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FOIA requests work well for the old stuff. I got my uncle's F-4 Vietnam shoot-down report that way several years back. Had all the family stories (more than one F-4 pilot in our family at the time), but it was interesting to see the actual report. On a semi-related note, got the flag and an empty glass out for some family remembrance on this Memorial Day

Me and my friends up here are just ignoring the bitch and enjoying our lives.

Yes. #PYB

Indeed. A business absolutely has the right to say "no mask, not welcome." Same for shirt, shoes, or bringing in animals ( for the most part). But for a government entity, without my consent in the form of a passed law where I get a say on it passing or not via my representative and/or executive branch executor, does not. Or should not without a fight. Otherwise, they'll take even more power upon themselves if they know they can do it without consequences. And specifically because of the TSA buffoonery, if I have any choice in the matter, i.e., have to for work or over 12 hours of driving, I deliberately choose not to fly. I despise the feel good, apathetic, cattle-like entity that is TSA and much of our modern conform in the name of security society. Goes against the grain of what we were founded upon, have been, and are supposed to be.

I respect you man but this type of thinking is so disappointing. “Self-described experts?” People like Dr. Fauci are experts in their field, full stop. World-class expertise. Top 0.01% level expertise. Lots of other doctors and scientists and public health experts are working hard to try to beat this thing so we can stop people from dying and all get back to living our lives as normally as possible. The problem is that science is hard and uncertain and this virus is novel and translating scientific data and observations into public policy is also hard and gets filtered through 50 different governors and the entire federal executive branch. I’m totally fine blaming public policy leaders for failures (I certainly do right now!), but to let public policy failures lead you to throw out the entire concept of expertise is really unfortunate. You are an expert in your line of work; would you want some random guy off the street to completely discredit and mistrust you if there was a mishap or CIVCAS incident? I think not. I mean, they will and they do, but it’s not the right stance to take. The article The Death of Expertise is really relevant here, check it out if you can. The book with the same title was fine but the OP article is really all you need.

Great article. Hopefully next time a great panic comes knocking we’ll delay tossing out freedoms at least until we have real data, not merely projections by self described experts. Speaking of which, now that data has disproven the experts, can we cease calling them experts?

I'll agree its not the experts fault. I think where the animosity comes from is how expertise translates to policy. If you are a governor and you are overseeing a crisis like this, obviously you are going to fill your staff with doctors to advise you. The problem is, doctors, by their nature, want to save lives. Their value on life and life saving medicine supersedes any other requirement for society because that is their job and their hippocratic oath. And we should be glad they are like that. Its what keeps them 16 hours in an emergency room exhausting every possible solution and experimental treatment necessary to save some lives. But it doesn't translate to policy well. So if you let your doctors run away with the decision making of course they are going to say "we must completely lock down everyone and barricade their homes to save every last single life possible and no-one must die!" Then you have to top that off with the public's demand for information. I think people with a minimal verse in science know these models are hard to read and are not designed to do what we are using them for. But when the governor gets on TV people don't like to hear "i think" and "it seems like". They want to hear "yeah, we are definitely going to be open again in 3 weeks, that will be the peak."

If you want to compel behavior in a free society, either convince me or pass a law (which my representatives can debate) and force me. Rule by fiat neither convinces nor allows debate. I understand you agree with mask theory, but what happens when this same method of governance enables outcomes you disagree with? To avoid chaos, see sentence #1.

I don't remember seeing this on Bogidope or anywhere but came across a posting for a joint UPT board at AK ANG (176th Wing and JBER and 168th wing at Eielson). Link here: https://www.176wg.ang.af.mil/Careers/Flying-Officers/UPT-Application-Information/

As there is no, that I am aware of, passed by the legislative and executive branches (those bodies elected by the citizenry to represent them) such a law, there is also nothing other than administrative fiat that says I must. No law trumps admin directive. Therefore, there is a constitutional right for me to make my own decision.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/21/how_fear_groupthink_drove_unnecessary_global_lockdowns_143253.html Pretty good article about fear and groupthink during this.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you were not intending as such, but your post describing the workings of the American administrative state came across as patronizing and condescending; a lecture to the peasant from the 'expert.' (see what I did there?). When those agencies get to, via Congress' laziness and having the bureaucrats make unpopular decisions that the Congresscritters don't have to defend and can make a career railing against "government," insert themselves into every aspect of a citizen's life, well, fcuk that. I don't want to lobby an unelected agency. I want them to be there because they are enforcing a law that I voted for/against. Not one Billy Bob Admin Guy decided I needed in order to make his annual appraisal and bonus better. For once, that ancient BA in Political Science comes in handy. Of course, there was less history, government policy, or Washington leviathan to learn back then, so perhaps I am behind the times...

Obeying the TSA is a federal law. Not sure I understand your point. I’m saying emergency decrees that we must follow the latest utterance of supposed scientific experts is degrading legitimacy of our entire system and not the legal way to govern. Perhaps I’m conflating this discussion of airline policy with the overall mandatory mask debate nationwide, and taking you out of context. I do agree businesses have rights to refuse service and set the terms of service. Which is why forcing those Christian bakeries to make gay wedding cakes was an injustice.

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy? While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere. I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear. Wear one or don't. I don't care. I question the efficacy. But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

You would rather have Schwartz? Hope you’re wearing your blues right now, it is Monday after all.

Please stop referencing things that remind me I might need an age waiver soon, ok??

Also, here's another that I haven't seen posted anywhere: https://www.940arw.afrc.af.mil/News/Article-View/Article/2170310/undergraduate-pilot-training-careers-are-here/ KC-135's out of Beale AFB in NorCal. Had some family up there for awhile and personally love anything close to gold country. Tried calling and emailing a few times over the past few weeks to confirm package requirements, deadlines, etc., but no dice yet. Gonna let it rest another week and hope a 3rd time is a charm.

You gonna show us on the doll where he touched you/tell the tale once he departs the fix?...

If you were to make masks "mandatory" for airline travel, what would your criteria be? - Medical research shows that if they are not tight fitting, the efficacy diminishes. How do you measure/determine if they fit well enough? - Can people hang their nose over the mask? - I'm on a 17 hour flight to Singapore: do I get breaks when I can remove it? How long? Do I only do it when in the lavatory? - We give accommodations to people that need support animals because of various emotional issues such as PTSD. What about those that have claustrophobia and find a mask to simply be impossible to don? What accommodations will we make for them? - What materials are acceptable? One research study I read stated that 600 count cotton along with two sheets of chiffon (made from polyester or spandex) was one of the most effective combinations. However, I've seen some pretty shaky homemade masks that don't appear go do much of anything. Who decides what is allowed and what isn't? Is the person deciding trained to know the difference?

If you can't actually argue the points with logic, it is perfectly valid to just go ad-hominem instead.

Are you one of those people who holds up security at the airport while screaming about your 4th amendment rights at the TSA agent?

I'm triggered by the General's hairline. As an O-4, I find this offensive and indicative of my future (well, not the star).

Standing by for another “aircrew discipline” video...

Since Baseops provided the inspiration to get the pen flowing again, here's the first two panels of what hopefully is not another example of "the shortest offensive of all time..." As I mess with the options, the quality should improve-- taking from Procreate on the iPad through Powerpoint to make the panels dropped quite a bit of quality that I need to fix. I'm always looking for ideas, so if you've got an opinion on the way a situation (not just the current crisis that provides the backdrop here) was handled, maybe it can become a cartoon-- feel free to shotgun ideas. I'll mine the "What's Wrong with the AF" thread too-- always great stuff. Before we fully reveal what General Roteleks' plan is to get through quarantined flight ops, we'll see how the LPA took squadron direction to make their own masks, after which Ed will solicit sponsored face-masks from "animal companies" in Las Vegas. They'll be posted on Facebook over at Thunder and 30 Millimeter from here on out. I oughta do a character panel to reintroduce all of the personalities again. Feedback and ideas welcome-- thanks for the inspiration. Cheers, Zero

Texas, Florida and a few other states are a few weeks into “opening things up” and so far so good. The sky isn’t falling and the death rate has peaked. Far stretch from the doom and gloom we heard about from certain people. If someone has a problem with it then they are welcome to stay at home. Michigan on the other hand? The ‘queen’ there is asking for a rebellion.

Really? Last I checked people give up individual freedoms all the time for the “greater good” by joining the military.

This is the most terrible justification in the entire philosophical pantheon.

Beg to differ. Americans have a history of givIng up “freedoms” for the greater good. I’m old enough to remember when seatbelt use became universal. You don’t hear too many people today arguing against seatbelts, but the debate at the time was somewhat similar to what’s going on today. “Why does the government care how I keep myself safe in my own vehicle?” etc. Well, as it turns out, society as a whole is better off when there aren’t needless deaths and emergency room visits. So guess what? You lost your ‘Murican birthright to choose to go unbelted and somehow we managed to avoid becoming a police state. Banning public smoking would be a more recent example of the same concept. If your individual actions have a negative impact on the public as a whole, you shouldn’t be surprised to see those actions curtailed in some way shape or form. Putting on a seatbelt, not smoking in public, and yes, wearing a mask during a pandemic has everything to do with being a polite, civic minded human being and nothing to do with your government going rogue. As far as justification for putting people out of work, don’t throw me in with that camp. I happen to agree with your assessment that we’ve flattened the curve and it’s time to go back to work. I won’t naively argue there aren’t some looking to further their particular goals on the back of a hobbled economy, but I might suggest there are far fewer “libs” espousing that rhetoric than OAN would have you believe. It ain’t just republicans out of work and hurting and the VAST majority of Americans are wishing things would get going sooner rather than later. Maybe my idea of logical thought is different than yours but I see widespread mask usage as KEY to providing the public the confidence to do just that. Regardless of what any politician says, nothing is going to really “reopen” without a public willing to put themselves into bars, restaurants, shops, and airliners (the original topic of this thread). So even if you believe masks are ineffective (and you’d be wrong), isn’t it worth a little “theatre” if it gets people back into public spaces and the economy up and running?

Anyone been to Asia recently? S Korea, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc: all very low rates of infection/deaths. Guess what? EVERYBODY wears a mask in those places. Might not do anything to keep YOU from picking up a virus, but certainly limits the distance that a sneeze or cough will cover, thereby limiting spread. In other words, it ain’t about you. Entirely foreign concept in the United States I know. Seems like a pretty small sacrifice. Plus it has the added benefit of making you un- trackable by face recognition software. So how does that equate to more government control? 90 plus thousand people are dead from this thing. It continues to spread in many areas, yet we need to restart the economy or risk even greater catastrophe. Effective/ineffective doesn’t really matter. Masks will help people have the confidence to go to work/school/restaurants/travel/etc. You anti mask freedom fightin’ patriots really want to be the reason the economy doesn’t restart?

Haha. I’ve already told the story, half of it anyways, somewhere on this site. Bottom line he doesn’t care about anyone other than himself and only when it helps him look good does he care about others. If it’s people he perceives don’t matter even if they are doing a large share of the work while other groups are getting ahead for not reason, then it doesn’t matter to him. We are all volunteers so that gives him the right to say pound sand for 5 years. He’s trash. Not worth of what the Air Force should be. I’d by far and large rather have that one AMC dude from a few years back. Schwartz. Don’t think that I’m advocating for that or that I liked him. Just that he is better than fingers. Schwartz isn’t a leader and has no spine. But at least he owned it. I can live with that. That’s integrity. Fingers has none. Wonder how he got his callsign.

Time to dig up an old mixtape CD or that disc we used to burn a torrented game lol

I don't want to. That, according to my understanding of being possessed of the gift of American citizenship is enough of a reason. Mainly because I despise being told that I must according to the whims of buearucrats (sp?). Our administrative state is UFB. Our duly elected federal representatives and executive branch have not passed nor enacted a law done IAW our Constitutional system. Therefore, I don't have to. States may vary IF they've passed a valid law IAW their state charter/constitution AND, if needed, the Supreme Court decides in the state's favor.

Here's the answer. Not from fake news (aka authoritative sources) so I'm sure it will be ignored by leftists on this board.