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I'm baffled. How, after 20 years of doing the training, organizing, and equipping for them, did we not know their capabilities? The cynic in me believes we knew their capabilities, and each level of leadership painted an unrealistic picture to show "progress" while they were in charge.

Kinda fun finding out how many people are simply concerned with the authority to control others in a society, isn't it? Compliance is the only discernable goal.

Not at all. The entire point of an airline career is to work little and get paid a lot...it isn't about the passion or enjoyment of flying. An airline career gives you both the time and finances to enjoy life outside of work, rather than simply cramming your families, hobbies, and other passions into the little crevasses around that supermajority chunk of your time and emotional energy that a military career demands. Manage that money correctly, and you'll be able to retire early and *really* do whatever it is you would do if you had financial freedom (like fly cool shit for fun!)

Fair. But there were 80,000 weapons and millions of rounds of ammo sitting in a pile at HKIA that thousands of afghans ran by on their way to jump onto a C17. And the Taliban attack was about 600 on the first day. 10,000+ fighting age men threw down their weapons and ran in terror from 600 Taliban. And asked us to protect them. This is clean cut. This was a cowardly thing and they deserve to lose. And we shouldn’t save them. And US mil who are staying awake at night working ways to save these guys are way off the reservation.

no no no our prestigious generals knew EXACTLY what the ANA was capable of. but instead of "integrity first" they pushed bull shit rosy assessments for decades and touted "breakthrough" progress. the goal was always just over the next hill and almost within reach. No one had the backbone or balls at the flag level to call the spade a spade.

The number of military age males that we evacuated was more than sufficient to defend Kabul, but they never tried. They should have fought, but they ran like cowards. We owe them nothing, and shouldn’t have evacuated anyone. I cannot understand any US military member who thinks we “owe” them safety. They should always have known that fighting for their own country and winning was the only option.

If COVID19 were a grave threat to all and the vaccine worked well, you wouldn’t have to mandate it…

Yep—I understood your original comment. Our culture has become one where the majority of Americans want to not hold people responsible for their bad decisions, their lack of effort and willing to fight for what they believe in, etc. This culture shift has also affected the military, hence why so many members don’t blame Afghans for their country’s failures and likewise believe it’s the job of the USA to make their lives better. Not surprised at all.

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-parent-trying-to-figure-out-how-to-cheer-on-their-son-brandon?fbclid=IwAR1aOzeJArOsw_JoJfgkj9saxF3RqfeUmo5tTYfo8nfHhsXfyDkDVtjQYpU

Next we'll dive into religion, politics, and COVID and it'll be just like the longest 5-day in history!

Right.. because everyone has behaved completely rationally for the last year and a half.

Still a U-2 guy, still the best job in the world. We’re always looking for kickass Bros that want to work hard and do cool things, so give us a call.

Agreed with the first part. I'm vaccinated and against mandates, so obviously I agree that the truth is in the middle. I'm sympathetic to the individuals who fell for the right wing conspiracy theories regarding COVID vaccines for the same reason I was sympathetic to the individuals who fell for the left wing conspiracy theories regarding policing and minorities in the US. A simple reality is most americans, even many highly educated ones, do not have the skills required to sift through data that is intentionally misrepresented to them by seemingly authoritative sources. Well I can understand your position regarding other people being vaccinated, and I certainly agree that the vaccines have some effect on transmission, I believe the threshold for a mandate is very high, and the vaccines do not meet that. Pre-delta you could at least make a solid case, but the rates of transmission amongst the vaccinated in the Delta environment are no longer reduced enough to justify a mandate in my opinion. All it's going to do is slow down the inevitable, and looking at the numbers, not by much. Unfortunately a lot of the studies that show efficacy against Delta transmission are measuring a few months after vaccination, subsequently the efficacy against transmission drops quite dramatically. The vaccines do, however, continue to stave off severe hospitalization or death, but that brings us right back to "if you're worried, get the vaccine." Much like the flu, and unlike measles, there isn't going to be herd immunity granted by widespread vaccination to the Covid-19. It's a bummer, but there are many bummers in life. A small nitpic, but being on a plane for 9 hours is one of the safest places you can be. I don't believe there are many documented cases of spread from air traffic. Bleed air and whatnot. A big nitpic, unless your kid has a very severe underlying condition that you just left out of your post, being worried about him or her getting covid would only make sense if you already kept them in a protective bubble 24/7. It is simply a statistical reality that covid does not represent a threat to children. Is one of the most heavily supported conclusions, bar none. And it is example number one of the fear mongering you reference to the beginning of your post. In fact, it's a fairly easy way to immediately suss out whether someone talking about the virus is intentionally full of shit or not. Anyone advocating for the mandatory vaccination of children, using the safety of children as justification, either has no idea what they are talking about or know exactly what they are lying about. On a more interesting and philosophical level, we now have a great case study in *why* mandates are bad. It kind of goes to the entire argument supporting Liberty in general. Some of us, atheist or otherwise unconcerned with a higher power, support systems of Liberty because at the end of the day they just work better. A bunch of people on the left are going to spend the next few years figuring out what they did wrong and how to craft a better mandate, but instead they should be asking themselves why they thought mandates were the best way to get it done in the first place. Clearly they aren't, but I think to admit that only very specific, and very few policies can be successfully turned into a mandate would undermine their entire long range goal of widespread "social progress," which will most certainly require many, many mandates. Thanks for the honest reply.

The vast majority of those with comorbidities are self-induced. If they don't care enough about themselves to resolve their own situation, why should I be compelled to help them potentially putting myself at risk receiving a "vaccine" that doesn't prevent you from getting the virus, doesn't prevent you from spreading the virus, and has no long term history of known side effects because it still has over a year to complete testing?

This is one of the repercussions when you make a service (education in this case) a “right”, paid for by the theft of taxpayers.

Here is how poorly the mandate is being managed...in the words of the folks I talked to at Robins AFB, it has turned into a witch hunt. They are actively mandating EVERYONE get the vaccine regardless of circumstance including those with established December and January separation dates. Take the shot or be extended, subject to UCMJ and change class of discharge. Numerous other retiring folks at Robins with established terminal dates starting within the next few days have been told, get the jab or retirement is delayed, UCMJ and change class of discharge. I've been vaccinated but don't believe in mandates....this is pure lunacy going after these folks.

Ok. I can understand and appreciate your point about left leaning media pushing the “fear porn”. Sensationalism and outrage sells. That’s the world we live in. I think most who engage here consider themselves thinking human beings & regardless of political tilt, are looking to sift through the chaff & find something a little closer to the truth. Along those lines, there are plenty of right leaning sources and go in the complete opposite direction, discounting any threat at all and insisting society should move on, unencumbered by any need to bend itself to the realities of this virus at all (curiously, while also making the case that this was a brilliant bio-weapon, released by a China on the brink of world domination). I think it’s safe to say that the truth lies somewhere in between those extremes. It’s also a safe bet that CNN and FOX won’t be losing their influence anytime soon, and individuals who value critical thought will have to share their world with those less adept at the process. You indirectly asked the question: why, if I am vaccinated/protected, do I care what others do wrt vaccination/masking/etc? Well, I’ll tell you & I do not intend to be condescending or smug here at all. Despite a metric fuck ton of misinformation to the contrary, vaccines, while not perfect, make you many times less likely to contract COVID. If you DO happen to have a breakthrough case, being vaccinated means you are less likely to spread the virus to others. Here is just one of many studies: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/10/13/do-coronavirus-vaccines-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus You may argue otherwise, but you are highly unlikely to convince me that the vaccines are not efficacious, nor are you likely to convince me that they are unsafe. So why do I care if you’re vaccinated? Because I may have to sit next to you on an airplane for nine hours. I may have to shop in the same supermarket where you fingered the peaches (sts) fifteen minutes earlier. I may have to work in the same office as you. I may have to stand in line at the DMV with you. You get the idea. Now, being a relatively young, fit, healthy person, am I worried about a severe or life threatening case of COVID-19? Not particularly. But I have a non-vaccinated child under 12 at home who I am worried about. I have an immunocompromised parent whom I see often that I am worried about. I have a grandmother about to turn 100 who I am worried about and who’s upcoming party I would dearly like to attend. So, yes I do care if you are vaccinated because your chances of having an infection are less, thereby reducing the chance you will infect me. If you ARE infected and vaccinated, your chances of spreading your infection to me are STILL much lower.