Leaderboard

Since Hacker brought up the Regionals, I'll add some more (current) information, since I think the incredibly recent turn of the Regional industry (read, last two years) is going to be the nail in the coffin for the Guard/Reserve side of the house. I'm a Guard baby (Captain) and quickly got sick of only being able to snag 150-300 hours of flying time a year, due to the increased AD-Lite mentality of the Guard and all the extra admin duties and responsibilities that get thrown on you. I snagged a job at a Regional (that takes me an hour-and-fifteen-minutes to get to the employee parking lot) just after they more than doubled pay from what Hacker was talking about. Since that time two years ago, two-to-four other Regionals have jumped their pay WAY up... Endeavor is currently leading the way with $50/hr first year FO, $60/hr second year FO, and $93/hr third year CA pay. In 2018 I deployed for a couple/few months, took a two month AGR gig, and flew the line at the Regional as an FO... I live in my Guard city, take a short drive to the airline, and between the two gigs I made $100,000 and blocked ~700 hours... Let me reiterate, I'm an FO at a REGIONAL. They're FORCE upgrading people here at like 18 months (due to the shortages), so by the time I upgrade to the higher money in a couple months, I'll already be able to hold a line in domicile, due to all the guys junior to me already being forced to the left seat. I was doing the math with the CA I'm flying with on this trip yesterday, and (assuming I do the minimum AFTP/RUTA count for 2019 and maybe another month's worth of Orders at some point, and then upgrade around April) I'll probably make close to $120,000. This guy's a LCA who drops trips every month and he makes $120K. Add the minimum amount of Guard work and you're pushing $150,000... at a REGIONAL. Just wanted to throw that out there, because I keep trying to tell my leadership that THIS may be an even greater threat to our ranks than the imminent mainline hiring... I know we're losing senior IP/EP types, but what's going to happen when that trend continues, and then the young guys are bouncing AS WELL? No longer is it a huge pay-cut for the younger Lt's/Captains to hit the Regionals for the block hours. It's a pay bump (not to mention a GUARANTEED paycheck vs. Guard bumming), and it's infinitely easier to build those hours as well. I'm doing 85 block this month, and 90 next month. I was the high-time pilot in the Squadron at one point this year with 75 hours... in three months. Big AF, the Guard, and the Reserve have no idea...

It's all in the work rules.

T-7A Retainer

At all 3 of my airlines (1 regional) the only way they could work you on an off day via "junior manning" is if you actually answered your phone. At Delta our JM is called inverse assignment and can be quite a good deal. Same at DAL. It's pretty high though and there are ways around it. Some guys want to get rid of the loopholes but there are so many whores out there I don't see it changing. On the flip side, one of the nice things available to us is the ability to drop your entire schedule. I drop my schedule every month I bid a line because I'm not senior enough to get the trips I want during the initial bid. Then I just pick up trips I like as the month goes along. It's a gamble but I've had 100% success on getting plenty of hours for the month. Doing this generally allows me to fly the same number of days but make quite a bit more. Realize this strategy is subject to good staffing levels which isn't always the case on NB aircraft...almost never a problem on the WB. Way to many variables, and can change wildly based on your fleet within an airline. For example, I was recently able to work 9 days for 74 hours of pay. This is nearly impossible to do on any of our narrow body fleets. I left one legacy for another based strictly on my ability to sit short call at my house (ie...not commute). This is worth so much more than any amount of money. Apply everywhere, take the first offer, then decide. Shack. We've recently had 3 relatively junior guys split to the regionals so they can get their Total time up ASAP. All of them were mid-level Captains or junior majors....we just don't get many hours in the fighters. I just had another friend call me yesterday and ask how to go about starting the process of applying to the airlines (likely a regional due to their low hours). DAL for me because I've already flown regional flying and the 737...putting them together for the rest of my career sounds terrible. Having options in types of flying is key for me...now that I'm flying on a WB, I can't imagine not having this option. It's like an entirely different job.

T-7A Pretty Darn Good

In my eyes, those that will reap the benefits of the new ART pay tables will be those building time for the majors, those who never wanted to be an airline pilot and/or those who were furloughed almost two decades ago and at the crossroads, decided to make a career out of being an ART. However, the majority of the ART youth right now in the 1LT to senior Captain range are being bit by the commercial aviation bug every time a guy like me walks into the Sq with a smile on my face knowing that after my double AFTP, I get to go home and sit on short call reserve for weeks on end without getting tapped for work and don't have to deal with the daily grind of bullshit I don't miss one bit, even if I am making almost $100,000 per year less than I could be as an ART right now. With Capt upgrades at most of the majors plummeting to the 4-6 year mark, $300,000+ per year is within reach very quickly if you want the responsibility.

Like I said, it's crazy how much things have changed so quickly. Two other things I forgot to mention about the Regionals: Big bonuses (some with strings, some without), and a paid-for ATP/CTP course. Gone are the days when you have to go drop serious coin on the big rating. As stated, I'm not saying I want to be here forever (hope to be gone in a year), but it's not a bad gig. Big caveats to that: Live in/near domicile, and do research on Reserve rules. Those two things alone can be the difference between being content and being miserable... I've seen it within my squadron first-hand.

When it shows on your duty history and you have a TR from the school...it isn’t masked.

Maybe it varies with different companies. BCBS with AA is a little over $200 a month for a family, comparable to Tricare RS (I am using TRS because copays are less). Between medical, dental, vision, life insurance, accident insurance and a dental savings plan, I don't pay more than $265 per month in benefits excluding union dues, which are 1% or 1.5% during negotiations.

The other thing to plan for money wise is there will be a lot more fingers in your pie (sts). You may be able to get your gross pay back to “normal” on year 2, but a lot more come out of it. Union dues (2%), health insurance ($600/mo if you don’t have tricare), out of pocket health care costs (significant), vision, dental, life insurance, retirement contributions (your choice, but should be significant). No BAS, BAH. I have tricare (retired) and still only pocket about 60% of my gross airline paycheck.

I went with SWA. Would do it again. I'd explain why, but you said bases can't be a consideration. 😏 Reference your upgrade question - speculation is that number could drop to 6-7 years in the future. SWA had a hiring lull starting around 2009. It really didn't pick back up until 2014. The theory is that 2014 and beyond hires may see the 10 year upgrade figure decrease as they work through guys hired between those years. Additionally they are really ramping up upgrade training this year which will also play a big factor if that continues. Congrats if this is your situation. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

2 weeks off paid at delta the first few years. While on vacation, you can’t work...even if you wanted to As previously mentioned, off days are off days. The big big blue retirement check allows me to bid 3x 4-day trips a month when I choose to bid a line. That gives me weekends off all month, and a full 10 day stretch off somewhere in the month so I can actually get some shit done (or fish) I chose reserve over over this winter based on the manning tea leaves. So I still get 14 or so hard days off every month. Days that I’m on I just have to be able to get to Atlanta in 12 hours .... so pretty flexible. But since 1 Oct I’ve only had to “work” 6 days. 2 days of CQ and 4 days of short call (be within about 2 hours of Atlanta). The short calls were unused .... so after a 7 hr sit in/around Atlanta I went Home. So yes ... there’s absurd amounts of “time off” ... you’ll be able to have these cool things you’ve only heard about on AD called hobbies. They’re neat!

By no means do I know anything about this. I am just surprised to hear SWA. I hear they work you to death for your coin. I realize that wasn’t the question posed. I just can’t imagine doing a 4 hop for SWA compared to a one or two hop for DAL which makes the same amount of money being the better route to make more money. Sounds like you would have to kill yourself to make a lot of money. If the question were: Which airline allows you to maximize your pay and work the least? What would your answer be?

Delta or SWA

My experience has mirrored FUSEPLUG's, although my financial hole may have been a little deeper than others since I had an extra year flying at the regionals for $20/hour in conjunction with training pay and first year pay at my career destination. It has taken a while to replenish the decimated savings account, re-acquire just some of the stocks/investments that were liquidated, and re-establish the retirement account contributions that were halted during that time. Yes, the 2nd year+ pay is great, but there's a while lot of "double up to catch up" that has to take place which blunts the acute impact of that extra $$ coming in. I am 2.5 years into my career job (on 3rd year pay) and, no kidding, am pretty much just now getting my pre-USAF-retirement savings and investments sorta back to where they were before the journey to the airlines. I'm not complaining: I knew what the financial cost was going to be and prepared for it before leaving Big Blue, and the investment has been worth every nickel. But, the recovery has taken longer than I expected it to, even with a substantial eventual increase in income over USAF O-5 pay.

If your schedule has 15 days off, those days are yours. Your "reserve" days are considered "days on". For months without vacation, I typically bid to work four 3-day trips per month, Tues thru Thurs. I often work at the ANG in between. On rare occasion, I may feel unfit to fly, so 1 of those trips might get a sick call, and I have a stretch of 9-10 days off to recover. For vacation, I get 4 weeks per year. During the Sept vacation bid, I try to spread those weeks out across the year. This year I have a week in Feb, a week in Jun, and two weeks in Oct. In Feb, I'm taking my wife to the Caribbean for a few days, and South FL for a few days. We have line bidding so I bid trips that touched either side of my Feb vacation. Those trips are dropped with partial pay. I have just under 3 weeks off for 1 week of vacation. I don't really need that much time off in Feb, so I'll pick up additional flying for extra pay. My week in June will easily be three weeks off should I want, and plan on taking 2 weeks for a west coast vacation with the kids. October is my favorite time of year for working around the home/farm, so I bid the first and fourth weeks of vacation and typically pick up one or two desirable 3-4 day trips somewhere in the roughly 6 weeks off. Last year, I spent 15 days in Oct driving around Europe with the entire family, flying standby there and back. On Active duty, I always carried over 30 days of leave balance and always felt pressured (admittedly sometimes self-induced) to not take more than a week at a time due to the weight of all my responsibilities/additional duties. The differences between AD and Airlines in the ability to travel and have stress-free time off is nowhere near a reasonable comparison.

“In Russia, you don’t flare jet...it flares you”

BPZ DP allocation was 15%. Last year, BPZ pilots with IDE had a ~44% select rate if I recall correctly.

Probably preaching to the choir here, but 2-3 years out is also a good timeframe to start "tightening the belt" on your finances if you're considering separating for the airlines. Pay off the car loans, eliminate credit card debt, start building up the rainy day cash account.... Everyone talks about how much first year pay sucks, but it doesn't instantly get better when second year pay kicks in. While YMMV, and having heeded my advice above, it wasn't until about year three at the airline that I could finally start to "loosen the belt." While I love hearing the stories of folks going to indoc while on terminal leave, it seems to be the exception to the rule. Plan accordingly.

Sure, just put an honest availability date. You may waste a few bucks on the app websites but you may get a call sooner than you think.

First, enjoy your vacation. As to the wall, not all locked doors stop burglars but they stop enough of them they are worth the cost. The walls/fencing/barriers/etc... in strategic locations will not stop all illegal crossings but they will stop much of it, dissuade some of it and force others to attempt crossing where they will be unable to cross, unwilling to cross or be more likely to be intercepted and stopped by BP. Walls/Fences/Vehicle Barriers/Sensors/Patrol Roads/Lighting in adjoining urban areas and where LOCs cross international borders, everywhere else is covered as required with vehicle and foot patrols, outposts and aerial surveillance. Pay for it with some reductions in overseas forward based forces in Korea, Japan and Europe to fund a permanent US military mission to the SW and Northern borders to assist CBP and CG. America first. On the wall and your comment that I have a naive belief it will stop all illegal activity I will be more specific about my belief as to the specific benefit of the wall to sovereignty and security, it is there to mainly stop illegal crossing (vehicular and pedestrian) more than illegal immigration/illegal presence in the USA. I am well aware that most illegal aliens in the USA are visa overstay violators versus illegal aliens who physically crossed the border. The wall is part of the solution to assert sovereignty, enhance security and fight crime from illegal aliens, TNCOs, etc... other solutions are needed also (E-Verify, immediate return of illegal crossers, workplace immigration enforcement, etc...). Will dispute your assertion that the vast majority of Americans are not in favor of "the wall". Most polls reported in the media are push polls that ask skewered questions to illicit the desired response by the poller (Do you favor a system of barriers and sensors to prevent criminals from crossing the border? versus Do you favor a cruel wall that prevents refugees and children from being saved as they run from zombies?). "The Wall" (seems like trying to evoke a Pink Floyd like depiction of something evil) is not any different than what other moral and responsible nations do elsewhere in the world to protect their citizens, the first duty of any government. Why did the GOP not fund the wall? The Chamber of Commerce wing of the Republican Party listens to its agribusiness, construction, hospitality, etc... donors who want two things: cheap, non-unionizing, quiet, compliant due to their legal status labor and the pressure of continuing illegal immigration to keep wages and conditions for non-skilled labor cheap and under their control. The various wings of the Democratic Party (ethno-chauvanists, administrative social services, etc...) want members, voters and clients for the services they provide via government social service agencies. The unholy marriage of labor exploiting big businesses and left wing social activists reminds me of the end of Animal Farm, pigs and farmers together at the table and there was no difference. As I have said before, I think you argue in good faith but honestly how much longer do you think this will continue? The Constitution is not a suicide pact, as one side colludes with foreigners to subvert the law and sovereignty of the nation for their own political advantage the other side will eventually realize they are not working with a partner in a real democracy ruled by law.

Go with your thoughts on gun control.

Worth knowing.

Planey McPlaneface