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You are very odd.

Remember? That dastardly American and his 16 year old son executed by order of the President without benefit of trial? The Attorney General of the United States being held in contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over DOJ documents that were subpoenaed? (First ever such contempt finding) The use of the IRS against one political ideology? The FBI deciding that multiple actions that would've landed any of us for a long time in Leavenworth draws a "She was careless." The unilateral overturning of American bankruptcy laws? Telling the Senate when it was session despite what the Senate had declared? The use of the IC to surveil and then unmask several hundred American citizens? A dead of night jet filled with cash landing in Tehran? 57 states? A Navy corpseman? A JV ISIS? Nah, me neither... Brennan: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-director-john-brennan-apologizes-for-search-of-senate-computers/2014/07/31/28004b18-18c6-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e4bc27014c6b As to the list of braying senior security clearance holders: Their value to various corporations/think tanks/media depends on access to their successors who are still in the game, thus the clearances hold significant financial value to each holder. Once their personal contacts bingo out, they fade off quickly into obscurity. I don't think Brennan is particularly wealthy. This was a direct hit on his bank account. Watch what Trump does, not necessarily what he says. Oh, and as to Trump savaging Mattis at some future point, there is that little catch-all, "serve at the pleasure of the President." As a guy said, "Elections have consequences."

I've said that since the primary victory. Trump as president was only possible because "the establishment," over the course of decades, dissolved any moral accountability in the underlying system of government. They cheated, they stole, they lied, they enriched themselves and their circles, they abused, and they evaded punishment. Eventually these practices became ubiquitous, and all that was left was the facade of decency and honor. But a facade cannot protect the system from intruders. Enter Trump, who's only distinction is that his words and appearance match his/their actions. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

There is 1 direction, About a 300 that this guy could go from where he was toward a non populated area from where he started going off reservation. He didn’t turn that way. Never at any point in the ATC discussion is there any attempt to turn the lunatic making loops and rolls over a major metro area to get him headed that way. They were still steering him to the airfields at JBLM. As I said, when this guy went from “holy crap I stole a plane... now what” to “Ya’ll watch this!” The risk to the public changed entirely. If that wouldn’t force hands to say, yeah take him over the sound before he removes that option from us, then what the hell is the point of even intercepting him with live ordnance on them in the first place. He was in the only place where you could pump two 120s into him and not drop him on a house when he was auditioning for the Thunderbirds 800 feet over some of my friends houses. The second that happen the discussion should have been over. Because the next time he decided to roll it inverted and “see what happens” could have been over any of a dozen cities/suburbs all within short distance of where he abandoned normalcy and demonstrated a threat to the public at large. He escalated the threat beyond rational through his actions in the air, not simply because if were gonna run an intercept might as well run it “sexy.” If we need to change methodology on tactics during the intercept to minimize the time in the kill chain so you can take a fleeting chance like this one (him being over the sound instead of anywhere else) like we would with a similar situation over say Manhattan or something, than war game that and figure it out. It’s not like every chance for this to occur is gonna be lucky enough to happen somewhere over the Arizona desert or desolate stretch of Montana or something. As I and others said.... we got very Lucky he killed himself without taking some poor innocent with his dumb ass.

I dont know your background, so I dont mean to insult, but once the Eagles picked him up on their radar, they could've shot him down at any given moment. Guess what happens to an airliner when you shoot it down? It crashes. Probably fully in contact. Missiles cause planes to crash by sending frag through critical systems, like hydraulics. Even if they spear the aircraft, if they dont render those systems useless, the plane will probably still fly. There is a reason we shoot x2 at airline sized aircraft. So, do we shoot a plane down with a dude who hasn't necessarily shown hostile intent and let it crash in a random place, or wait and see what happens? Not like you are controlling the crash either way, unless it was headed for a very specific target. Did that dude crash intentionally? Was there a good point during the intercept to shoot him down and not be worried about where the plane would end up? I dont know. I dont have a ton of ACA experience, but I have some, and i have intercepted dudes with live missiles on my jet. Things happen quick and the situation is extremely ambiguous. It's a pick up game trying to figure out WTF is going on and what the intent is. Unless I heard Rich on the radio sounding like he wanted to hurt people, or the voice of God spoke over the NORAD freq and told me this was a known terrorist plot, I'd have a difficult time shooting. Edit to add: As a fighter pilot doing ACA, it's almost never my call to shoot. It's my job to intercept the guy, tell NORAD what is going on, and try to help make contact (over the radio or visually) or direct him away from a specific area.

He may very well be a good guy. I fell for that w the previous CCAF. I give zero fucks anymore about the “good guy” card. Maybe we need a real asshole to call a spade and tell the emperor he has no fucking clothes.

Lawman, To begin, it’s not like we have lots of data points on such events. The variables involved probably make such an event so unique that assuming there is one good option to resolve it is not valid. There may be nothing that can be done in some cases to significantly improve the outcome. At least one other person has mentioned this, but it appears to be worth repeating. When aerospace vehicles get shot down, they don’t turn into harmless confetti and flutter to the ground. Since there were so many potential victims in close proximity to the flight path of this aircraft, there’s absolutely no guarantee that a shoot—down attempt wouldn’t have made things worse. Removing any chance of the aircraft remaining under the control of this individual who indicated he had no desire to hurt others by shooting it with air-to-air weapons certainly wouldn’t ensure it crashed somewhere desireable. Missiles don’t always hit what we shoot them at either. Setting up a shot geometry that ensured a wayward missile wouldn’t hurt someone on the ground may have been difficult, if not impossible. A mach 2+ unguided missile with a live warhead schwacking someone’s house or dropping into one of the venues you mentioned wouldn’t be any better than the possible outcomes you’re concerned about. Opting to gun him might have reduced the radius of potential problems from the inevitable rounds that didn’t find their mark - but they’re still going to fly for several miles once shot. Based on your description of the area, it doesn’t sound like raining several hundred rounds of 20 mm HEI over the surrounding area would have been a good option either. It’s also a bitch to gun an airborne target that’s flying relatively straight and level at low speed. “Safe” shot geometry with the gun would have probably been even more difficult to set up and execute without risk to those on the ground than a missile. There’s a reason we test and practice with missiles and guns at White Sands or in large, over-water Warning Areas. This is not an ROE problem. Making the choice to shoot him down over a population center is almost always going to be the lesser of two evils. Both options carry enough risk that it’s probably a coin toss. Once he lines up on a target with intent, the shot may diminish the result but definitely doesn’t guarantee no loss of life or property. Think about the second 9/11 airliner hitting the tower and what was in its path leading up to impact. If an F-15 was there to pump a couple of missiles into him and halt that attack a few miles short of downtown Manhattan, that obviously would have been great. But, the crash site was going to be a mess, with plenty of casualties and damage. A lesser “evil” for certain, but still an evil that wasn’t warranted in the Seattle case because the same threat wasn’t indicated to those observing and speaking with the individual involved.

If you live near your guard unit, you work there and are home at night. Commute to the airline and you are gone at night. If you live at your airline domicile you are gone when you work either job. (Unles you are on reserve and not flying). Honestly if you think you can be happy flying a heavy, go do that. That’s likely where you need to be. Nothing wrong with that! Being a fighter guy is too much extra work to sign up for if you are trying to talk yourself into it. Just go fly heavies, be a guard bum and fly airlines. Being a part timer in a fighter squadron is hard freakin work; especially if you are an IP and trying to stay credible.

Nuclear option Pen and Phone

You prefer a tampon or maxipad? You seem like the string hanging out in the pool type of guy.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sycophant?s=t so nobody else has to google it

Who F#cking cares what uniform people wear?

This sounds like a copy and paste of the Democratic national narrative. However, the socialistic welfare state that side has been pandering for decades is the ultimate case of immediate benefit while eroding the future. Votes now from people for an idea of free things that sound good, while further handcuffing people to handouts by way of learned helplessness with no ability to pay for said handouts in the long run. Security clearances are granted based on a need to know combined with a job that requires said clearance to function. That’s the only reason any of us have access to any classified. These former officials no longer have the need for continued access any more than the day one of us leaves the service. Nice hypoerbole about SF86s, though.

It will be almost as funny as when the liberal media went after Mattis for saying it was fun to shoot terrorists who treat their wives like shit. Turns out Americans don't think it's insensitive to enjoy killing bad guys... A win's a win. I truly believe the only reason they haven't asked him if he thinks Trump "colluded with the Russians" is because they know they won't like his answer, and he'll make them look silly by asking for trivial things like "evidence" and "motive." Keep attacking/spellchecking his mean tweets... that's the left's bread and butter right now.

I GOT PICKED UP! I've been hesitant to post up here because there are still a couple hurdles to overcome and I didn't want to jinx myself, but I got picked up last month. I'm beyond stoked, excited and uncertain about the next steps, and wanted to hopefully give some confidence to the other old geezers out there that aren't sure it's possible if you're over 30. If I can do it, so can you! I pushed really hard to get my packet squared away, to get the right PoCs and follow up, and try to do as much of the preliminary work as I could on my own. A good line I heard from a friend was, "If you have a problem, be sure to present them with the solution to that problem." I tried to do this by handling as much of the paperwork myself so I was ready to go and not leaving it on anyone else to have to deal with. An even bigger help was making a ton of connections on and off this forum that were immensely helpful along the way. I am sure I annoyed the hell out of a lot of people and, for that, I apologize. But, all that said, all those people provided excellent advice and helped me get this far! To those hopefuls out there: utilize this asset! I actually got very lucky and went 2 for 2 on my interviews, getting offers from both the AFRC and ANG heavy squadrons I interviewed with. Both were great, but the AFRC squadron hit it out of the park with how awesome they were and I was immediately sold on being there. Also, the AFRC timeline to UPT seems to be a lot quicker than ANG, which is a big plus to me with my age, and everything I had done up until that point was with the AFRC side of things (recruiter paperwork, MEPS, FC1, etc.), so more delays would have occurred having things pushed over to ANG. I'm definitely putting the cart a little before the horse right now, since I haven't sworn in, my ETP is still working up the chain, and don't have dates yet. But, all of my paperwork is completed with the recruiter/squadron, my FC1 is certified, and I'm just waiting on the ETP signatures and my OTS board. If anyone has any input on the process from here or how to ensure all goes smoothly, I'd greatly appreciate it! Lastly, I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here that helped me get this far; I couldn't have done it without you! This forum has been an invaluable resource with this process and the people I've met through it helped solidify that this is an amazing community that I'd be honored to be a part of. Crossing my fingers for no speed bumps as the last few things get taken care of! I'll update when it's fully official and I've got dates. Looking forward to being part of the pilot community and hopefully meeting/buying beers for some of you someday soon!

Did you ask for them to turn the lights up? Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Go to Guam and cross the dateline a few times on a Coronet while dual billeted...

Or..let’s do it the old way. Hand your receipts and paper voucher to finance and you’re paid 3 days later.

Hey, don't knock one of the only tactical counter-measures we have... Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Pardon me if I refrain from rejoicing until we see how bad of an abortion the replacement system will be. Oh wait, it’ll probably take 10 years until it actually comes online. I’ll be well into my post AF career at Home Depot by that point while they take another 5 years to work out the lowest-bidder, “wasn’t in the contract requirements” bugs.

Never mind all that "the only guy in AF history who flew the U-2 in four different decades" cred. 🙂

It would send the message that we don't fuck around when it comes to this kind of shit. Had this happened on 9/12/2001, he would have had about as much time to joyride as it took the 15's to get there.

Am I the only one that thinks we need (and could have more immediate impact with) a cyber force more at this point?

To continue with the thread derail... I guess I’m old school/a terrible leader because I think the parking spots for Wing CC and other leadership (not fucking GS-15 or CCE, my God) are good because it’s a respect thing. Is it the most efficient use of parking spaces? No. But I think there’s a huge lack of respect in the military/American culture now. The E-3 and below parking spot type thing annoys me because that kid earns a spot over the E-5 that is his supervisor? What about the E-7 first shirt in the AMU that deals with the unbelievable amount of stupidity that comes along with that? I’m not very clearly articulating my point, but I hope it makes some sense. Standing by for righteous indignation from the peanut gallery.

I have said this about a million times in the past 5 years...

Having done the airshow gig just a bit as both military and civilian, I'll throw in .02. I suggest the competition aerobatics start if ever asked- The Int'l Aerobatic Club/IAC, part of the EAA, was a blast in the mid to late 90s. It is much smaller now. You get picked apart by the judges and your peers for a little wooden plaque that costs at least $30k if you've bought a whole airplane yourself and trained enough. Then, you move on to the FAA designees from the ICAS that give the low altitude waivers. It takes a real open schedule to fly enough shows per season to move down from 800' to 500' then to 300' and surface up, I think 10. At this point, you can just make noise and smoke, or you can try and fly your most precise execution each outing. Spent the last weekend shuttling kids through a static display while enjoying Sean Tucker's ever-progressing capes and demos. The Canadian F-18 demo is pretty sick, they actually kick in a boot of rudder on their turns off the show line and it looks like most of a snap roll. It's away from the crowd, hope there is little risk of departing. The USN had a 2 seater demo, it was great, just a bit more tame. Still a nice contrast to the Blue Angels later. Did the C-17 demo 4 times back when every wing had some crews in a Sq that were cert'd. It was a decent show if you kept it as a demo and didn't push the actual limits of the jet. Pretty good way to show the tax payers their $ at work, but as many times as not, if they ask a few questions while standing in line for an hour to see the cockpit, they may get most of the same impression. Does it help make future pilots better than mom and dad having a good shot of the kid in the seat smiling w/ their hands on the controls at a static? Dunno. Between my first airshow at age 6 or and first airline ride, I knew this was what I wanted to do, so I'm an outlyer in the statistics. I'm not past both hands yet, but well into them counting folks I've flown with that we've lost from accidents. It is worth the reflection.

As a kid growing up in East Anglia (the bit that sticks out of the eastern side of England) during the Cold War, I watched Bentwater/Woodbridge-based A-10s fly *under power lines* on more than one occasion.

Am I the only one who is a guard guy and thinking this dude is a sycophant?