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Fuck yeah. I think there are incredibly few people who flew mil aircraft and truly regretted it. Sure you may punch at 10 because it became “not worth it” anymore, but even if that happens, you got your ticket to the airlines paid for (if that’s your longterm goal) and you’ll still have awesome experiences and memories that no civilian will ever have. Im sitting equal with guys who threw bags, flew night freight, then slung gear in the regionals for peanuts for a decade…there’s not a bad day in the AF that could make me wish I had that guy’s path instead of mine. To each their own.

If I get COVID, I have a 99.9% chance of living (source: CDC, my age group). It’s actually higher than that since that includes all the comorbidity deaths, but close enough for discussions sake. VAERS is reporting 0.27% rate of adverse events amongst my age group. So from a statistical standpoint, I incur more risk of an adverse event from the vaccine than I gain in decreased risk of death. Now, we’re splitting RCHs like you read about (well, before the 2013 purge anyways), so maybe that’s the point…there’s so little to be gained (statistically) for a healthy individual when it comes down to an unemotional risk vs. reward standpoint. Now before you stop reading, know this is a baseline assessment - throw in factors like high risk family members at home, you’re not a healthy individual (whether your fault or not), etc. can logically out prioritize the above. Now throw in more subjective factors: - knowing people who have died, or are currently suffering long term negative effects, from the vaccine (anecdotal, but you can’t discount that factor in someone’s thought process) - suppression of information/voices that cast negative light on, or question the vaccine - The very authoritarian way the govt has pursued vaccination with a shocking rate of goal post moving, “experts” being completely wrong an inconceivable amount of times (but you should still completely follow what we say without question), etc. - No longterm data on this vaccine…that’s a fact, but subjective on the definition of “long term” So, it’s not hard to see how people make a very rational decision to not get the vaccine in the near term. Just the same as people make a rational decision to get the vaccine for various reasons. But, to make a statistical-based argument for healthy people to get the vaccine (without knowing their personal situation) is just pissing into the wind. Even worse is refusing to acknowledge this and attacking those who chose opposite of you. I believe people can choose either way while doing so logically and rationally, depending on their specific life circumstances.

As much fun as this highly productive conversation is.. I'm still waiting for a single shred of reputable scientific evidence that points to the vaccine being unsafe in any way. We've heard an awful lot of anecdotal and hypothetical concerns with precisely zero evidence to back any of it up. You guys keep saying you've poured over the data and made highly personal risk/reward calculations which led you not to get the vaccine. Except not a single one of you can cite data on these risks you keep talking about. The only hard stats anyone seems to have is the endlessly repeating "I'm not in the vulnerable demographic" argument. But that isn't how you do a risk analysis. You're forgetting about the whole other side of the equation where there's an extremely low risk mitigation measure (the vaccine) which can reduce whatever covid risk you do have by 90+ percent.

Clearly you did not actually read most of the posts from the "anti-vax crowd." Most of them had absolutely nothing to do with spite. And most of them had nothing to do with politics or "owning the libs." Such a position would be a bit strange, considering Trump was the main reason the vaccines were rolled out so quickly in the first place... Agree, this thread has become a complete waste of time, particularly because of people like you who are gaslighting the hell out of everyone and saying things like people who have some rational hesitancies towards the vaccines think of themselves as "William Wallace fighting the British Vaccination squad."

I think you’ll find the UCMJ supports your commanders’ decisions to ensure your vaccination record is current and complete. Can you imagine the pandemonium that would result if individual service members were allowed to pick and choose what mobility requirements applied to them?

Remember 14 days to flatten the curve? (Pepperidge farm remembers) is the current goal zero infections or don’t overwhelm the medical system?

Irony is a two-way street: lots of people wearing pussy hats and screaming about a women’s right to make her own choices regarding abortion (despite what the father thinks) who are now 100% good forcing an injection into women concerned about second order fertility effects. Disgusting. I like the red herring spear at bible thumpers. As if they had anything to do with this conversation. Some people just love tyranny, and hate debate.

Thats not true. The vast majority of people with covid either dont know they ever had it or have mild symptoms. Some people get flu like symptoms that kick their ass for a few days, but the # of people hospitalized vs + cases does not support your statement.

I think things are great! Come on in the water is fine.

This brings up something I’ve noticed for years. In today’s day and age, nearly all demographics or groups of people are protected. You know the whole social justice warrior culture. We’ve got racism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc. There are words used to describe malice towards religious people as well like islamophobia and anti-Semitic. Christians are fair game though. Nobody blinks an eye when someone like @TheNewGazmo overtly denigrates Christians. It certainly shows what kind of person you are dealing with.

Without resorting to bible thumping, do you not recognize or understand that a pregnant woman is two separate (albeit connected) beings with different DNA? A person can be charged with double murder if they kill a pregnant woman. At the very least, we can at least agree that our laws are schizophrenic on the issue (at best). Conflating these two issues is a stretch. And throwing the "bible" poop at the wall in an attempt to relegate the view to a simple-minded, and/or limited to religious objection is side-stepping the actual issue. My gut tells me that abortion is wrong - at the very least becomes more wrong the further into a pregnancy a woman gets. I don't need to appeal to any book or religion to arrive at that conclusion. Yours is the same argument anti-gun nuts make when they "ok" gun use for hunting or sporting. Which, sorry to say, is not what the 2nd amendment is about.

I've spent a fair amount of time around the airshow circuit, with pilots that perform with what many of us would consider "reduced margins". When things don't seem right... when you're not "on your game"... when you don't feel you have the ability to safely perform a demanding routine and the consequences are significant... you step back and say "today, I will stand down.". I've done it myself in the airshow industry... and I (and many of us here) have done it in our day-to-day operations with extremely expensive tax-payer-bought gov't aircraft. If someone at Red Flag exceeds RM tolerances and says "not today, folks", are they ridiculed? I really don't know much about Biles, gymnastics, Olympics sports... and I really don't care. But having watched the stuff she does, it is highly dangerous/risky. If she isn't on her game, she would be foolish to continue and risk a serious injury. Most of us here have impressed on our kids that they must "complete what they start". They don't want to play soccer one weekend when they would prefer to go to the zoo... well, you made a commitment. Instilling in them a sense of responsibility to the team is a far cry from insisting that they push through something extreme/dangerous when they KNOW they cannot succeed. If Ms Biles says she isn't up to performing the crazy shit she does... that less than 100 people out of 7,000,000,000 on the Earth can do... then, she should walk. And give the middle finger to anyone who objects.

US-Mexico border arrests in June are highest in at least a decade - CNNPolitics After Border Patrol release, asylum-seekers test positive for Covid in Brownsville, Texas (nbcnews.com) The border remains an absolute shit show and I honestly think its the hot button item that pisses me off the most about this administration. Open borders and shipping COVID positive illegals around the country meanwhile lecturing the rest of the American public about how we need to keep up the fight against COVID. If you cared so much about COVID maybe you wouldn't let hundreds of thousands of people stream across our border in less than 6 months. It's become quite obvious that the border is being purposely left open as there has literally been zero action to stop this. And it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to realize that its likely a democrat plan to use demographic change to ensure votes. Actually pretty disgusting when you really think about it and its really infuriating that it seems this administration cares more about non-citizens than actual Americans.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Making assumptions based on unpredicted risk is a routine part of risk calculation. There isn't a lack of scientific evidence because scientist couldn't find any. There is a lack because they haven't tried, largely inhibited by the resource (time) they need to perform such a project. You better believe that there are universities who will study control groups 10 years from now and compare to vaccinated groups to look for things like increased risk to common ailments, etc....

Okay! This is at least a data point. I appreciate you. Here's my counter argument. VAERS adverse reaction rates vs covid death rates isn't an apples to apples comparison. Those stats are measuring two entirely different things. It would make more sense to compare adverse vaccine reactions to adverse covid reactions. And in that department I think you will find adverse covid reactions to be way way higher because an "adverse event" for covid would basically be any symptomatic case. The other problem with this data point is that vaers reporting adverse vaccine reactions is simply a mechanism to report any significant health issues people get after they've had vaccine. Doctors, healthcare workers, and individuals can all submit reports so it is important to understand that vaers is a gigantic, low fidelity data dump that they use to guide further medical research. A condition being listed on vaers does not mean it was caused by the covid shot. The CDC site explains this: If a health problem is reported to VAERS, that doesn’t mean that the vaccine caused the problem. It warns vaccine safety experts of potential problems that may need investigation and alerts them to take further action, as needed. Millions of people in the United States have received COVID-19 vaccines. Other than rare reports of severe allergic reactions, analysis of VAERS reports has not detected any patterns that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.

Shack. At the end of the day this thread is nothing but a bunch of strangers throwing web links at each other and calling each other idiots. I don't take medical advice from strangers I meet on the sidewalk. Nothing here is going to change my mind. On the other hand I have been entertained by all the deranged socialists foaming at the mouth at every post that doesn't fall in line with the Ministry of Truth.

Military: Established that you need to take vaccines. Experimental vaccines, open question. Civilian: Doesn't matter if it's a sugar pill. Can't make anyone take it for any reason whatsoever.

"Forcibly injected against their consent?" You know it's an all-volunteer force, right?

IFS has been IFT for years at this point Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like a setup you might’ve seen on the old Top Gear. Give the guy in the trailer a paintball gun with the objective of blacking out competitors’ visors/windshields. I’d pay to watch (that’s what your mother said last night Trebek!).

Who is 100% good forcing a vaccine on anyone? Honest question. There are a lot of us that believe the only way out of this pandemic on anything resembling an acceptable timeline is through mass vaccination. Doesn’t mean I’m for government mandated vaccines. Military is a different story. As mentioned by an earlier poster, regardless of any efficacy argument, if I’m senior leadership I want my military population as close to 100% vaccinated if only for the simple fact that it will make global deployment and travel that much easier. What I absolutely do support is any employer’s right to require their workers to be vaccinated. That is backed up by the law and a completely different animal than government mandated jabs.

Found your vaccination card.

The AF has been in deep shit for a while. They just had a COVID induced loss of sensory information and haven’t been able to smell it for the last year and a half.

Now thar so much more is coming out, it’s clear this entire thing was the bullshit many of us suspected from the start. A Chinese bio weapon escaped from a lab funded by the very people insisting it wasn’t. Masks were just a distraction to avoid this fact, and the doctors forcing masks compliance knew they were useless. Medically valid and effective treatments ignored and derided to push experimental vaccines. Those vaccines now mandated for college students in little danger from C19, but the vaccines are making their hearts explode. Medical doctors censored and banned from media for pointing to evidence. Have all the “conspiracies” come true or only most? 3 years ago, I wouldn’t have believed anything this insane and dystopian could rapidly grip America. I was totally wrong. We are living in scary and unpredictable times.

The current 2.5 studs at RND don’t show up to the T-1…they get some academics and sims/VR and then it’s off to the FTUs.