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Holy shiite this thread is scaring me. I can't believe this group has so many authoritarians in it. I assumed we were all Americans and mostly military members or at least members who served and swore an oath to defend the constitution. Some of you are straight out militant on your authoritarianism. Hopefully you are talking shit like you are sitting at a bar, otherwise you should be separated immediately and not placed any any senior level position.

Update So, basically were looking at 1 Year for GE and Pratt to appeal the decision. 2 Years to build the first 8 motors. 2 Years to modify the airframe and avionics. 2 years worth of flight testing at Edwards. Air Force asks Congress for funding for the program. Congress cancels engine program, Proposes buying additional B-21s.

Correct me if I am wrong but, I believe diversity is an old old wooden ship used in the civil war era.

are we really arguing whether ethnic/racial slurs are ok? WTF is going on

Let me ask the mods directly: Why have my posts taking issue with another member’s use of a racial slur been removed? I see the post with the slur is still up. Please don’t tell me you are ok with a post using the word “ch**k” but not with posts questioning whether we want that here. I have enjoyed the banter here for many years. It gets spicy at times & is definitely not constrained by political correctness. That said, I believe racial slurs cross a line & that said line exists on this forum. I’d really like to continue to believe that is true.

Fine, he's not a racist by your definition, but a bigoted ass. Just as bad on my book. The "not technically a racist" argument is garbage and misses the point that you shouldn't tolerate denegrating people solely for what they look like. Diversity training is being forced on us because there's a perception that we couldn't provide protections for federally protected categories, including race, ethnicity, sex, national origin, etc, on our own in the military, so now it gets Congressional attention. Plus, if a person is trying to denegrate you got how you look, they don't really care if they used the "right" slur, the intent is to denegrate you and make you feel like crap. But you're right, nothing protects us from being offended or made to feel uncomfortable. Until it's been brought into work, in which case there are legal protections, especially in government service. "But BO.net is basically bar banter.". Yeah, but those opinions don't magically change in the office. Maybe better hidden, but still there, and can be hard to prove that people get screwed over. As officers and leaders within the military, we need to ensure this crap isn't tolerated in our ranks so we can ensure we present the best fighting force we can, and not allowing personal prejudices on protected categories influence the meritocracy we strive for in the military. We shouldn't tolerate people who degenerating others based on their race/ethnicity/national origin/sex/etc within our ranks, both on or off duty. Edit-Spelling/autocorrect

I'm aware, question was rhetorical/sarcastic.

Thank God for Manchin.

This attitude drives why we have to waste time with diversity training, and why there's a push to do more diversity training across the force. Either way, it's unacceptable behavior, especially for what I'd assume it's from an officer in our military. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism "4. racial or ethnic prejudice or intolerance." Oxford dictionary "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized." I'll grant you that some dictionaries (Merriam Webster) only refer to race and not ethnicity in their definition. Though the meaning of words do shift, and some dictionaries are slow to capture how words are now being used. Or we could call him a bigot if you refuse to believe the meaning of words change over time. Then again, a lot of anti-Chinese sentiment does get placed on Asians in general. And having been on the receiving end of those kind of slurs, including the one being debated, I can assure that it often is used as a racial slur and not just as an ethnic slur.

It was developed and then released from a Chinese laboratory. In China. Who would you pin it on? Are you getting your news from Chinese state-run media?

So because it was “directed at China” that makes the slur okay? I’m sure there are millions of people of Chinese descent living in the US and elsewhere who would give you a pass for using it with that explanation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't drink, so it wouldn't bother me. But I have plenty of family and friends who drink responsibly, and think it's worth covering as it's common enough of a vice. Plus it's hard for insurance companies to measure "too much" alcohol consumption, especially compared to something like tobacco use. I don’t think it’s hard for medical providers to determine if the need for care had to do with consuming alcohol—certain liver issues, injured while driving intoxicated, etc. So why cover it at all? No one needs to drink (I no longer drink as well), so why cover what isn’t necessary? The only way to fix our medical/healthcare system is to totally remove the government regulations forcing hospitals to provide care, forcing insurance companies to cover high risk individuals, etc. But since the vast majority of Americans have been conditioned to believe that more government involvement improves their lives, well, here we are. Oh and the people I know who are refusing the shot are some of the healthiest I know—not overweight, exercise regularly, eat well, you name it. So whoever posted the opposite, here’s another anecdotal data point.

It’s gone so I can’t go back and look, but IIRC it was directed at China, not “Asian persuasion,” since it was in the context of the Wuhan Virus. I could be wrong, though. I think we throw around “racist” far too much.

I'm late to the fight. Use of racial slurs will absolutely not be accepted. Not in original posts or quotes. I'm removing them now. The original poster has been warned and all of his content must be approved by a moderator UFN. Prozac, your posts were hidden because you quoted the racial slur. I don't really have the time nor inclination to deal with racial slurs, in original posts or quotes. Knock it off

I don’t have enough words to describe the amount of disgust I feel for you if you look at your fellow squadron members who are making the hardest decision of their life as a promotion opportunity for yourself. Your brain is broken for even thinking that way. As a senior leader, I have had grown men come to my office and completely break down. It’s heartbreaking to watch some of the most competent and loved informal leaders describe their position on these mandates. They have legitimate concerns based on personal factors.

Apologies.

Perfectly said! It's not worth dwelling on, even though I've always found that difficult personally, just because I've never been able to grasp the logic. I am getting excited about the flying opportunities once I get out though, and hope you are too. Even the civilian world offers more exciting stuff than you will ever have the time to pursue.

Pawn. That’s disingenuous. You’re stretching things to try and make a point and cause drama outside the truth. No one defended his use of the word. The people that brought up “Chinese isn’t a race” as you put it were just correcting the use of the word racist against it. No one defended him or the use of the word. So get real for a second bro. Have a beer. It’s Friday. Not everything is meant to cause you stress or a response from you. (Hardly anything if anything at all I would argue). You don’t have to be offended by everything.

Guess so. This is the first time here on the forums I've seen someone use a blatant slur...I guess I was a little taken aback at how many people jumped in to defend it as "Chinese isn't a race".

Jazz dude. Please explain how correcting peoples use of the often incorrectly used word racist means that we need diversity training? How does me agreeing that it’s a bad word and I don’t use it nor agree with its usage mean we need diversity training? You can’t lump what he did into a broad spectrum definition of racial or ethic prejudice or intolerance and then say he is racist for using a word that doesn’t describe race. If someone used a slur against me that didn’t apply to me and they were trying to use it in a racist way when it clearly can’t be by definition that would just make me turn inward and laugh at how stupid that person is. Not take offense for their poor use of language. I think people often forget that the constitution and bill of rights don’t give you the right to not be offended. In fact if that were a thing, we wouldn’t be the country with the most freedom of speech in the world. Because to have open dialog you have to risk offending the other person because of their beliefs.

https://www.stripes.com/covid/2021-09-29/coronavirus-vaccine-military-mandate-lawsuit-service-members-3070322.html WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs respectfully ask this Court to: A. Find that the use of Pfizer-BNT COVID-19 vaccine for forcible inoculation of U.S. military members to be illegal until and unless the Secretary of Defense complies with his statutory requirements in requesting a waiver of informed consent and until the President makes the requisite finding under 10 U.S.C. §1107; and B. Find that all members of the Plaintiffs’ class that have survived infection with COVID-19 are still entitled to a medical exemption from vaccination even after the Defendants have complied with their legal obligations under the implementing DoDI 6200.02; If applicable, C. Find that the use of vaccines under an EUA is illegal until and unless all of the Defendants comply with their statutory obligations in requesting a waiver of informed consent under 10 U.S.C. §1107a and the implementing regulations and laws; D. Find that all members of the Plaintiffs’ class that have survived infection with COVID-19 are entitled to individual assessment to determine their eligibility for a medical exemption from vaccination even after the Defendants have complied with their legal obligations under DoDI 6200.02; Plaintiffs also ask this Honorable Court to: E. Find and declare that any order issued by DoD requiring the Plaintiffs to receive inoculation with COVID-19 vaccines are per se unlawful; F. Enjoin the DoD from vaccinating any service members until this action has completed and the status of any vaccine has been determined and the requirements for taking away Plaintiffs’ rights of informed consent have been met; and G. Award Plaintiffs their costs and attorneys’ fees and any other relief this Court may find appropriat covid_lawsuitamended.pdf

That's where we are. I feel like some of the posters have become the super old GS civilian when forced into the diversity training... which apparently we need more than I thought.

Let me guess. The MECs you were pulling were overwhelmingly ones overhauled at AF Depot while the most reliable ones were overhauled by the OEM. 🤨

Fine. Chinese isn't a race, but it is an ethnicity. So it's not a racist slur, but an ethnic slur. Not really any better in my book.

Needs more punisher logo

And? The term that was used is a racial slur against folks of Asian persuasion. Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Point of order - China is a country not a race.

My point is right at the top of this forum’s section it says “keep it civil, don’t abuse this forum”. Are you cool with dudes/dudettes going after people’s spouses/kids on here?

Yes and no. They don't spread exponentially but they without a doubt affect others - and in some cases can spread. If you really think there is only impact on an individual for any of those items, I'd be happy to share many tales proving otherwise from my days in EMS.

I get that you vehemently disagree with his positions on the vaccine and vaccine mandates but why go questioning his ability to raise his kids? It does nothing to advance the conversation/discourse.

Why did they not include any patient outcomes? We want to avoid hospitalization and death- that is the important thing, not total “cases”. I thought the purpose of the vaccine now was to reduce symptoms? PCR is not to be used as a stand alone diagnostic tool, yet it was: “* Case-patients were eligible for inclusion if initial infection occurred during March–December 2020, and a subsequent positive nucleic acid amplification or antigen test result was received during May–June 2021 (using date of specimen collection). Cases for analyses were restricted to persons aged ≥18 years at time of reinfection.” Placed have been forcing testing upon unvaccinated people much more than those vaccinated, so the total pool of positive PCR tests is likely much larger for the Unvaccinated group than the Vaccinated group. Maybe almost “2.58” times more, I don’t know, they forgot to put that in the study. Why is the CDC revoking approval of PCR in December? Notice that it did not mention the cycle threshold of the PCRs used in the study. also isn’t the vaccine aiming to achieve what survived natural infection would do, but with less risk?

I haven't changed CFM56's frequently, always dropped them on 737's classics and NG's for lease returns but I have changed a crap load of MEC's, probably the engines weakest feature. Always wondered why the USAF never got thrust reversers for the 135 then I worked on a E-6 and I figured out why. The 135 hydraulic system would have to be seriously upgraded to handle the volume and pressure of fluid to actuate them. So just replacing the steel brakes with carbon fiber is cheaper.

Smith & Wesson just announced that they’re moving its HQ and most operations from Massachusetts to Marysville TN. Well done! https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/smith-wesson-relocate-headquarters-tennessee-130100893.html

Yeah, but if you don't get it more 80+ year-olds will die. Or maybe some kids? No no, some other unvaccinated people who have accepted the risk. Or the hospitals will overflow? I forget. At the end of the day I'm beginning to think this fell along predictable political lines because it's actually a fairly representative disease of conservative vs progressive ideology. Conservatives (today, in the past it was the classical liberals) accept the fallibility and irrationality of individualistic humans and construct a system that works around those constraints (e.g. capitalism, freedom of speech). Liberals disregard the clearly observable limitations of human nature in pursuit of a "perfect" solution, and willfully ignore all evidence of their strategy's failure well past the point of hopelessness (e.g. socialism, climate change, war on poverty). Same goes for the disease. Masks work (science), but mask mandates do not (human nature). Sure, a virus can't spread through a population that doesn't interact, but lockdowns are not in compliance with human nature either. And in further accordance with progressive ideology, when your plan based on centralized control fails, demonize people and pour obscene amounts of money on the problem.

Working on that. If I was single I would walk away, but I have a wife and three year old daughter who I love more than anything to consider. Someone with IP experience in the 18, 15, and 35 can surely find employment somewhere I’d imagine.

Sounds like a legit case for an exemption.

Whose name did you check on the box? Don't excuse yourself from your decision. Energy independence is a bad thing? The media dismantled our credibility with its incessant "Trump-this" and "Trump-that." The constant falsehoods were laughable. Thoughts on the $3.5T spending plan which is actually going to cost closer to $5-5.5T? Oh wait, disregard, President Biden says it won't cost anything. My mistake. What do you mean is it worse now? I am being threatened with a dishonorable or other than honorable discharge from the Reserves after 15 sat years, 3 deployments, one to combat where I employed multiple times. I have multiple decorations but because I am hesitant to receive a vaccine that has been known to cause increased and more severe seizure activity in those diagnosed with epilepsy, like myself, I am going to get discharged adversely? That's interesting because it doesn't seem like it. MANDATED VACCINATIONS are being required or you will lose your job and ability to provide for you family - I also stand to lose my job as an fighter pilot instructor as a civilian if I don't get the vaccine. But sure, if that's how you feel... Feelings are what matter most, after all - Right? The path forward is recognizing that people who didn't take care of this caused this "pandemic." Now all the healthy people who make proper choices are being asked to subsidize their poor decisions. I'm sensing a theme with the party you voted for here... What happens when the trillionaires President Biden wanted to tax heavily, yes he said "trillionaires," and not billionaires like he, I assume he meant, become millionaires? What then defines millionaires? Is it net worth? Then when that old couple across the street who bought a house in San Diego in the '90s for $350k which is worth $7.5m in 2028 and have retired long ago on social security... Are they included too? Lines are easy to move once they're drawn... Is that right? From the side of the aisle that supports "science" but says a man can be a woman and vice versa or a million other things, simply based upon how that person feels? What if I And what you are referring to was blown massively out of proportion by the MSM. Or perhaps I'm a racist too because I don't believe in critical race theory even after having read the garbage put of by DiAngelo, White Fragility. We'll disagree on that, at least the part regarding our allegiances. We've hung ourselves with making what has always been good, now bad and vice versa and probably won't be able to come out of that unless we have a great Presidential prospect come 2024. But I agree, the left has accomplished their mission and has ended American Exceptionalism. Yeah, making everything that has made America great and making it wrong has worked really well - That makes for a brighter future. What 10-20 year plan? That statement sums it up perfectly - Lack of personal accountability. Thank you for that. What you don't seem to understand, or simply don't care about, is that the water in the pot is heating up...

sad thing is the force isn’t really hurt by the Kung flu with a IFR of %0.01 and that assuming you get it…. Assuming 1.3million troops total, your chances of death over the past 18 months from covid are approximately %0.00038. next year: mandatory bubble wrap during PT. Yehaw!

After working the past 40 years on TF-33's or JT3D's anything will be a improvement. I had one stretch in Saudi where I changed 7 TF-33's in two weeks on the same tail number(E-3C). Always a oil pressure related problem. The last 7 years on KC-135's I've changed 4 engines on a fleet about 400 airplanes and some those jets still have the same engines on the wing when they were hung when upgraded from A to R model, that is what they are hoping for.

As someone who was similarly disqualified from an AF FC1 but who has held an FAA Class 1 since 2016, no, nobody in the AF cares. It makes no sense, it is frustrating as hell, but IMO the AF is looking for every reason to tell you no, whereas the FAA seems to only care if you meet the standard or not. My buddy was also permanently DQ’d by Wright Patt for a condition that they contradicted themselves on in the paperwork (no joke, they said it is not a rapid onset condition but we’re worried about sudden loss of eyesight), while a civilian ophthalmologist said he would absolutely not suffer a sudden loss of sight and should be qualified. Welcome to dealing with AF medical… I’m honestly a bit jaded, if that’s not obvious, but it’s the Air Force’s loss. They created this mess and keep turning away otherwise highly qualified people who would gladly give them another decade of service on the cockpit. I’m going to take my talents (and my FAA Class 1) and fly for somebody else. If I were in your shoes, I’d look at doing the same. The regionals are throwing six figure bonuses at people…the regionals! It’s a pilot’s market out there right now. Go find your opportunity!

I just don't get the constant fascination with pinning this on China when in all likelihood our own NIH had a hand in funding the research that caused this too. And then they lied about it.

My point is that it shows why people who have recovered from covid should still get vaccinated. Slightly off-topic: 94% of the Air and Space Force have gotten at least one shot. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/09/29/94-air-force-vaccine-reluctance-falls-away-deadline-approaches.html

If you went to a large public high school you would know the answer to this

I sometimes wonder how many gun toting types have ever been in a situation to realize how little comfort carrying a gun gives you (or at least me)..That's why I have stopped recommending Horse dewormer and suggested using Pig tranquilizer..it works just as well for the bug (not at all) AND cools off any idea of invading the Capitol..or shooting someone..

I hope you're right. Last year we cut almost half the cadets from ROTC because we were up against officer manning numbers. If enough officers don't get the vaccine, maybe we can get back to the 80-90% selection rates of yesteryear.

Except that even having taken the vaccine...I'm still at risk of all the unvaccinated people piled into the hospitals. If I get into a car accident, and there's no available beds...I could easily die in the waiting room. And people want to keep bringing up "obesity" doing the same thing...hospitals were not overrun with obese people in February of 2020. They weren't denying care due to obese people occupying every available ICU bed. They weren't shipping people across state lines because obese people were sucking up all available resources.

It's scaring me to think we have this many officers who think they can willfully disobey lawful orders by calling their superiors authoritarians.