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Why is the E-9 lapdog opening his mouth at all about an aircraft commamders decision? STFU.

This is why you don’t let non-pilots run flying organizations

Intrusive leadership that holds people accountable just sounds like toxic leadership with extra steps.

So the OG/CC won’t be there since he’s an ABM…

OG is pissed because it’s his fault and he knows it. Or maybe he doesn’t. A 12-hour off-circadian slip combined with no-go denial is just a result of poor planning from the leadership. And the Chief is an absolute fool. He keeps referring to “real world” but it isn’t. It’s some sort of IG-type exercise. “Directed by POTUS”, lol, sure. “Forget all that economy and G8 shit, what I really need to know is the readiness level of the 552 ACW!”

You can blame the officers who allow E-9s to act like E-9s. A true Chief is worth their weight in gold.

"safety is a driving factor" "and the procedures we have in place to triple check ourselves back up this assertion." ...like ORM and 11-202 crew rest requirements? ..That your OG just took a steaming shit on?

🤦🏻‍♂️ No one is talking about the hurricane hunters. And I'm not sure what airmanship or proficiency you gain by flying into a thunderstorm. Sounds like a good way to damage your aircraft and thereby reduce the combat capability of your unit. The point of the sign is you shouldn't take unacceptable risks in training. Get-the-job-done-at-all-costs-itis kills more people at home station than combat does. People regularly lose sight of the fact that they are conducting training and push things well past the margin of safety. As for this instance, the OG has the right to be pissed. His people couldn't execute when the time came. But his anger is directed in entirely the wrong direction, with a big bag of AFI ignorance to boot. Something in the chain broke down between the exercise planning and the squadron level where the aircrew were given a garbage plan. A good commander would have gotten up there and asked his people how this broke down to the point aircrew were forced to make that decision. And how they should approach exercises as a wing in the future so this doesn't happen again. But he didn't do that, and seems like a pretty big twat. I'll be eagerly awaiting the crucifixion.

Tinker AFB 552 ACW Update: Hitch kicks out Group level leadership (Donovan wasn’t present to start with) Starts the conversation saying it will be a listening meeting versus a chatting meeting, with the intent to clarify the situation, and where the Gp/CC was coming from. Makes some jokes about if anyone has seen the social media feeds, and says he’s seen the memes. “I Don’t Mind Memes”, adds a comment along the lines of if that’s your means for expression go for it. Starts with the misconception that ABMs don’t understand the struggles flight deck has, and says it’s not true, and that “We” trust you to make the decision/on safety. “I expect you to tell us when things aren’t right”. Jokes that he has good ideas, particularly like a 48 hour exercise. Clarifies that his expectation was to launch within 48 hours, and didn’t expect the 12 hour swap from day to night lines to occur during the exercise. He was expecting to stay within the same cycle, and seemed to also have been surprised as much as the crews were. “Pills are not the answer”. He explains that he doesn’t want a dependency on drugs to be our solution to getting the rest we need, and he expects “discipline” to fix our circadian rhythm without drugs. 7 minutes in, takes the first question for a “listening meeting”. From the crowd, former AMC pilot, explains how he used to swap circadian rhythms constantly, but that the use of no-go pills was a decision that should be left up to the individual and not taken away, since it is an approved option within regulations. Real world, it’s not just showing up ready to fly, but being prepared to have a 20 to 22 hour duty day, and by removing an available tool you’re limiting our capability. “Trust us to make the decision”. No real response from Hitch here. Wing staff Lt Col, suggested alternatives to running these exercises would be the utilization of pause ex in order to prove that the crews were able to show and maintenance was able to deliver the jets, and then restart the mission back on the same circadian rhythm or flight windows the crews were already having. Especially for a self induced exercise. Hitch, response was, “why do we do exercises, to show that we can do it”. Defends with the the transition from day to night wasn’t expected and normally crews are given 48 hours to make that change (i.e. the weekend). Mentions that it didn’t “compute” for the exercise, and it was an “unfair assumption”. “You guys made the right choice, the Vice was right.” “We backed you up on that right call”. Someone from the crowd mentions that wasn’t the tone they received from the Gp/CC during the berating session. Hitch, “I think your Gp/CC is an emotional guy, and he is invested in you”. Random Co-Pilot mentions that the biggest concern was if there was going to be changes to the AFI (11-202v3) due to the Gp/CC mentioning he would be making the cancel decisions for ACs. Hitches response, “the only changes that would occur would be to bring the Gp/CC in the loop, in order to assist with the notification process to HHQ”. He blames the exercise plan again for issues with rest. FE from one of the crews reiterate that the tone from the Gp/CC wasn’t simply disappointment or looking for answers to report up the chain, but had pushed a “No Fail” perception for the exercise, and the only reasons that the crews weren’t ready to execute could’ve been one of two things. 1). They were poor leaders, 2). Weren’t taking the exercise seriously. FE continues to explain that he had zero doubt that was the case for anyone he worked with, and they were taking the exercise seriously. Hitch responds, “I’m certainly not here to defend the Gp/CC”, “Disappointment is one thing, but there are some things that are not appropriate for the Gp/CC to let out”. Later in the brief he equates this to questioning the leadership abilities of the crew members. Hitch mentions, that sometimes stress and pressure is good, you need a fine amount of pressure. “I want to know if you were receiving good or bad pressure”. No one really wanted to respond to this specifically. Female AC from the crews, “No one questioned why?” Regarding why they were not well rested to execute the mission. “What about the timeline”. Explains the min turn times, and last minute changes during the exercise that left the crews blindsided and without time to adjust from day to night. Reiterating the required 48 hours to change, and that no-go pills were needed. Hitch responds, “I appreciate that, and that’s one of the many things we’re going to look at during our hot wash”. Copilot from the crews adds on that part of the concern that wasn’t addressed was his lack of currency. That he was on this exercise flight to get current, and with that mix of tiredness and having not seen a jet for at least 30 days are factors. Hitch responds, “we do need to address a FD currency issue, it’s a conversation we need to have”. Someone from the crowd, “I want to know if he’s (Gp/CC) being told he was wrong”. Hitch responds, “He is, and whether or not that leads to an apology I don’t know, but I can tell you he cares about you and trusts you. He’s been texting me at all hours of the night, asking what should I do about this?”. “I told him to be honest, and be humble with them, admit when you’ve made a mistake. I’m not afraid to fail, I fail everyday.” I wasn’t quick enough to get every bit of conversation. Sorry some things seem disconnected. Some other items discussed - SOF program isn’t where it should be, and the decision for cancellations is a telephone game where the real story doesn’t seem to get translated accurately by the end - Reiterates that leadership trusts their flight crews for the ORM assessments, but will ask questions, mostly because they need to report that further up the chain. He didn’t get an exact reason why the 3 crews canceled from the Gp/CC. - Mentioned the Gp/CC was interested in talking with everyone after the meeting, but left it up to us to bring him in or not. He (Gp/CC) did not get a chance to address everyone. - Mentioned multiple ways of addressing lack of flight crew currency. Crowd member mentioned currency is not proficiency. Continued to talk about other options ranging from like-aircraft just for flight deck training (other 707s), dedicated tankers, moving people around and/or trickling down the PFT pipeline, even turning off a squadron. - Mentions 4 + 2 on station timeline. 4 years on station, +2 more if you’re a “shiny penny” and are picked for the 966th. Someone retorted with based on 50 - 100 hours a year for co-pilots at the moment, it would take 7+ years to have the hours for AC upgrade, let alone IP/EP. - Tells us to ask COMACC some of these questions, since it is seriously being looked at for our platforms replacement, etc. Lastly, big ticket item. Someone mentions how he’s going to handle social media, and whether or not the Gp/CC will get fired, saying it may not be the best decision since it will prove to people that social media has that kind of power. Hitch responds with, “How do you think I should do it?” *laughs from the crowd* “I think I gave it a shot, and it didn’t quite work out”. *more laughs*. Leaves it up in the air on his decision whether the Gp/CC will still be around the next day or later on. Says he will not be addressing social media on this matter any longer. “I’ve got plenty of positive stories to tell, and I ask you to do the same”. Closes out with we’ve open the flood gates of communication, and asks for help to make the Wg better. Says to make sure to talk to your Sq/CC first, and then we can talk to him.

I can think of 4 or 5 off the top of my head that were worth their weight in gold. All are/were in the ANG with me. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Mid-late 90s OPS TEMPO you say? 30 day deployments, every 3+ years, with only the occasional long TDY in between. Sign me up! If I knew we wouldnt be deploying every 19-24 months, on a waste of time deployment, I would potentially stick around a bit longer.

In the immediate, things will reset. The forces will start to flow back home and elsewhere. Training will uptick, missions will downtick - initially. Then the shit hits the fan. No Afghanistan means GREATLY reduced TWCF missions, and with it flying hours, seasoning, and funding dollars. AMC is in a bad spot. Commercial augmentation will also reduce, and airlift will start flying channel missions again, but not enough make good on the loss of FHP. Commercial cargo airlines will start beating Congress because USTC cuts commercial cargo flow to save the crew force (follow the money), and crews will start starving for ANY flying in about 8-12 months. And then the fun part - the FY23 budget is going to be a cut to the bone. Force reductions are coming because we can’t afford modernization, recapitalization, and people all at once. They’ll pay pilots to get out. Some wings are going to shutter. Some jets are going to the boneyard. And it’ll last for a couple years. And then the “new new new normal” will be set. Start looking at the mid-to-late 90s as the benchmark for what AMC flying will look like - just not as heavy (Balkans, ONW/OSW replaced by routine trips/deployments to Saudi/Kuwait/etc). Make your plans wisely. Unless there’s a pop up conflict, that’s what’s on the horizon. Chuck

You can always route federal funding to “resource” the base with Federal employees, despite the fact it has no real mission or justification for maintaining what is there in place. Fort Knox is a good example of this. No way the vault and Human Resources Command justifying the amount of real estate and support infrastructure that is on a base that used to maintain the Army’s second largest training intake BCT and the entire Armor and Cavalry branch schools. But still gotta pay all those range control guys to drive around on roads and make sure nobody is back there hunting without a pass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see any wings shuttering. If we didn't close any after kicking 25,000 people out in 2012-2013, we're not going to do it in 2023. Congress loves to save money in the military budget, but they hate the idea of losing the base in their district.

A true chief then is a unicorn.

This situation highlights multiple areas that need to be discussed. I can see where every person involved felt justified in their position. From my MAF viewpoint, this seems like a failure in the Mission Planning Cell. The 12 hour minimum show time is a shit plan for a local exercise. Personally, the OG/CC was placing his frustration at the wrong people. We give the A-code to the pilot to make the best call for the aircraft. There’s a level of trust that’s earned/expected; and to second guess them, because of a negative exercise metric is bad leadership.

Well he did a massive favor for the pilots on their future airline interviews by providing pure story-time gold! “TMAAT you disagreed with a superior/demonstrated leadership/upheld flight safety…”

Agreed, there's a weird sentiment in some communities that go/no go's are like a break glass kind of thing or only restricted to combat ops, and it makes zero sense. Getting adequate crew rest is a concern no matter what type of mission it is.

Well that's their mission, not training, which is what the sign is getting at. I agree in one sense because we won't even fly through a thunderstorm on a combat mission. We'll fly around it, but never through it. More on the subject in the context of this conversation. I've never shown up to work only to been told to go home and come back in 12 hours to go fly without being offered go/no-pills. If this training was important enough, then the docs would have given them the pills.

For discussion purposes only: I don’t agree with that sign. As a practical matter, ask the WC-130s. As a philosophical matter: How can you know where the real edges are in combat if you never explore them in training? Lot of people out there unwilling to approach a training limit who are simultaneously certain they can react like pros if contingency circumstances required it. They’re wrong.

Refresh my memory— why was Trump impeached by the house in 2019? Because I thought democrat arguments were that illegal WH influence was through implied rather than explicit statements. A fundamental problem in our country is political tribes that justify any behavior from “our” guy while condemning all behavior from “their” guy. This is why Hunter Biden isn’t in jail on felony gun charges. And why the obvious C19 lab leak was hidden, etc. The hypocrisy makes compromise impossible. Which is the goal; how do you guys think this ends?

Glad to hear hiring is turned back on. Hopefully, the food will be better by the time you get here.

Holy smokes dude, if anyone is chugging down propaganda from media shills, its you. Antifa has gone more quiet because a leftist administration that has worked to advance many of the things they demanded is now the regime in power. The notion that they are just hippies that don't like neo-nazis is f*cking laughable and makes me wonder if you aren't just trolling. Or maybe you really believed that the shit that went down over the summer of 2020 was just a "summer of love". Hunter's laptop story was effectively silenced by big tech. And the whole Hunter Biden story only continues to get richer (just like Hunter Biden) as anonymous buyers pay massive sums for his garbage art, sums that not even established artists could pull down for their works. Wonder where that money is coming from? BLM as an organization that simply wants black lives to matter as much as white ones is a flat out lie and a quick scroll through their own website will tell you as much. It has literally been defined, linked to, etc.. multiple times in this very thread.

The thing that pisses me off the most here is that while we all shit-sling about CRT, there actually is a topic that, if you taught it to every child in America, would go a long way in leveling the playing field Democrats are so convinced is systemically unfair. That topic is called Basics of Personal Finance. Proposed lesson plans include: What is interest? How can it work for me and against me? How does a loan work? How do credit cards work? How do I make a budget? How much should I save and for what? What is a retirement plan? How do I invest my money? What is appreciation and depreciation? The fact that financial literacy is not regarded as the absolute most important thing to teach in public school has always blown my mind. I had a substitute teacher play Dave Ramsey videos for a week once in 11th grade, and if I hadn't already been taught most of those concepts by my parents it would have been the most consequential week of education in my life.

Yep. When I joined the Bill Gates fan club I got my little orphan Annie secret decoder ring and have been receiving messages from the Gates-Clinton-Soros cabal ever since with Marxist talking points attached. SMH. Simply giving my opinion that this is just the latest boogeyman for the right out of a long list of things that have really turned out to be not much. Example: remember ANTIFA? I thought they were taking over and that due to their highly organized and dangerous tactics we’d all be mandarin speaking marxists by now. For such an existential threat to our society they sure seem to have disappeared quickly. What about Hunter’s laptop? I thought there was devastating evidence that was seemingly continually about to be released. The shills on the right seem to have lost interest in that one. The list of right wing phantom threats goes on and on. Somehow all of them seem to be Marxist in origin as well. What’s with that? From my perspective nobody seems to be able to define CRT. Many of the people advocating for it appear to be arguing for nothing more than adding a dose of realism to the history that is taught in our country. The right seems to be very good at defining and demonizing many of these movements. BLM: A simple idea that Black Lives Matter as much as white ones? Nope. It’s a Marxist plot to overthrow the American way. ANTIFA: A bunch of hippies who don’t like neo nazis? Nope. It’s a Marxist plot to overthrow the American way. Democrats: A sometimes overly sensitive group of heavy spenders who nevertheless want to see The United States improve and succeed? Nope. A Marxist plot….well you get the picture. CRT is just the latest leap the right is making in order to keep its base energized. It’s all getting a bit stale for those of us non-Tucker, non Alex Jones consumers.