Leaderboard

You mean the Trumper’s here who were irate over sport players kneeling for the national anthem, but are now downplaying storming the U.S. Capitol, that costed a USAF veteran her life? Or currently trying to play the whataboutism game? Cult.

Ha, you assume that I care that the right has all the power. That said, I don't believe either party has any credibility to actually lose, so that helps keep me flippant. The far ends of both parties are complete clown acts right now.

What's tragic is that military officers on this forum can't see that.

Are you kidding? It ABSOLUTELY is quantitatively different when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES incites seditious activity against the VERY GOVERNMENT that he is supposed to lead! This is the United States of America. We don’t fucking do that here! The leader of the free world is attacking his own country because he can’t adult. It’s shameful. It’s dangerous, and it’s tragic.

I think you're misunderstanding the point I was trying to make. I don't claim to be a great writer so maybe some of that is on me. However, I am not trying to yell and scream "BUT BUT the libs did this and that!" I'm simply pointing out the fact that neither side has done anything for the last 4 years (and probably longer) to actually try and unite the country or cool down the tensions that are spilling over. Instead of taking the higher road and trying to be the party of leadership and unity, the democrats have often stooped to Trump's ridiculous levels and embraced divisive policies that do nothing more than continue to split the divide of this country right down the middle and feed the beast that is Trump and his cult. On the flip side tons of republicans spent years stonewalling everything Obama did simply because he was Dem, which basically created the wave of feelings that led to Trump. They then sold out their credibility to embrace Trumpism and now are left with that albatross hanging around their neck with no clear path on how to move the party forward and and actually become a party that can lead and unite Americans. I continually point out that I voted for Trump not to make a claim that I am a Trumper, or that I believe every single thing he did was good. I simply point that out to show that there are those of us out there who voted for him because the alternative options we were presented did not seem like better choices. That's a problem with our political system that we are so polarizingly (is that a word?) limited in our choices for elected officials. I'm not going to go point by point and argue each thing you listed out above because I think that takes away from the real point I was trying to make (again I'll take a hit for that due to my lack of written skill). What's really the issue is that everyone in our political system has played a big part in creating where we are now. I think arguing over the minutia of who is more at fault is just unconsciously retreating back into our own biases, of which I will admit I am occasionally guilty myself. I already stated above that yesterdays disgusting display falls on the shoulders of Trump and I also stated my disgust for his behavior since the election ended (not to mention the many things during his term I disagreed with). It's absolutely time for him to fade into the distance and have his legacy forever tarnished by the events of yesterday. But I cannot in good conscious sit here and look at what has transpired in our country recently and think that one person or one party is solely responsible for the mess we are in. TLDR; our political system and the soul of our country is broken and the blame for that can be laid heavily on everyone in Washington. This country needs a unifying center force that can mend many of these wounds. To Biden's credit he has said he plans to try and be that force. Can he do that and will other members of his party and the republican party play along? I'm not so sure. I am willing to give him the chance though. Edited for typos

No one's arguing that those BLM rioters are pieces of shit. No one. That's not the point. A key difference between the two is that the president of the United States was not the figurehead, orator, and leader sparking any of those riots.

Ehh. All this discussion of a coup attempt is gross overreaction, fear mongering, and ultimately, politicking. And yes, I do mean gross. Are people on this board seriously concerned that that small bunch represented an actual threat to the rule of this country? If so, how close did they come? If so, how close did you come to falling into lock step with your new rulers wearing MAGA hats and overalls? What New Yorker was going to wake up to the Times and just go "hmm, ok, well I guess this is what we got." Any real coup has an authentic chance of co-opting large swaths of a previous government. Today was not that. Sorry, but it just wasn't. What it is, is an opportunity for political money-making. Wake me up on the 20th if he doesn't leave office and there are armed government employees refusing to depart the White House. Until then/that happens, this is just more ugly game-playing.

Look guys, we’re not perfect. In fact, we’ve been pretty consistently far from it. Welcome to the human world. But despite our shortcomings, this country has, since its inception been the prime example of a nation made by the people, for the people. I’m tempted to lay into some of you for suggesting that we are no different or better than some third rate, corruption ridden banana republic. But I won’t. I won’t because I don’t think any of you really believe that. People don’t put on a uniform and serve with the distinction that differentiates the American serviceman from every other fighting man in the world unless they believe that their country is, in fact, exceptional. No American should accept the shitshow we’re witnessing today as just some expression of the new normal. It’s not normal as long as we refuse to accept it as such.

So does this mean they'll finally do something about this? or are we just focusing on race, religion, etc.? Asking for a friend.

We absolutely have been and should continue to be “above all this”. That is exactly what American Exceptionalism has always been about. The President (the fucking President....it boggles the mind) has done severe, maybe irreparable damage to that concept. Mayors and legislatures don’t symbolize freedom and democracy around the world. The office of the POTUS does. Or at least it did before today. If “we do have that here” now, it’s squarely because Donald Trump and his supporters decided to.

No, what's happening in DC right now is not right or justified; but calling this "protesting" wasn't either!

The real reason behind storming the Capital...

They did, I think social media pressure actually got them off their asses... Though they don't seem to have an easily accessible high quality version. Seems like they wanted to make the correction quietly... looks like vipers to me

Anyone that thinks the elections were stolen, full of fraud, etc. has been gaslighted. Trump, his family, his apostles, his subjugates, and his followers, are all brainwashed. I used to be surprised by stuff, but not much these days. This one has me surprised again, that so many in our nation are convinced that the election was stolen. The actions of those fucktards yesterday has brought great shame upon our nation. Out

Anyone who thinks this was a "coup attempt" needs to turn off the television and go oxygenate their gray matter a bit! It was simply a shit storm circus complete with a ringmaster and a full compliment of clowns on both sides. So, what is the road ahead? To be honest, there is a huge opportunity for the Democrats here that I doubt they'll take advantage of because they were just as involved in all this as Trump. I am sure they'll use this to push ridiculous, un-Constitutional legislation as much like the GOP, they have no real vision. Or, more preferably but less likely, they could make a real effort to unite this country but not taking advantage of this modern day equivalent of burning down the Reichstag to advance their absurd agenda for the next two years. Even Obama was smart enough to know to pick his battles, but honestly I am not sure Biden is that acute to such matters. Laying blame solely on one side or the other is the antithesis of "woke" (an overused term by those who think they are more "enlightened" than others, and are mostly wrong about it). Anyone who thinks this was a true coup attempt has swallowed too much misinformation from the media (the third guilty party in this shit show). Biden has a real opportunity to prove he can lead this country better than his predecessor, but I'm not placing much hope in that nor would I in Trump had he won. This country has been paralyzed by both political parties and despite attempts to muster up a third option, that simply isn't going to happen. I don't want to be a pessimist, but there's really not much "hope" to hope for! God help us all!

I honestly think a lot of you guys are all missing the point. Its particularly disgusting that far right wing Republicans did this, and some people here are backing this up. I will consent there is quite a bit of overreaction from the left. However, nothing really forgives the trespass on our institution this is. There was a group of people that upended one of though most important and sacred establishments of our country, democracy. To those of you on the left, equally shame on you. You revel in this like its some sort of victory. You cheer at the sight of your perceived enemies, who are actually your countrymen, collapsing under fears that their way of life is under threat. This is absolutely not the time to approach the situation with a smug "I told you so." The left is just as much complicit for this event as the right. Until people start turning inward and asking hard questions of themselves, this country is going to get no better. I'm honestly sick today. I woke up this morning and this was the worst news I could have read. I don't even want to go to work today.

If you think America’s standing was great until 2016, I suggest getting a new prescription. That said, his rhetoric is a problem. Has been for a while. But the institutions of this country are a lot stronger than he, or whatever this little band of jackasses who raided the Capital can do. So take a breath. The nation’s business will continue. It always does.

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Kaputt, you’re right. I misread your point. While I do disagree with some of the individual points you made, I largely agree with your overall sentiment as pointed out above. Here’s to all of us learning, growing, and becoming stronger from what we are currently experiencing regardless of political slant. 🍺🍺🍺

Let’s talk about this. Point 1: Vile hatred. Hard to disagree with that. However, there was plenty of vile hatred to go around for his predecessor who, regardless of your views on his policies, was at least a decent human being. Trump is a classless, base individual who’s greatest success in life was a reality TV program where he was known for summarily firing people. He incessantly attacked his political enemies and the media with juvenile language that my middle schooler finds laughable. Is it any wonder that a large portion of the population despised Trump from the get go (I’ll include myself in that group)? Anyone who supported Trump’s nomination should not be remotely surprised that he was a highly polarizing figure. In fact, I think most of his supporters reveled in that fact. They seemed really pleased by all the “liberal tears”. You don’t get to act all incredulous about the “vile hatred” four years later. You knew that was the case going in and that was part of why you liked the idea. You reap what you sow. Point 2: Riots met with tacit approval. By whom? I do believe that all leaders condemned that violence when it was going on. Questioning and/or criticizing police culture in America should not be conflated with approval of violence. What absolutely did not happen was any elected official actively calling on their supporters to start an insurrection, so sorry, no contest here. Isn’t it also interesting that when the protestors called themselves things like “Black Lives Matter”, the Capitol was buttoned down like a tank and the police and National Guard seemed ready for battle? But when the protest was and angry, armed white MAGA mob, they were able to breach the Capitol building seemingly uncontested? Things that make you go hmmmm. Point 3: The embracing of socialism. Again, by whom? This seems to be more of a trope advanced by right wing media than anything approaching reality. Remember, the Dems nominated the candidate that rejected their extreme wing. The R’s nominated the candidate who embraced and curated theirs. I’m not arguing the Dems don’t have serious problems or that their platform is summarily superior to conservative ideas. They do and it’s not. But what happened yesterday is wholly on Trump and his enablers and supporters on the right. Sorry, you don’t get to lump the rest of the country into this. If you supported Trump, you own this.

Awesome! I'm glad we're all in agreement that it wasn't an attempted coup. I had been hearing differently in the social media sphere, the news, and was starting hear the same bleed over into this forum. It's best when we keep the hyperbole to a minimum. I don't think you're thinking big enough. That is worrisome, to be sure, but what is worse is the continued divergence between the growing 'sectarian' realities that are continuing to find harbor in our country. That MAGA group yesterday is but one instance. The groups engaging in violence all summer long, were another. What I'm saying is that we're misidentifying the root causes and driving factors behind these events, but there is a way towards reconciliation. Honestly, the best thing we can do with Trump going forward, is to ignore him and let him fade into memory. Like others have identified on this forum, the Democratic party has a real opportunity to take an honest leadership role here. There has been real damage done to the Republican party (by the Republican party), but the Dem's only way forward is to make their bicycle look less broken (which they are not doing). What should they do, IMO? For starters, all discussion that frames yesterday as an attempted coup, has to stop. That goes for both Chuck Schumer (who is a piece of shit) and for Ben Sasse (who I admire greatly). All it does is polarize more people and allows them to reinforce their dug-in positions. In the same vein, likening yesterday to Pearl Harbor also has to end. Second, the Democrats need to step back and communicate to the American people a message that addresses the following: We (America) are obviously a divided nation. We (Democrats) won by the narrowest of margins. We (Democrats), unfortunately, have no "mandate" and we're not going to govern like we do. Any and all things we do in the next term will be from a position of true bi-partisanship. It's from this place that we'll reach out to Republicans to govern. Peace/truce. If I heard a speech (or saw governing) that covered those points, 1) I'd breathe a sign of relief because it would finally be a truthful, adult response, and 2) it would be the first time in the last four years that I would see any amount of reality come from the democratic side of the isle. But I'm not holding my breath for that. Reference all the coup talk, and the reference to a mandate from our friends at CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/georgia-election-wins-biden/index.html. We've got a mandate and we've got mounting expectations...awesome. I love being part of the 49.9% minority subject to the 50.1% majority. But yeah, mandate...keep your seat belts fastened.

One thing I agree with on here is I have absolutely no idea where the Republican Party goes after this. In the immediate days after the election I was hopeful that the party would find a way to capture some of the good Trump had done and some of the people he had converted from being traditional democrats to voting Republican, but also find a real leader who could distance him or herself from the many toxic traits Trump possesses and find a way to bring back unity, a clear message, and also some real fiscal conservatism. But Trump’s actions since the election have absolutely sunk that imo. My own father, by all rights a well educated, military veteran, executive at a mid-sized American made company, never a conspiracy theorist, etc... believes whole heartedly now that the election was a complete sham, that his vote is meaningless, and at least now claims that he will never vote in another election. Will he actually follow through with that in the future? Im not so sure, mostly due to the above listed qualities, but if someone like him is buying the Trump BS train right now, it’s an almost certainty there are tens of millions who will actually believe that our election system is rigged for the remainder of their lives. In fact I’d be willing to bet a large sum of money that the results of the GA special election are likely due to the fact that a significant percentage of Trumpers refused to show up at the polls.

Don’t act like you don’t know the name of that mag 😂

I wasn't a fan of peanut oil, though it works well enough that I'd use it if I ran out of my usual popping oil (especially over canola oil). I suppose avocado oil would work based on smoke point, but not sure how it'd affect the flavor, and is more expensive anyways. But you are 100% correct on the seasonings (Lawry's seasoning salt is my go-to seasoning, but I also have Tony Chachere's Creole Seasoning available with my popcorn supplies for when I'm in the mood for something different) I guess I'll fly my nerd flag: did a project during an experimental design class to determine the "best" jalapeno corn, as defined by popped volume, crispiness, and heat. Conducted a screening experiment looking at several variables: compared peanut oil vs the orville redenbacher popcorn oil, small amount of oil vs more oil, small amount of jalapenos (1-3) vs a more generous amount (6-9), and cheap popcorn (generic cheap kernels from the commissary) vs expensive (orville redenbacher) popcorn. Long story short, after a ridiculous number of batches of popcorn (70ish), the expensive kernels, more oil (3-4 tbsp oil to 1/2 cup kernels), and 6-9 jalapeno slices (literally, and cooked off for about a min before adding the corn, mt olive brand for reference) had the best success. The orville oil was a slightly more consistent with producing the results and flavor I wanted, though wasn't statistically different from peanut oil in producing the volume, crispiness, and heat I was looking for. Wish I could find the paper, but it's lost to blackboard online and I can't find my copy on my laptop. Outside the experiment, too many jalapenos adds too much moisture and makes for soggy popcorn, and is brand dependent, so I'd recommend sticking with one brand of jalapenos for consistency. I like mt olive jalapenos since they are sliced thin and crisp up consistently without being too hot (which means more crispy jalapenos per batch of corn). The Whole Foods bulk mixed popcorn kernels also works very well, and holds onto the jalapeno heat and flavor very well, maybe too well, and is great when I want a very spicy corn. Coconut oil makes for very crispy popcorn, but you've got to add melted butter after the fact, or use flavacol, otherwise it's a bit bland. If I want spicy corn but I'm out of jalapenos, about a tablespoon of sriracha sauce right after adding the corn works, though you lose out on the delicious crispy bites of jalapeno. And the infidel corn earlier in the thread is great, though the extra cleanup due to bacon grease makes it a once in a blue moon treat because I'm lazy. ETA: this is based on my experience in my home popcorn machine

Your characterization of the argument is disingenuous. Nobody here believes Trump is going to attempt, much less succeed, at using the military to attempt a coup. Only person who even used that word on here for the events that transpired today admitted it was too strong to use. This is about the extensive and generational damage Trump's rhetoric continues to have on our institutions via his supporters, and about the very real danger it will pose when millions continue to believe there is a deep state conspiracy that removed Trump, not to mention the damage our adversaries will take advantage of. The 'force' to be cautious with here is not the military, it's tens of thousands of armed Americans rallied under cries of 1776 convinced by a vile nihilism that everything is corrupted. Of course it remains highly unlikely that all will decide to enact violence, but even the smallest percentage deciding to revolt is a credible danger to the lives of many. The voices are there and they are real and being heard.

While the obvious concern that our Capitol building has been overrun is bad, I think the concern goes much further. Today we lost physical security of the Capitol building while Congress was conducting one of their most fundamental duties-certifying the election for president. Were explosives or traps left behind to target political opponents? I'm sure this is also a counterintelligence nightmare as well. Were recording devices left behind? Were computers and networks compromised (pictures were in the news of unlocked computer screens)? Access to classified? Was everyone rioting disgruntled Trump supporters, or is it possible foreign actors participated and took advantage of the situation? So maybe it wasn't a coup attempt, but that doesn't mean severe damage wasn't done to our government, much less to our image to the rest of the world. And that image (which I posit truly began in WW2) has been important in our foreign policy, as it's given us the moral ground (as a champion of democracy) in the past to push our agenda and advance our interests. And this loss to our world image comes at a time when China and Russia are trying to expand their influence in the world. No matter how well our military fights, if we lose our legitimacy for conducting our operations, we've lost the war.

I’m impressed you took the time to find that. Except I don’t consider the idiots storming the Capitol conservatives. True conservatives value rule of law and order, neither of which was embodied today. Goes back to my previous point that that the extremes don’t define the majority. So I fail to see your point.

Implying most people on here are actually officers and not just trying to join the guard because they lost their job as FO making $20k a year

Nihilism is one strategy I suppose.

Amen. The problem is that people have their political views inextricably tied to their identity and value as a person. This is where the whataboutism and equivocating and excuses come from. When your identity is wrapped up in politics it's more comfortable to keep doing that than admit you were wrong.

I assume he was saying this because he was defending all the people protesting/rioting over social justice issues when he says “great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long.” Right? That’s what he’s referring to, right?

I assume if martial law is attempted to be declared in 2 weeks, 100% of you will totally set aside all partisanship and defend the constitution. Reaction to the events of today - no, nothing to see here. It's just business as usual. It's always been like this. But when it actually matters, we'll care, promise.

Notice: this is how our GOVERNMENT functions right now. It's been like this for years. Some of us (me) see this as part and parcel of the same underlying issue - not about whether or not someone is wearing red, blue, or orange glasses. The issue, IMO, is who gets to define what reality is (i.e. we're flirting with themes from 1984). Notice how everything is about perspective and framing - what something is, and what it is not. We are arguing about what is real. Don't forget, rioting (/peaceful protesting, depending on what frame you like to use) has been going on all summer long. Does it surprise you that there is finally a riot from the right? While it is shameful (perhaps a contender for the "most" shameful award) that it was apparently encouraged by Trump today, it is not qualitatively different than what has been going on all summer long from top to bottom, including mayors, governors, senators, congresspeople, business leaders, news organizations, social media, etc (please note, I am not justifying ANY bad behavior, from either side). You name the thing, it has an agenda, a frame, a technological bubble to place you in, or an angle to push. And if you're me, what you've seen over the last four years is a ridiculous and hysterical obsession with how F'd up Trump is. You would think we're on the cusp of total collapse because of him. Frankly, it's been very petty, and in my view, it has been done intentionally and with design, because everyone knows that Trump is a little bit cranky and unpredictable...pester dad enough and he might lash out, which might work to your advantage...yes, I am that cynical about American politics and our media complex, which, let's not forget, are private companies (CNN = Time Warner, NBC = Comcast, ABC = The Walt Disney Company, CBS is a fusion of National Amusements, Paramount Pictures, and Viacom, Fox News = Fox, and so on...) whose ultimate motivation is profit, not rightfully informing you. Makes sense right? There's only so many different ways to dress up the truth. Reflecting on 2020, I'd say the largest event was COVID-19. IMO, that is what actually led to the riots. You had people out of work, out of money, cooped up inside, told they can't travel, told to wear masks, being given conflicting information, no end in sight, watching "Tiger King" for the 69th time, etc, etc. Seems like a good root cause to me. But no, what caused the riots all summer long? Race, according to the "experts;" according to doctrine. But is that view justified, at all??? Has it been effectively defended or challenged? Was 2020 an outlier in regards to police "brutality"? Not likely. Yet here's the debrief: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/06/2020-not-1968/, https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-brutality-coronavirus-trump-protests-ongoing-summer-2020/, the theme being, "it was caused by systemic mistreatment of blacks"...really? That's our root cause from this mission? Nah. Point being, we (America) have a split-view of reality. If you think only one side has scales on their eyes, I'm here to tell you the next four years are probably going to feel like the last four, and you'll still be wondering WTF if you think Trump is the root cause. Trump isn't the cancer, he's a symptom. This problem ain't going anywhere until we start discussing our problems from positions of good faith.

Never was a leader, cared about this wonderful country or its people.

Standard AF, call one woman a cunt and we all pay the price, amirite?

No one on this forum claimed that the right doesn’t / can’t riot. Most of us hate these idiots on the far right as they delegitimize our values. I would bet every Trump supporter in this forum, myself included, condemns this violence and hopes for a peaceful transition. Likewise we don’t claim that the actions of antifa are representative of the mainstream democrats. Groups should not be characterized by their worst people.

Because if the son of George Bush got millions in shady business deals obviously peddling access and influence via family connections to powerful gov officials while simultaneously getting paid by a company in a foreign country in a business he knew nothing about the media, deep state and Democratic Party would have been cool with that too? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here we go with the whataboutism

Focusing on the combat capability again.

not a huge fan of all the "censorship" talk seeing a lot of people make "lists" of people to "punish"...scary road to start going down for congressmen doing a constitutionally allowed objection...one that democrats have done in 2000, 2004, and 2016. we need to be careful...it makes me think that passions are being manipulated on both sides.

I'm opening "what-a-bouts" for this post. Does no one remember four short years ago when there was a concerted effort to get faithless electors to "subvert democracy" and "vote their conscience"? WTH does everyone think would have happened four years ago had that effort succeeded? Surely it would have been a peaceful transition when faithless electors chose a different president. I'm sure that wouldn't have disenfranchised large swaths of our nation. No, it wasn't endorsed by the sitting President, but why am I not surprised? Why does this just seem to 'fit' in with the rest of the other BS that's been going on? And again, the 'coup' talk is disingenuous. Where is the force that is going to back-up any of this? Honestly it's disheartening to think that so many of my colleagues harbor an actual concern that this threatened our way of life, because it implies you think that the military at large would fall in line with blindly carrying out orders from Trump. Frankly, I trust everyone I work with way more than that. I feel like I'm the guy down range getting bitched at by chiefs for wearing the "CTFO" morale patch.

Ah... don't try to fool me again, M2.

If we're having a national dialogue about a coup - defined by our major sources of news and other national leaders (senators) calling it one - then yes, there needs to have been a legitimate threat to our government/way of life. In our case however, it represents an opportunity for interested parties to cast it in a suitable way for future maneuvering. There was no danger to our way of life displayed today. When it's put forth in such hyperbolic terms, it further erodes trust in our institutions. In the last few years I have seen frighteningly few mature responses from nearly anyone in government. That our Capitol saw action is disheartening and shameful, and no one said I'm not pissed. I'm as pissed as I was this summer. Why I may come off as ambivalent at this point, is that this is one additional piece of the puzzle that's been coming together for years. Yeah, I guess if I viewed it in isolation it might piss me off in a more acute manner. But today wasn't 9/11 and it wasn't December 7th. And while my attitude may be gross to you on this message board, it's not having a societal effect on our national consciousness and making further civil discourse even more difficult in the same way our national leaders and news media are.

Just woke up on the other side of the world and heard "some people did something..." The internets are still cooking, so the lights must still be on. Are riots and protests a bad thing now?

I’d love to hear from Sim, Seadogs on your claim. Edited to add this gem on the differences of how police handled the peaceful protests/riots for social justice vs a violent breach of the nation’s Capitol. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ikrd/comparing-scenes-from-the-attempted-coup-to-blm-protests

Next up: Hilary’s emails and Hunter’s laptop.

Oh, and media is totally acting disgusting in this whole mess today. Totally agreed! You’re not the media, so I hold you to a higher standard [emoji23]. All depends on perspective. Sen Duckworth (sp?) was interviewed and said something along the lines of, “no I wasn’t worried, this is the Capitol for crying out loud, not Mogadishu!” Some other D, forget his name, decided to go the complete opposite direction with his comment talking about how incredibly scary it was. Let’s not diminish how serious it is by making it seem more of a threat than it really was. No real threat at all, but still a totally reprehensible crime and assault on Democracy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know if it's for another "first", or if it's because they fear Breyer getting old like RBG and losing another seat on the court at an inopportune time. Getting three SCOTUS picks will be the most lasting legacy for Trump's presidency.