other services. 2. We will finally be more military-ish than another branch, and can make fun of them for being pussies, and still make fun of the other services for being gay retards.

I say we meet for Duck’s separation party and let a super drinkoff tournament ensue until no one remembers who won and we have a good time.

I’m a pilot, I get it. Agreed, there are mostly valid complaints here. I’m failing how people, pilots as you’ve pointed out who are supposed to be really smart, are failing to put this together. Ignore his backstory for a moment. He came on here and literally used the words “trick the AF” into paying him $69K. You just pointed out that his intentions this whole time were to successfully separate from the AF. That $69K is for being involuntarily separated unless I’m mistaken. If so, my bad. In what world is it ethical and of sound integrity to attempt to get something you are not entitled to? Again, if he said it all tongue in cheek, my bad. I apologize if I’m coming off holier than thou, but in my squadron, I wouldn’t be too happy if one of my guys attempted this. It’s just kind of sad is all. We complain about senior leadership, and rightly so, but this is not cool. Vote with your feet, don’t attempt to screw the AF on the way out. You just make it more difficult on your bros when you leave. This is a pointless conversation. The AF is going to get its pound of flesh regardless. Get yours, ethically, when and where you can.

Well Gents, it’s been fun but Duck is now a twice passed over Captain on his way out the door. I appreciate all of you who reached out and offered me advice throughout the years. I know that I will have a ton of questions going forward as I transition to the next step. This community is awesome and I love (most of) you guys.

Yup. It's out on RAW. Labeled as 17B (it'll open to 17D once the spreadsheet pops up).

What?! Every time I hooked a student it was a personal choice to wrong him despite a flawless demonstration of flying ability.

How about this? Can we get rid of cyber so they can focus on the top threat of the future while we play with airplanes?

That’s about 69 “follow up” questions that would take a theory of war discussion to answer.

I think that’s a good thing. I don’t either.

Follow up question, if we're planning to use this against people with means to shoot back in a serious way, doesn't that defeat the concept of the light attack? In that case wouldn't we use something like a Strike or a Hawg? I get that dudes in Afghanistan can shoot back, but I can't help imagining they're using much more than a drug dealer or wanna be terrorist from South America. Reason I ask is that I thought this was being sold as a COIN and CAS aircraft for a low threat environment, not something that will head in day one of the war.

"Irrelevant"? That's BS--according to US Code: "(3) Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), an officer discharged under any provision of chapter 36 of this title for twice failing of selection for promotion to the next higher grade is not entitled to separation pay under this section if either (or both) of those failures of selection for promotion was by the action of a selection board to which the officer submitted a request in writing not to be selected for promotion or who otherwise directly caused his nonselection through written communication to the Board under section 614(b) of this title." So it's up to the AF to make that decision, but what leads to the separation is definitely not "irrelevant". I am pretty ignorant as to how the end process works, so I'll default to your knowledge on the process and if you read my earlier post, I agreed that it is up to the AF to figure out their own process. But when making a purchase and the cashier gives me back more money than I think is warranted, I at least ask the question as to whether or not the amount is correct...if the cashier responds yes, then I say ok and take the additional money.

Valid on all accounts and I appreciate Beerman and Helodudes points. I would have paid to get out of the AF. What threw me for a loop was when I called to sign my refusal of my continuation paperwork and was told I was not being continued. My Commander then talked to me about IVSP and I sought out opinions on here. Bad wording on my part and I found it funny when some people who were not even involved in the conversation started getting pissy. One day I would like to tell anyone on here who is interested my full story and how/why I did what I did. I am glad it worked out and I have 100% thanks to BO. People reached out to provide advice on talking to commanders to DNP letters, etc. This place is special and is an invaluable asset for people trying to get honest, unfiltered advice for their career. Thanks guys.

Slackline, You misunderstood, have been debriefed, and are now quibbling.

I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable. Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions. Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward. I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore. I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

Bar napkin legalese... US Law does not cap number of COCOMs. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter6&edition=prelim UCP is a “plan” of the executive branch.

You caught me Space Ranger. Good work.

Nice. Going straight to fraud. I figured someone on here would go there eventually. Here's the deal, if you actually read the reg, it is 100% not up to me to decide what caused my non-selection. For my first board, it was the fact that my SR gave me a blank PRF and on my second board, I didn't decide to non-continue me... pretty sure that was the AFs doing. Its not my role to "file for Involuntary Separation Pay", I am simply asking how they determine who gets involuntary sep pay when THE AF DECIDES to non-continue someone. Wait, why in the hell am I arguing with a full grown man in a Buz Lightyear costume?

M-A-R-S Mars

If they do pay it in error, they'll come after you later. Not worth it IMHO.

USAF OPS NORMAL - Whichever way is worse for you

Can confirm (that this is happening, not the number it happened to). Essentially, for these guys their name doesn't appear on either the promoted or not-promoted list, and your SR gets a letter from AF/A1 for you that states: "1. You were recommended for promotion to major by the CY17D Major (LAF) Central Selection Board. Based on adverse information in your record, the Secretary of the Air Force has withheld your name from the promotion list. She has further directed initiation of a removal action via an Air Force From 4363, Record of Promotion Proprietary Action, to permit further review before determining whether you are qualified for promotion. You have the opportunity to provide comments on your behalf. The SecAF will make the final decision on whether to support or not support the nomination. 2. Public notification of the results of this board will take place on 19 Jun 18. Please work with your MAJCOM A1 staff to resolve this action." The letter is dated 5 Jun. From those I've talked to, nobody received it before Friday. They received no guidance on what it means, how to respond, or any kind of timeline or deadline (or deadline for the determination). No details of if you are added back in do you keep your line number off the board or drop to the bottom, or if you are taken out if your six months (and this is your second board) is from the board release or from notification...

I thought writing a do not promote letter disqualified you from involuntary separation pay.

It's not binary. I've strafed and dropped bombs in troops-in-contact situations. I've given numerous "cleared hot" calls from the ground. I've spent many nights far removed from the FOB, and enjoyed that "first hot meal" after a few weeks that you reference. Happy to do it. None of that changes the takeaway here. How many RPA orbits have you seen pissed away by the Army SPC sitting at the S2 desk on the TOC floor who doesn't have a real task, so tells the MQ-1 crew to just start cycling through the target deck looking for "suspicious activity"? (Rhetorical, but I saw it nightly for the better part of a year). Big Army asked the Air Force to go all-in to throw resources at a problem that the Army maneuver elements didn't have, and nobody on the ground knew what to do with any of it. Your argument can be distilled down to "you haven't seen the ground truth, but the USAF focus on supporting US Army COIN actions over the last decade saved American lives and killed some bad guys." To that I say "noted." We stopped F-22 production, TAMId a bulk of our talent, extended deployments to 180 days, and deployed weapons officers / test pilots / instructor pilots to do non-flying jobs that could be done either stateside or by an A1C with no training. We RIF'd a bunch of experience, and then grounded half the fleet in 2013 for "sequester" because we wanted to fall on our sword rather than playing the budget shell game we finally started playing in sequestration every year since then. RPAs are cool, they do good work, they're far superior than a Hawg, Viper, Buff, or Strike Eagle for a persistent ISR tasking. No disagreement. That doesn't change the fact that we hollowed our entire force and culture, perhaps irreparably, to fight a war against enemies equipped with little more than small arms, rocks, cell phones, and motorcycles.

Click on the link for the upcoming 119th FS UPT board. This is a basic example of how things should be. Also, most boards give instruction on what they what in the packets. https://www.177fw.ang.af.mil/Portals/68/documents/UPT/UPT Package - 2018.pdf?ver=2018-05-29-111104-047

Still nothing at my base (besides the two upper level execs being notified). I did have a friend look me up on the list and my name wasn’t on there, but until I hear it officially, I am holding off on the Duck Passover Party (clothing optional).

With or without dinosaur puppet?

Just another day at the office... The U-2 Spy Plane Is Still Flying Combat Missions 60 Years After Its Debut

Given that the full GI Bill (with Yellow Ribbon) can be worth upwards of $250k, I'd seriously consider sticking it out the extra 6 months.

Ok, you asked. Fedex 777. Mission is to make the company billions and for me grab some of the crumbs to the tune of $250K a year as a co-pilot(First Officer). Typically work 12-14 days per month either all at once with the rest of the month off or week-on, week-off. Much of that work time is soft time (i.e. not actual flying hours). Typically, I'm paid for 80-90 flight hours each month, but it's rare for me to actually have air under my ass for more than 50 hours each month. Since I'm an FO, many trip are as a relief pilot which involves deadheading around the planet in business or first class to various locations where I will meet up with the crew and act as the "free agent" third or fourth pilot on a long haul flight and then part ways. For the last 10 years straight, I've made the highest level in American Airline's frequent flyer program annually and have 1.5 million miles to use for family leisure travel. I can choose how I orchestrate my passenger deadhead flights using the company money available and any extra $$ is available for various travel expenses incurred in conjunction with any trip. Next month, I will be picked up at my house by a limo (paid for by Fedex) and driven to O'hare to begin my journey to Tokyo. My trip is due to start on a Thursday but since I'm not going to follow the deadhead schedule, I will stay home on day one getting paid. Friday, I will fly from O'hare to Tokyo in a lay flat business class seat sipping single malt and maybe catch a movie. From there, I'll take the bullet train to Osaka and have about 48 hours off before I have to work. My only flight on this trip is a 4-hour leg from Osaka to Guangzhou, China. Once I arrive in China, I'm done. I have a quick 12-hour layover and then I'm scheduled for 3 day deadhead sequence to get back to Memphis. Since I don't want to go to Memphis, I'm going to stick with the original plan of a private car driving me to Hong Kong which will get me to my first flight out. Thanks to my frequent flyer status, American has upgraded me from business to first class on my HKG to DFW flight. Once at DFW, I'll hang in the lounge until my flight back to O'hare. Once back to Chicago, another limo will take me home, dropping me off on Wednesday, 5 days after I was picked up. Since I shaved some time off my trip home by deviating, I'll be on the clock for almost 24 hours after I get home. For my trouble, I'll have about 30K more frequent flyer miles and my paycheck will be about $10K fatter (before taxes). Now the rest of the story........ About the time I'm landing in China after the 4.0 from Osaka, my family will be doing the Christmas morning routine. Being an almost empty nester, that's okay and gives someone with little ones a shot at being home. Hardly as noble as it sounds. I'm just a lazy MFer. Getting paid 10-grand to deadhead in style back and forth from Asia so that I can fly a single 4 hour flight is a fair trade off. That trip plus another for the first 6 days of Dec make up my month. So, that's one snap-shot of the Fedex 777 thing. Believe it or not, I've had better months, but this will definitely be a good one. The bad ones can be tough but with a little seniority, the good far outweighs the bad. Our bad doesn't hold a candle to the long days those of you still doing the job for big blue deal with. So, when you decide to bail, come on over - the water's fine. I usually get a paid commute via private car and first class international deadhead every month. There's lots of "Q" in the QOL and I definitely recommend it. Also, WTF is a "stewardess"?

On your second post, you're going to bash someone who asked an honest question and by all accounts... has helped contribute valuable information to the forum? Seriously? Indeed.

I'm a little late to the fight here but dude, your engrish is f'ing terrible. Seriously guys?

I'm not sure what "valuable information" you're referring to. You should reread his comment history. Seriously.

Why did you write the letter in the first place? If it was in order to get non-continued so you could (no pun intended) duck out of your ADSC then you are not entitled to pay. If you try to get paid anyway then you are committing fraud. If the letter was to clarify derogatory info then it wouldn't be the reason you got non-selected (the derog would be the reason). In that case, you get the money. Why the confusion?