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We have a CSO page...wow who knew...seems like a waste, kind of like an 18X page. 🥃

The mission and personal sacrifices associated with the mission arent what's driving people out of the Air Force en masse. If you ask, 90+ percent of flyers will tell you they love their mission and it's what gets them up in the morning. It's the mountain of queep and endless administrivia hoops we jump through on a daily basis that sours people on the Air Force. Its the daily grinding against the densest bureaucracy imaginable. I worked a civilian engineering job for 5 years prior to Air Force life and it was leaps and bounds more focused on my primary duty than the Air Force is focused on me being a CMR CAF pilot. So we'll play a quick game of civilian world never-have-I-ever. Never have I ever in my civilian job: -had a computer that takes 20 minutes to log onto email -been voluntold to attend and organize social functions in my off time -DRMO literally anything -submit my co-workers for 15 categories of awards every quarter with nazi-regime level strictness of the award submissions -use 1/2 and 1/4 spaces in a document to adhere to writing standards -do HR functions onboarding/off boarding/ discipline/punishment -had scheduled PTO cancelled causing me to eat plane ticket and lodging costs -had my company open a credit card in my name, stipulate what I can use it for, threaten me for not using it, and withhold payment based on an archaic voucher system managed by literal retards. -had basic structural issues with our office building go un-fixed for years -been put in charge of entire programs wildly outside my job description -pulled weeds, mowed grass, and plowed snow around my office building -done 69 annual CBTs to maintain "readiness" to name just a very very few. Most of this stuff just sounds like minor gripes and complaints but the list is endless. If you have significant private sector experience prior to entering or a spouse you can compare stories with its very very easy to see the insanity of all this crap. Most dudes won't get that perspective until getting out.

Someone likes that Walmart strange

Admin note - Filthy_Liar went off the deep end. I was allowing most of his posts until they were all complete crazy-town, "shoot em' up", civil war nonsense. It's a tough line to draw because I'm all about letting folks post whatever they want, but there's definitely a limit, and Filthy_Liar exceeded it. My hope is that it was some kind of drunken keyboard warrior stuff... That said, I've tipped off the appropriate authorities. "Free speech" doesn't apply to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, nor "I'm going to start shooting".

I hear what you are saying but a couple of notes and some logic should apply. 1. Do you trust the DOJ and Comey? It is sad we have to say it out loud but actions over the past 8 years have completely destroyed my faith in the DOJ and much of the FBI. As you noted above they doctored FISA warrants to get to Trump. Additionally, they knew the dossier was fake, the helped suppress the Hunter Laptop story when they knew it was real because they had a copy of it, and as the Durham report identified political interference at multiple levels which the FBI admits saying they have already put fixes in place to remedy. 2. Please tell me you have a basic understanding of how these classified information systems work...I am obviously not going to lay out our nations classified information structure on an unclassified forum, but it should be basic knowledge that the systems that handle TS/SCI SAR/SAP do NOT touch other systems, personal servers in particular. It was a deliberate, purposeful and manual act to take that info and move it to Hillary's private server. I listed the first point above because they very carefully parsed their words (just like Comey did when he made the announcement during the election), and outright lied in a few others, a few examples from your quotes: a. There was no evidence that the senders or former Secretary Clinton intended that classified information be sent to unauthorized recipients, or that they intentionally sought to store classified information on unauthorized systems." Given what you should know about these systems you and I both both know this is untrue. b. "There was no evidence that the senders or former Secretary Clinton believed or were aware at the time that the emails contained classified information. In the absence of clear classification markings, the prosecutors determined that it would be difficult to dispute the sincerity of these witnesses’ stated beliefs that the material was not classified." (p. 255) So again, you know it was purposeful to move that data but because they stripped the marking off in the process (you should be saying HOLY F*CK with your inside voice), that somehow adds to the sincerity of their statements of ignorance? Seriously bro? c. "Although some witnesses expressed concern or surprise when they saw some of the classified content in unclassified emails, the prosecutors concluded that the investigation did not reveal evidence that any U.S. government employees involved in the SAP willfully communicated the information to a person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retained the same." (p. 255) Oh so because they didn't willfully send it to a person without a clearance its all ok...even though the FBI acknowledges the contents of Hillary's serve ended up in the hands of a foreign power. I am a simple dude and the bottomline for me is the deliberate act of taking info off those separate servers. I can certainly see a scenario when Pence and Biden ended up with classified documents without malice and I believe punishment/prosecution should account for that. Were the Pence documents exposed to a foreign power, likely no. Were the Biden documents exposed to a foreign power, given they were in multiple locations including the Chinese funded Penn/Biden Center AND in the garage within reach of his crackhead son...I would raise that risk to medium. Were the Trump documents exposed to a foreign power, prior to the indictment I would have said no since the Secret Service guards his home, but if reports of him showing items like the Iran CONOP to uncleared persons...I would also raise that risk to medium. With Trump it certainly appears to be a willful purposeful act and he should be held accountable and I hold the exact same assessment of Hillary. Again remember in Hillary's case it was a purposeful act to move that material and in the end it likely ended up in the hands of the Russians and Chinese and what was the impact of those actions. Let me remind you, straight from U.S. Code on the State Department: Title 22 - Foreign Relations Volume: 1Date: 2004-04-01Original Date: 2004-04-01Title: Section 9.5 - Classification designations.Context: Title 22 - Foreign Relations. CHAPTER I - DEPARTMENT OF STATE. SUBCHAPTER A - GENERAL. PART 9 - SECURITY INFORMATION REGULATIONS. § 9.5 Classification designations. (a) Only three (3) designations of classification are authorized: “Top Secret,” “Secret,” and “Confidential.” (1) Top Secret. Information may be classified “Top Secret” if its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security. This classification should be used with the utmost restraint. Examples of “exceptionally grave damage” include armed hostilities against the United States or its allies; disruption of foreign relations vitally affecting the national security; the compromise of vital national defense plans or complex cryptologic and communications intelligence systems; the revelation of sensitive intelligence operations; and the disclosure of scientific or technological developments vital to national security.

People complain about the USAF because right now pilots have numerous well paying alternatives. If the economy goes to hell, the airlines furlough, etc, those same sideline sport b-tcher’s happily resubmit and beg for employment from big blue. I’ve seen it multiple times in my 23 years. Right now is unprecedented though. Pilots have a ton of well paying opportunities so it just really comes down to personal priorities (money/family/flying cool jets vs a fat bus etc) and life circumstances. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

That's not from a Reuters news story; that's from an op-ed by a former State Department employee that Reuters syndicated in 2016 shortly after the Comey press conference. The writer seems to have read "From the group of 30,000 emails returned to the State Department, 110 emails in 52 email chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received" and took a big leap on the jump to conclusions mat that 100 emails with classified information meant that classified documents were being verbatim transcribed (retyped) from one system to another. From the DOJ report, the actual number of emails that contained verbatim transcriptions of classified documents was 8, on 3 e-mail chains, all Confidential, all of them sent by Clinton aides who CC'ed her. The report does not say one way or the other whether the paragraphs were copied from classified e-mails or from printed documents they had at their disposal. So again, the actual number of classified documents deliberately moved (whether by re-typing or someone using removable media the wrong way) from classified network to unclassified network that we know about... as far as I've been able to find... is zero. Your op-ed seems to make much of the markings that were on the e-mails when they were sanitized/released to the general public by the State Department FOIA people, which if one were just reading the op-ed and didn't know better would make you think those markings were on a source document that the emails were quoting as opposed to applied retroactively. (Obviously neither a lack of marking nor a classified fact being in one's brain or communicated verbally before being written down--as opposed to copied from another written source--changes the obligation to appropriately protect that data. I'm simply pointing out that without them it's one less data point DOJ has to show willfulness/knowledge/intent.) I agree. Who did that, when, and how do we know it? I'm quoting a report that cites its sources written under the auspices of a bunch of Republican DOJ appointees that hammers the previous FBI director, also a Republican, for his missteps investigating Hillary and leading the Bureau, and was written by the same IG that hammered Bureau leadership for playing dirty going after Trump aides. It has no discernible reason to pull its punches on HRC. You're quoting an op-ed from a guy who was long gone from the USG and had no connection to the investigation or insider knowledge of the details, who doesn't show his receipts, who seems to have done some good work in his career but also left USG service with his own classified disclosure issues. (Not saying he was doing a hatchet job in his op-ed, just that it was a hot take based on the limited information available at the time and he got out over his skis a little bit.) 793(d) and (e), 1924, and 2071(a) require an element of intent. 793(f)(1) and (2) don't explicitly require intent but haven't historically been charged without it: Note that the only charge considered in the Clinton case that overlaps with the MAL docs case is 793(e), and in this instance the SC has Trump dead to rights on knowledge and intent (via audio and video tapes, text messages, and his lawyers records) to willfully retain. I definitely think she *could* have been charged on 793(f), but it would have been in an Alvin Bragg "You could make an argument that the statute works this way... It just hasn't been done before" kind of way... Not IAW DOJ charging guidelines that essentially require a guaranteed win. And I 100% agree with you that all of the staff flunkies should have lost their clearances and (like her) never sniffed the inside of a federal office building again.

It’s hard for conservatives to find common ground with liberals when the latter refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing from a member of their own party. A few acknowledge the wrongdoing but then refuse to admit there is a double standard in the application of the law. The few liberal voices on this board often lament that conservatives keep mentioning civil war, despite the fact that the majority of the media institution in America has continuously demonized the other side of the aisle and cast them as enemies of the people for the last 6-9 years. If you’re a liberal and you don’t think Hilary was let off the hook due to the FBI playing politics then you’re no better than a conservative that argues Trump is without fault. The liberals that refuse to uphold their party to the same standards that they weigh the opposition party against are nothing more than hypocrites, and are just as responsible for the erosion of trust in America as the forever Trumpers.

I'm well aware. I followed politics much more closely at the time than I do now. I ask my question because ClearedHot's statement assumes the truth of something I've occasionally heard people say (bros around the squadron and randos on Twitter), but have never actually seen alleged by any of the investigations into the server (DOJ, State IG, Congress, etc.) E.g. From the DOJ IG's Trump-era review of DOJ's handling of the case (same DOJ IG that uncovered the email doctoring used to justify the Carter Page FISA): One can rightly ask (as the DOJ IG did) whether the investigators used every tool at their disposal to look for evidence of intent or willful cross-pollenation of high side data to the unclass system. One can rightly be PO'ed at Hillary's arrogance. One can rightly think Jake Sullivan (who sent a lot of these emails) shouldn't have gotten to go on to lead the NSC. I still haven't actually seen anyone make a fact claim that, if accepted at face value, shows she intentionally transferred or caused the transfer of classified data to an unclass network. To me the Occam's Razor explanation is she set up a private server to circumvent record-keeping requirements and a bunch of arrogant 20-something political appointees and aides tried more or less hard and more or less successfully to talk around a range of sensitive topics including a bunch of classified, probably a lot of which was already widely known via open source which is something we understand is a thing but retards with Ivy League international studies degrees at their first USG job may not. The private server didn't cause that to happen. They were sending stuff from both their state.gov NIPR emails and in some cases their personal accounts (Sullivan was one), and they would have CC'ed hillary@state.gov instead of hillary@gmail.com had that been the account she used. Or as the IG Report says: None of that is defensible, none of that means I'd want to vote for those people (especially if they sell dumbass hats celebrating how arrogant and unrepentant they are) or invite them my birthday party, but it does mean they're not chargeable under the statutes Trump is charged under. But to my original question, because I'm open to correction, if there's an incident that shows the Witch of Chappaqua intentionally/knowingly committed or directed a CMI, I'd love to know about it.

If you want to know why a whole lot of people are calling out this action as dubious given the political protection granted to Clinton, it’s probably got something to do with this almost forceful way that people dismiss Clinton and her actions from discussion. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/hillary-clinton-email-server-top-secret-217985 Absolutely nobody paying attention at the time could see what Clinton was ignorant of what was found on the 2/3 of her server that were actually investigated (because a lot was destroyed intentionally before it was turned over). But nah… totally on the up and up there. Nothing to see… in fact we can’t even remember it happened…. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/ricwe123/status/1662190322468700170?s=20

Bruh. Those two have made it into every other thread... It's almost like this one was literally made to avoid that shit.

Pooters challenge was to tell the wife we were going to Laughlin. I did that in 2017. No tears, no whining, no drama. …I’m not saying I didn’t like the Del Rio Walmart though.

Here's some proof.

Nothing discussed in this thread is worthing killing another human over. Most of us are just a bunch of washed up military aviators with no more war to fight. Limited Government-Hooray. My political view. Dont harm the kids. Make less laws instead of more.

Yeah and again…. Thats Reuters. But we somehow can’t find “intent.” No reasonable person could understand that pulling classified markings of geospatial intelligence wasn’t an illegal action or whatever reason. We are saying the governmental agencies found a way to protect her and you’re quoting the same government agencies like it’s some sort of proof it was all on the up and up. Also intent was never part of the US Code she violated and could be charged under. And you’ve completely avoided the deliberate destruction of her server entirely. Weird how that’s not just assumed as obstruction. Again, the level of “oh she couldn’t possibly have been charged,” you and others seem to want to find a way to is just astounding. At the very least all of her staff flunkies at the time should have had their clearances pulled, and if you’d gotten on JPAS at the time you’d have seen that didn’t happen. Meanwhile over at USSOAC…. We’re crushing some E 4 for plugging a purple cable into a green printer. They could have thrown some weak toothless attempt at her and lost in court at least making the attempt at appearing to be an application of the justice system, but no, she never even faced indictment much less had to actually defend her actions in court. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Again, you are either willfully or just ignorantly trying to give her a pass. You assumingely (by being on this site) know personally of instances of persons being crucified, livelihoods lost, careers ended, because of stuff far more benign and innocent than anything Hillary did. We threw guys to the wolves in SOCOM for far less. Yet you spent god knows what time on Reddit or wherever digging up a wall of reasons why it’s ok she didn’t face any repercussions for intentionally setting up an illegal server in her house that classified material just happens to make it onto. And then you excuse her actions quoting a guy saying “well if you charged her all these other people would have to be charged.” Yeah bro, a whole lot of people would be fine with Trumps indictment had a whole lot of other people ever been charged. Instead this is absolutely standing as proof that if you are connected and protected or not, your actions carry different consequences. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My personal gripes and those of bros at a UPT base on why these assignments are hated by some: - terrible schools around UPT bases for their kids - little to no jobs available for their spouse in the local area unless they want to use their masters degree to steam milk at Starbucks - DoD level jobs for their spouse…lol - the base itself is shitty - on base housing agency tries to F you at every turn - timeline rules all, to hell with trying to make students better, just push them through. One size fits all cookie cutter approach to students that are struggling. - a syllabus written by absolute retards - management that doesn’t have the balls to do what’s best for the students/IPs because though that may be best for the AF, it’s not best for the timeline and thus not best for their careers - Oh you left the CAF as a 4E/IP, well have fun trying to get back to the TX as a major, unless you want to go to Korea, holoman, eielson, etc. BTW you’re now behind your peers so good luck catching back up as a major and staying in the CAF if that’s what you want. There’s so much more but it’s Friday and not worth it to keep typing.

A lot of 10-12 hour days, last minute weather Evacs, last minute cross country’s to get Stan to graduate on time, and sq leadership that oftentimes caved to OG level pressure to continue to produce more at the expense of IP quality of life.

We're talking different sacrifices here. Not too many of my high school/college friends who went into the civilian professional world have had their company send them away for months on end. Most can't even wrap their minds around leaving their family for two weeks at a time, let alone doing it multiple times a year...not long after being gone for 4-6 months. They rarely (if ever) miss a holiday at home, let alone multiple in a row. I don't know a single one of them that missed their daughters wedding (not me, but a close friend) because their company sent them short notice on a 6 month business trip and wouldn't excuse them or try to find them a replacement. Yes we signed up for this, but they're still sacrifices that most in the civilian world will never understand. That, along with all of what pooter said above, wear on you.

I disagree. I think most of us have had the experience in life that most things we do, good or bad, along with their consequences, are proportional. Maybe you haven’t? Do really bad things, expect really bad consequences. Do less bad things, expect less severe repercussions. Stumble onto an active runway with out clearance? Bad. Expect a long conversation with the FAA and some extra sim time. Willfully disregard ATC, enter an active runway & do donuts while taking selfies, then tell tower to go fuck themselves? That’s willful disregard and will get you arrested and grounded for life. That kind of activity will rightly make people question whether you should be anywhere near an airport or aircraft. So many of Trump’s actions have been absolutely full of willful disregard for the rule of law and are objectively worse than the others’ in this case. No, this does not appear unfair at all to me.

Not defending mishandling classified but in the others’ cases, they at least went through the motions of cooperating with investigators. In Pence and Biden’s cases there is a plausible explanation that the mishandling was accidental; the documents were swept up with unclassified docs when moving out of their respective offices. Again, not saying it’s ok, but there is a significant difference in that Trump was literally waiving classified documents in people’s faces and refusing to cooperate when investigators tell him to return said material. If he had been cooperative and made a statement to the effect of “we made a mistake. We are cooperating with investigators and will return all classified material in a timely manner” I’d agree with you. But he didn’t. When you see police lights in your rear view mirror, if you promptly pull over and speak to the officer politely, you at least have a chance of being let off with a warning. If you floor it, give the cop the bird, and tell him where he can shove it when he finally catches you, guess what? You’re gonna get that ticket & a whole lot more.

No one above the law (definitely applies to you if your last name is Trump)…doesn’t apply if your last name is Clinton or Biden. I seriously can’t fathom how leftists (even those on here) can honestly say they’re ok with this happening to Trump and not Clinton, Pence, Biden, etc. I mean, I get the fact that they hate Trump, but conservatives hated Clinton and never did anything like this when there was plenty of evidence to do so. I can’t stand Trump personally, and though I agreed with many (not all) of his policies, I don’t want to see him be the nominee next year…and truth be told, it would probably just be best for the country if he died peacefully in his sleep tonight. But what’s happening right now can’t be seen as a good thing.

Might want to look into enrolling in some continuing education:

With this latest whistleblower, I estimate that there have been 69 million allegations and speculations from people "in the know" about the existence of aliens and alien craft. Yet not one single, solitary shred of proof in a time where our highest leadership stores top secret documents in closets, garages, and home offices. That's some amazing infosec.

I did a 2 year BAO stint in Sofia and loved it. I also kept flying but had to drop a few quals to maintain currency. Also met my wife there, luckily she’s an American. I always recommend the tour to folks. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Back about 7-8 years ago in my ANG unit we experienced what became known locally as the “Techsodus”…a mass exit of many of our Air Reserve Technician pilots to seemingly greener airline pastures. A growing bias against the full-time techs took shape. “Dude, how can you stay a Tech? Being a Tech SUUUCKS” A lot of young guys got swept up in the wave and followed the older techs out the door and it definitely hurt our ability to do business. One of the DSGs made an observation one day after overhearing these conversations at drill. He said something along the lines of “you guys understand that, in order to exist as a Guard unit, we actually need some people to stay full time right? Like…if EVERYONE goes to the airline then nobody will be left here to build a schedule, create training plans, run a Stan/Eval program…so maybe just consider that as you run down the hallway talking about how much being a fulltimer sucks to all the young guys that look up to you…” I feel like the same thing is happening today. There is so much hate on the mil meme sites and it’s all a one-sided “ F*** Active Duty! The bonus is for chumps! Come to the Guard and get your line number! If you don’t you’re stupid!” But…the less Active Duty we have, the less Big AF is able to man UFT and FTU training, deployment taskings, headquarters manning, etc, etc and that hurts the ARC’s ability to train and equip which in turn makes it harder to be a DSG/airline guy. Bottom line - the airlines are a great deal, but it’s not for everyone and if someone’s beliefs, goals or family situation dictates that it’s better to stay on Active Duty, they shouldn’t automatically be vilified for that decision. Full Disclosure - I was Active Duty for ~8 years, Guard for 20 as an ART and as a DSG on and off orders. *Edited to add my censored F bomb back in for effect Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk on

How many Air Assaults did you fly? I’m just curious if your pax list looked different than mine, because while what you’re describing it as looked accurate early, it damn sure didn’t match what was in my aircraft during the later years of the war. But yeah, you got it all figured out. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Is a 5 liter stein just one drink?..., asking for a friend.

An update: My plan worked to perfection. Separated with 120+ days of leave, took ~90 terminal, paid the rest. Got hired by a legacy airline and started with ~60 days left on terminal. The airline asked zero questions about any Air Force promotion stuff. Got the plane and domicile I wanted straight out of training. I'm already a line holder. Holy crap the airline life quality of life is a million times better than the Air Force. Zero queep. Zero outside work work. Zero mission planning. Zero paperwork. Brief and debrief? Maybe a total of five minutes combined per day of flying. I am so glad I got passed over and wrote a letter for the second board. I was told I am a legend in my old squadron and tales are being told of how I played by their rules and won. Do it. The letter is due in November. It is completely different if you are selected for major and then decline. You must not get selected, and a letter is a good way to do that. Here's something like the memo I wrote: MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD FROM: Capt Cool Dude SUBJECT: Non-Consideration For Promotion to Major 1. I do not wish to be considered for promotion to the rank of Major for board ABCDEFG123. 2. I fully understand the consequences described in AFI36-3207 and AFI36-2501 that will result from not being selected for promotion to Major a second time. 3. For questions regarding this memorandum, please feel free to contact my Executive Officers at DSN 123-4566 or lameGuys@us.af.mil. Signature block Ping me if you have questions. Tell your friends and anyone else that wants out early. I have zero regrets. We could have a recession tomorrow and I could get furloughed. Zero regrets would still exist.

If he wasn’t the politician he is, he’d be in a home, probably nearing hospice. Its insane people have propped that guy up to be the President. Its absolutely humiliating, for him and the country at large.

“Aight… imma head out”

Location isn’t a big deal. Next.