Leaderboard

Devil's advocate, not every non-flyer deserves to be promoted. With that being said, when the promotion rates for rated dudes are 6.9% less than the non-flyer's it sends a message to the rated force. The Air Force is in the business of projecting power and blowing shit up through airpower. I can't speak for promotion rates in the Army, but I am certain my few Army Infantry buddies would have the same complaints if the combat arms branches in the Army promoted at lower rates than the non-combat arms branches.

Exactly correct. Big Blue can talk about their efforts to solve the retention crisis all they want, but those percentages show they don’t really care. If they did, the pilot numbers would be much higher.

As an 11F separating from AD all of this doesn't suprise me - but it's still hard to watch from the sidelines. 75% promotion rate for MSG dudes? Create some room at the B Course because we could really use these hard charging leaders in a MWS in CENTCOM. For me, ever since TAMI-21 I stopped listening to anything Big Air Force SAYS and started only paying attention to what Big Air Force DOES. For all those looking at a bonus or extending their ADSC past their UPT commitment I would fence in appropriately and do so only with very high SA. Get your ATP and be ready with options as you get close to your commitment. Best of luck to everyone!

All call by our 3-star yesterday mentioned that new promotion buckets would not change DP allocation. In other words SR's still get DPs based on total IPZ candidates and not based on "buckets." Furthermore, nothing to stop a SR from giving all the DP's to one bucket.

I wouldn't call Korea a bad deal though. It's got modern ammeneties, great access to overseas travel, and you can drink copious amounts of alcohol. To me it would be worth at least investigating the risk because even if you still pull a 365 to the desert you really didn't lose anything by going to Korea.

Why not? Why do the proposed flying only tracks stop at O-4 and not O-5? It would close the airline pay gap a little and more pilots may volunteer for a flying only track if so. Speaking from my experience as one who has been passed over for O-5, the gold oak leaves start to feel like an albatross or scarlet letter at about the point your year group finishes pinning on. The fact of the matter is, many O-5s aren’t going on to lead at the Group level or higher (unless they’re HPOs) so why not just let there be automatic promotion to O-5 since those who are going to make senior leadership positions were already selected years before.

GPA requirement is 2.5, unless it’s been raised recently. The AF website still says 2.5. https://www.airforce.com/frequently-asked-questions/officer-path/what-are-the-general-qualifications-to-fly-including-height Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I know a B-1 WSO who made O-5 like 4 or 5 APZ. I know 2-3 B-1 pilots who made it 1 APZ too. I also know a B-1 WSO who made O-4 7 APZ.

The hard truth why you weren't PCSd to a job outside of the wing is that others were being pushed above you. I know that sucks to hear, but that's the truth and someone in a leadership posistion didn't have the guts to tell you. Ten years ago it might have been different and you would have maybe been able to squeak a job into a NAF or DRU (i.e. Safety Center, AFOTEC, etc), but with the rated manning the way it is, only so many non school guys are going to be sent to staff. As for the Wing job, unfortunately I'm not suprised. I was a Wing DS and sat on several wing strat meetings with the CV and all the Group CCs (I was the one fighting for the folks in the WSA). What I learned is that there were two kind of rated guys sent to the wing: One with an above average record who was being sent by the OG to expand their resume (usually a late 2nd assignment senior Capt or brand new Major)...the other kind of person was an average 3rd assignment Major that got brought up to just do a different job. And when it came to the wing strats, if I fought for a wing rated guy that the OG didn't already have as one of his top 1/3 guys, he would question and fight me why that guy should be strat'd at the wing. And here I am, an O-5, trying to fight for who I believe deserves it...but ultimately, we're all owned by the OG (yes, even the guys in coded wing safety billets). Now getting one of the WSA rated guys a decent strat who the OG knew/thought a lot of was easy...then it was just a shell game of why he should be #7 vs #8 out of all the base FGOs. After my first round of doing this, I told the Sq CCs to not believethat pushing an average O-4 in the Ops Group for a Wing job is somehow going to magically help them out...rarely it did. In closing, it sucks you didn't make it. You come across as intelligent, hard working, and passionate and I imagine you were on the cusp of making it. As others have said, the board results do not define you as an officer or WSO, and most importantly as a human being. I wish you the best and if there's any other info I can provide you offline then shoot me a PM.

The reason so many guys get passed over ABZ is that their records aren't magically going to be stronger than the IPZ year in which they were originally passed over. It typically only gets worse 2ABZ and so on. By and large the dudes who get passed over for O-5 were going to get passed over no matter what year they competed IPZ. There are definitely a small handful of guys who might have made it one year vs the next, etc but that's not the majority of the guys getting passed over IPZ. Does it suck for those guys who were on the cusp--most definitely. But had those guys had gotten picked up then some other guy on the cusp wouldn't have made it and we would be having the same discussion. If you're coming up on your O-5 IPZ and you've never been in a posistion above a wing then you're automatically at a disadvantage--hopefully you're the master at your trade at that point...but let's face it, there are only a few of those, at least on paper (and he gets the DP at the wing as a pilot). If you're not an IDE in res type guy, you're more likely to promote if your record looks like you're a pretty decent jack of all trades...and unless you've had a couple killer deployments, squadron job after squadron job with a sprinkle a one or two Group or Wing jobs probably won't cut it. Duty titles matter on a PRF. I'm not saying I like the current system (there are pros and cons) but at least for this board, this is how things are generally viewed IMO.

And also discontinued. 😎

Same here, I'm that giraffe that needs the height waiver to tell me I can't fly the T38 even though I was hired by a C130 unit 🤷‍♂️

Goldfein: Pilot Shortage, Retention Issues ... - Air Force Magazine Jun 11, 2019 · The Air Force’s pilot shortage has “leveled off.” I was on board with Goldfein until this. This hit me like Welsh’s “pretty darn good.” There may not be a bloodbath, but they’ll keep moving the shells around to keep the hopeful hopeful. The skeptical will remain skeptical. Anyone who tried to do what the AF told them to do 2, 4, 6, 8, or 10 years ago will get shafted as the game changes yet again. It’s like being on a life raft in open water. You rig up the shirt off your back to make a sail and hope for good winds before you get burned.

Really needs to be a rule that if you can prove your recruiter lied to you or acted in poor faith to manipulate you into a decision you otherwise wouldn't make, your ADSC is waived. 1.) We don't want officers that don't want to be in. Officers need an exceptional amount of motivation to lead effectively. 2.) It betrays the very core values we try to instill. Stories like this are really frustrating to me. 2.6 GPA, via ROTC.

You should really plan for 2 yrs worst case scenario from the day you get hired. However, there are always plenty of possibilities of a short fall slot to open up for you to jump in. Also, if your squadron is part of a list of critically maned units for pilots, they will have priority in picking UPT slots earlier than other units. Anyone else, please correct me if the above info is not accurate.

Why did you apply for a non-rated board if you wanted to fly? They are completely separate boards that typically occur at different times of the year. At this point, if you turn down the non-rated slot, I believe you are ineligible to apply for any future AFOTS boards. The only established way forward would be to go to OTS and crush your AFSC then apply for the rated UFT boards down the road. I havent heard of someone getting picked up non-rated and making the jump to rated before attending OTS. The "recruiter is wrong/misled me" excuse won't wold much water, unfortunately. It is also not uncommon for individual recruiting squadrons to implement their own more restrictive policies in regards to GPA, waivers and so on. Their thought process is "why pursue a waiver when I have plenty of dudes applying who don't need a waiver?" What AFSC did you get picked up for?

This. Playing the STRD game is a thing when you’re an old Capt or young Maj. I’ve seen multiple 365s handed out to dudes over 18 years despite recent STRD rehacks.

It just means that He or She is currently at an in-residence IDE program right now and the "P" was most likely a "if I had one more DP to give" Super P

@Shaz... nah

I dunno but I heard from a friend that only 1 DP was given to a rated guy at Holloman and the other 3-4 to outgoing supoort squadron commanders so the logic makes sense. Also, did anyone catch the one BTZ without a DP also didn't have IDE! Does that mean there is hope?

Promotion is a direct message from an organization that they desire a person to CONTINUE. Non-promotion is saying there is no further opportunity to progress. There are some but how many pilots are the type who are good with just working in the military as a standard job at a time where a standard airline job will pay them more and treat them better. Promotion is definitely a retention tool. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Maybe I’m wrong but we basically have a flying only career track that tops out at O-4. Because if all you do is fly and scoff your desk job, in today’s environment you will make O-4, be passed over twice for O-5 and be continued until retirement. You will also be financially behind your peers who got out after 11 years and started flying for the airlines. If you don’t guarantee guys with no negative indicators a promotion to O-5 then it’s basically just relabeling what we already have now. At least an O-5 paycheck and retirement starts to make some of the math make sense... Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

So I'm playing the NCS game at Osan right now and basically Brabus had it mostly correct. In general if you want to be safe with the law, just switch to dependent OHA. Otherwise, your dependents can not reside with you more than 90 days. Different commanders have interpreted the intent on this differently as far as whether just going to Japan for the weekend hacks the clock. In short Uncle Sam doesn't really want you collecting BAH in an area that you don't own a residence in. I don't know anyone recently disciplined for this but if you search Reddit it has definitely happened in the past. The SOFA status sometimes gets confused with residence rules and Non Command Sponsorship because without a SOFA visa your family also has to depart every 90 days. The good news is the ROK government doesn't give a shit if your family is CS or NCS. They will grant a SOFA visa either way which allows your dependents into Korea for as long as your orders run. Definitely do this because if you accidentally break 90 days you don't want persona non grata status on your spouse. It might make it difficult for them to visit other countries as well. Korean apartment associations are ammong the most pet friendly I've seen. In short, most all of them allow pets at no additional cost but you will be responsible for damages to the premises after you leave. No grass at Osan so your dog will need to learn to poop in the street. Please pick up after it. Uber ass pain to ride your bike through it. Off base care is available in Suwon which is about a 20 minute drive or 45 by train. The hospital has a foreign traveler ward which deals with Tricare and organizes care. You can still use the Emergency Room on base in emergencies. If you have children that are school aged that is going to be your biggest problem. DOD schools will not take NCS dependents. There are private British prep school options but they can be pricey. You cannot use Space A or the rotater to move your dependents here. You can use it to move them back if you plan it correctly. BX and Commissary privledges extended as normal. You can only register 1 vehicle on base. Don't show up with Use or Lose leave. Burn down to at least 50 days or so. I'll send you a PM with my .mil and I can give you a lot more info.

I truly believe promotion is based off potential to promote to O6 and beyond. If you seek mentoring with any senior officers, they will never advise/assess if your career choices/progression will take you to O5. It's always been about whether or not you will make O6. Combat/ops stink is only part of the O6 potential equation (for non-flyers it means even less).

If you’re family is over there for semi-permanently, you will get OHA instead of BAH. I think Korea requires visitors to not exceed 90 days in country at a time (doing so requires a work/student visa). I remember guys’ wives every 90 days taking a trip somewhere (anywhere that’s not Korea) for even a few days (rehacks the clock). It’s a bit gray on where the line is between “visiting” and still collecting BAH vs. semi-permanently living there (i.e. there every day except the 1-3 day trips every 90 days). Sounds like you’re wanting to do max time living in Korea for family, which means you need to do OHA vs. BAH. You will get a place on your own (plenty of apartment options right off base for both Osan and Kunsan). OHA is meant to cover rent and most utilities, so you shouldn’t really be out of pocket on this. Medical care is nearly non existent at Kunsan for family, Osan is “full up.” I wouldn’t worry about emergency care, but normal doc visits, kids have X condition, etc. are definitely things to consider, especially if going to Kunsan. I know plenty of people over the years who took dogs. I’m not sure if you’ll be able to book a pet spot on the rotator, but that’d be my first choice if you can. Secondary option is get dog over there yourself via normal airlines. This can be a massive pain in the ass, but doable. Watch out on time of year, they won’t fly an animal if temps are over something in the low 80s. Basically, a total crapshoot in the summer. It’s also not cheap, and there are crate size limits. You’ll have to talk to the cargo section at airlines to figure that out...hopefully you can avoid that by doing the rotator. Lastly, I wouldn’t say a remote to Korea saves you from a 365 to Buttfuckistan. I trust the AD as far as I can throw them...which is 0.069”. So, personally I don’t know if I’d ever take a “bad deal now” in hopes it will save you from a “bad deal later.” Korea won’t be too bad (and way better than the desert 365), but I know I’d be real pissed if I volunteered for that, then 4 years later got a “here’s your parting gift as you get ready to retire in 380 days.”

They probably have the same name as the one poor IPZ person with a DP who didn't get promoted. Luck is a skill.

Would have loved to see the dumbfounded look in the face of the the guy (or gal) who got promoted BTZ with a P.

Thanks for posting. I’d never read that. Interestingly, according to that guidance the “1/xx shop chief” strat is valid, while the primary strat AFSOC uses appears invalid. We use a YG (year group) strat method and think it’s the bees knees, but other MAJCOMs apparently have no idea what it is. The whole system is so dumb.

Picard should have used the force to stop the Cylons in the mirror dimension.

SPOILERS! Finally watched it all. Jesus what a disappointment. The writers even admitted they just wanted to move on, but wow. Jon being a Targaryen? Meaningless Bran can see the past? Doesn't change a thing. Sansa is cursed by terrible acting. Arya had the best life of any of them, yet she's so damaged she has to sail off the end of the world? So much for family sticking together. Jaime's redemption? Undone. The White Walkers? Just monsters that kill people it turns out. Dragons? Amazing at political commentary (burning the throne), but cool with genocide. The smartest half-man in the realm? Turns into a naive fool, but also gets to pick the king. The Lord of Light and the Prince who was Promised? Meh, just forget about that. The Unsullied, Dothraki, and Northmen storming Kings Landing... Why? One dragon can do it all. They basically shit the bed as soon as they ran out of books to follow.

"Break rules and go fast... but don't break MY rules"

For locals, we could just make them up. Dude flew with FURLO last government shutdown. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Our stats are pretty similar, my GPA was slightly higher but a lot of folks dont really care about it anyways. It might carry greater weight with the unsponsored board though. Pro-tip, if you still have a cac, look at the reserve vacancy finder in AFPC on the portal. You'll be able to see slots and usually they'll have a POC you can harass. I went this route and was invited to an interview that wasn't publicly posted, so there were only about 5 of us that showed up.

Hey Viper, Your test scores, GPA, and flight hours look fairly similar to mine when I applied to heavy Reserve units. It’s really common for units, both ANG and Reserve, to offer nav slots to applicants who do not have their PPL. When I did my interview, I came across a few applicants who originally submitted a package for pilot interviewing for nav due to low flight hours and no PPL. So I think you’re on the right path by pursuing your PPL and raising hours at the same time. I had about 110hrs with a PPL at big 30 (current age limit for UPT is 33) when was hired. Applying for unsponsored slots is definitely an option, however keep in mind that your sponsorship status is one of the selection criteria along with many other factors (GPA, flight hours, AFOQT, PCSM, leadership, etc.) for the AFRC board. Unlike sponsored applicants, not all unsponsored applicants get selected on the AFRC board. Feel free to PM me if you need any help with the Reserve process, interview pointers, or what have you. I recently went through the process so my knowledge on this topic is fairly fresh.