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You mean like Polio? For things like measles, you have to hit ~94% and somehow we did that back when people trusted science. Source: 1) https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808 First of all, Pfizer and Moderna are the only approved vaccines, so let's focus on those. We know for sure that, when it comes to COVID, it's way better than not being vaccinated at all (up to 95% effective) and that it has been proven to significantly reduce the severity of COVID infections when they do happen (almost all cases after vaccination are mild). Source: 2) https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201118005595/en/ It's not about you or me. It's never been about you or me. It's about the herd. While you guys love to quote death rates in a vacuum - and death rates are important- you have to know the assumptions. The current assumptions are that you get admitted to get care. This literally isn't true as of this week in highly populated parts of America. Without the ability to get in hospitals due to exponentially rising cases, folks that could have been cared for are going to die. Also, it's kind of funny to see that some of you literally last week pulled BS sources out that showed that we wouldn't have ICU capacity problems (you took overall US capacity in a vacuum or cherrypicked examples) and now they are manifesting in our most populated areas in America. Sources: 3) https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-has-southern-california-icu-capacity-at-zero 4) https://abc7.com/health/what-happens-when-ca-icu-capacity-reaches-0%/8879527/ Also, why don't you all ever talk about how the hospitalization rate for COVID is significantly less biased towards old people when compared to the death rate? Younger people actually have a much higher, real chance of being admitted to the hospital and/or icu than death rates lead you to believe. For example, let's compare 30-39 year olds to 65-74 year olds. The average COVID patient who is 30-39 years old is on the order of 22.5 times less likely to die than a 65-74 year old. But they are only 2.5 times less likely to be hospitalized. Sources: 5) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/covid-data/hospitalization-death-by-age.pdf 6) https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html So what? Normal average aged people have no real chance of hospitalization though, right? Wrong. A predictor was created using data from a cohort of studies to tell you the relative likelihood of hospitalization based on your age, bmi, race, gender, etc. Spoilers, it's greater than you think. For example, a 40 year old male with a healthy BMI who is white statistically has a 3.6% chance to be hospitalized from COVID-19. Sources: 7) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0237419 😎https://riskcalc.org/COVID19Hospitalization/ Who cares about hospitalizations though? ICU admission is what matters, and that's probably not that bad, right? Wrong. Studies have shown that, when you take the population as a whole, generally ~24% of all COVID cases are admitted to the ICU. And that's not just old people, it's everyone. For example, out of the hospitalized young people aged 18-34, 21% ended up requiring ICU care. Look at the other age groups and you'll see the same trend. Source: 9) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770542 Put it all together, and the hospitalization and ICU admission rate for 30-39 year olds is on the order of 3% and 0.8% respectively. For 40-49 year olds it's on the order of 5% and 1.5%. Unfortunately, these aren't just trivial numbers, although we all wish they were. When you look at 65+, you get to terribly high requirements when it comes down to hospitalization and ICU admission rates. When a portion of society takes hospital capacity away because they go to strip clubs to protest "liberty," you end up making it literally impossible for numerous people to get life-saving care: My hot take: If cases don't start to go down immediately, we are going to max out America's medical system from coast to coast. With this lack of access to care, significant amounts of people will die of treatable diseases - not just COVID. I mean, we've already had literally as many excess deaths this year as we did combat losses in WWII, so I guess this probably will fall on deaf ears. But no one's asking for permanent lockdowns or microchips or any changes to life that are long-lasting. Society is asking for you to be on the team that bands together for probably on the order of one year to take precautions, limit the spread, get vaccinated, and get through this. No one chose to have a worldwide pandemic that would unduly stress the entirety of the global human medical system. Everyone wants to get back to normal, and the only way to do that is to trust science and work as a team. Get on the team.

You’re right, we should implement a massive overhaul, and spend a ton of money, to change all of the state laws who don’t conduct ID verification when voting due to the 1,300 actual documented cases of voter fraud in the 20-years. Fuck outta here.

Man, you guys are ridiculous. “Because I’ve never personally seen X” is an incredibly stupid way to make a case. This thread (and elsewhere) is full of this bullshit notion; how about you guys acknowledge a shitload of things exist, occur, etc. in ways you haven’t personally experienced because such a thing would be impossible, as you haven’t lived in every square inch of the world, the U.S., etc. Directly to your specific point on this subject, here’s a decent overview: https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx My personal experience - I’ve voted in three states that don’t require a photo ID. In one of those states there is literally nothing done beyond verifying the name I stated is on the registered voter list (checked at the time by the volunteer sitting at the check in table). Yeah, it happened...in the last 3 elections I’ve voted in (local/state and federal). Parting shot to emphasize the point - do you disbelieve one of your airman’s claims of rape because you’ve never experienced it or seen it happen first hand? Yeah, that’s exactly how stupid your above comment comes off. And even worse, you’re not the only one in this camp.

Trash Pandas it is then.

That’s the thing tho. Not everyone is doubting. Not even a majority is doubting.

the first 2 pages of this thread are worth a look...

Funny how those saying the 2016 elections were fair and honest are now absolutely certain they were tampered with...even though Trump's own people have said they don't see evidence of fraud that would have changed the outcome. It's time to call it a day, prep for the midterms in 2022, and for the love of God, find a better candidate than the tweeter-in-chief for 2024.

Republicans need to move on from Trump and focus on how they’re going to attract new young voters and grow the party. The day he leaves office, Twitter is going to ban him, and he loses the most effective tool he has for promoting his message. I honestly feel like if the Senate goes D, we’re in for a unprecedented time in our nation. And Republicans need to have a productive counter narrative.

This thread just needs to end until next election.

Because you like hot bunking? Jk

You're conflating interference with fraud, most people accepted 2016 all votes as valid even if they claimed there was foreign interference that changed the outcome, or even if they went the cringey route of saying they would leave the country or #notmypresident. And most everyone who claimed interference happened in 2016 would certainly agree it could have happened this year. Key word being interference, not invalid fraudulent votes from a domestic conspiracy at a scale never seen before.

No evidence of conspiracy to commit fraud on any scale. No evidence of fraud outside historical norms, which happens for both parties, AKA little that doesn't impact elections. Oh, and it gets investigated and prosecuted. Trumpists - "Nope, gotta burn it all down and make every state the same." Yet you guys still claiming individually you support the "Party of states rights, and the Constitution?" Did you think the TX lawsuit was a good idea too? And...you're willing to trust a signature on a absentee/mail-in-ballot? Holy dumb-shit rationalization Batman. Like I said before, get involved locally if you want to change things. Stay the fuck away from my State with your wasted ideas. We have mail in voting...it worked fine. Sounds like the same bullshit I heard about restricting Airmen because they COULD do something that makes the AF look bad. You know, the shit we all bitch about? The sand in your vag should be a pearl by now for you to wear to your next Q-anon dance party.

Possibly sort of. https://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=1294

There are many units that don’t advertise. If there’s a unit you’re interested in, I would start calling immediately. As long as you’re respectful, it can only help you to get your name in early so you can find out their timeline and visit as much as possible.

Absolutely agree. Something needs to be done, but it requires investment (and maintaining follow-on support) in our voting infrastructure, and we as a nation don't like to maintain infrastructure. This should be a bipartisan effort

The soft bigotry of low expectations.

If they are "already working two jobs" don't you think they already have an ID? I've had a few people here, in probably the poorest state in the US, that I hired do some work on my small farm that you would consider poverty level folks. They all drove here, so unless they were driving without a licence they had ID. Many states offer no cost IDs, of course NM is not one of them.

Facts! And anyone thinking we're the only ones spying on our allies. We just got caught is all.

It's hilarious some people actually think any of this is new...

So this weekend's safety briefing is on wolverines and staying the hell away from them...

Yes ... the 99+% survival rate for military aged folks is very problematic

Funny how all those alleging election tampering in 2016 suddenly claim it couldn't have happened in 2020! Had Trump won, you can bet your last dollar the Democrats would be screaming the same tune when Hillary lost. Our electoral process has some major issues. Denying that is simply ignoring facts. How anyone can have total and blind faith in it after this past November is beyond me...

Oh cool. I haven't read the report on the potential long term effects of the vaccine. What did it say?

I mean, there was that whole deal from 1861-1865.

No one ever said what he revealed wasn't important. The problem was that he didn't do it through existing whistleblower channels endangering completely unrelated US assets in the process.

The VA found this comment not to be service connected.

Afghanistan

Thanks. Still doing some work trying to get the old iOS and Android apps updated and working again. No promises.

You know what actually surprises me, that there are dudes on here who apparently don’t see shit like this as a big deal. To the extent they either ignore it, or are incredulous to the fact it happens. To that point, you and others actually are trying to argue a well educated adult who has voted in many elections doesn’t know the difference between a ballot app vs. sample ballot vs. actual ballot. It’s laughable and sad at the same time, but enjoy keeping that cranium buried deep in the sand.

You could try and retain the experience instead of growing yourself out of the problem.

Is it hand cranked?

How about the profound silence of increasing the concealed carry on base? The Navy awarded those that responded and talked about how they ran unarmed toward an armed shooter. Should that not have caused them to think "why did our sailors have to run unarmed towards an armed shooter?" I fly with a 20mm gun that shoots 100 rounds a minute and live bombs going to the range. I'm trusted not to go crazy and go bomb or strafe the base and/or the nearby city, but can't be trusted with a concealed pistol before or after the flight.

Can this wokefest get its own thread?

This! I don't have cable, and have essentially blocked everyone on SM and the only thing on my feeds is stuff I'm interested in (mostly Aviation groups). Last Saturday someone posted on our Squadron group chat to avoid X part of town due to protests. I had zero idea what people were protesting about and had to look it up, which is when I heard about this incident. Today was spent tinkering on an N3N and a Stearman, then helped a guy who is building a Starduster, flew with a kid I'm teaching instruments, did a few pre-sunset grass landings in the Cub, then beers at my buddies hangar as we watched an amazing sunset. The world need less 24 hours news (err entertainment) channels and more sunset hangar beers!

Trump ain't going nowhere. Burn this shit to the ground.

Yeah man, those dumb poor black folk caint get themselves no ID. And you said "largely democratic" who can't get food on the table if they have to get an ID?