Swanee

And of course 5 years down the road is someone else's problem.

Seriously. There is a squadron that refused an exercise unless they could get any other tanker. They would not come if a -135 was their only option. Not to say that these guys wouldn't take gas from a -135 when it mattered, they would. Do you take gas from the boom or from the drogue? I have yet to meet a Hornet or Harrier guy who says that the iron maiden doesn't completely suck. It has to do with the metal basket and where the probe is on the Harrier. Catch the bow wave wrong and have a not perfect approach and you can put the basket through the canopy on that thing. Whoa, as if they don't have enough problems with the whole V/STOL thing. Plus a missed approach on a Hornet with a soft basket can F up your AoA probe/pitot tubes on the right hand side. Worse case you send them down your right motor. With the iron maiden, it's almost a guarantee if you don't plug really well on the first pass. Combine that with where you have you put the hose so you can get gas and it can be a problem. The drogue at the end of the boom on a -135 is the worst Air to air refueling system out there for the Navy/Marine types. We really don't want to use it.. It happens too often to have messed up AoA probes and pitot tubes, or have a basket not come off of your probe. There is a good reason the AF went away from the probe/drogue method. We just can't do boom ops from the boat. Watch that KC-10 video that was posted and pay attention to the plays for the basket that the Hornets and Prowlers have to do. This isn't a "naval aviators have more skill" argument at all btw. We just don't like the -135. Edited for grammar and syntax- my brain don't work too good on scotch.

Yeah, though not a perfect system. Those baskets aren't very stable- especially if the tanker is in a turn. But I get what you're saying. If we had our way every tanker would be as easy as getting gas from a 5 wet Super Hornet. It just surprises me that the AF would look at getting rid of an asset that is in fairly high demand. There are never enough tankers. I guess the AF really is broke.

So how does an older platform with less capabilities save the AF money in the long run when you're going to need twice the airplanes to provide the same amount of gas? Not to mention that when we Navy/Marine types need a tanker the -135 is either boom or drogue, but can't do both. KC-10? Boom or basket, they both have the gas AND the ability to give to anyone who needs it. We Marines can be pretty stupid WRT some stuff, but holy hell, this is really short sighted. Though what can you expect from the same people who got out of the EA business, and left it to the Navy and Marine Corps (which is ridiculous, why the F do we really need EA squadron in the Marine Corps? I have yet to hear a truly convincing argument) Hornet bros around the world agree - give us a KC-10 over a -135 any day. I know Hornet dudes who would rather take a shitty weather night trap than try to plug the Iron Maiden. I know of a Harrier squadron that will outright refuse a training sortie if they have to have -135 support.

KC-10... More give than the -135 and no Iron Maiden. Why the hell would the AF get rid of them?!

He is a legend in the Corps akin to Chesty, AA Cunningham, Lejeune, Smedley Buttler... He was huge in the Banana Wars, and WWI. Indeed, every Marine learns about him.

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/marines-shoot-down-internet-story-on-obama-s-alleged-push-for-girly-hats-1.248963 Turns out, the whole story wasn't true. Go figure.

I don't see the uniform board approving this.

As did I. We did have a couple of guys get lost. I don't think they made it through the program. When I was in intermediate/advanced we had a few dudes tell us about the stand up EPs they had to do at Vance. Holy hell - another case of infamous hazing coming out of one service.

....Marines aren't shipmates. And SEA doesn't speak for the rest of the Yut Yuts...

Not sure what you mean by Phase 2- that doesn't exist in the Navy world. But yes, Primary studs do get lost from time to time on their first solo flying the course rules back to Whiting. They are notoriously complicated, and can be a bit overwhelming to a new stud especially in low vis. (no joke they include such directions are pick them up at the chicken ranch, turn towards the triangle of trees - which no longer contains trees - then follow the 2nd red dirt road towards the water tower, east at the factory and report the initial.) 99.5% don't have a problem though. But hey, since we're throwing stones I'm sure all of the AF "phase 2" studs fly flawlessly, and don't do anything stupid. I'd like to see them fly the course rules around a triple class C airspace and not ###### it away from time to time.

Easy bro- A- there are plenty of things wrong with the Marine Corps, and B, there are plenty of times Marines do stupid things in airplanes - but this thread isn't about that. Hence the title. Everyone knows there are plenty of stories out there about dumbasses from every service busting the CAS stack, or effing away the tanker join and cutting someone out, flying in the bandit block as a blue air guy or [insert jackassery here].

Exactly. Ijet is where you learn to fly a jet. Strike is where you learn the finer points of manual offset bombing, LAT, and very basic BFM (the T-45 is a really crummy BFM machine). I Guess you guys do what we call strike as winged aviators. The only thing that is a bit different is that the guys who are going to fly the E-2 or C-2 don't do the strike syllabus, they have a few top off hour building flights and then go straight to CQ before going over to the multiengine prop land.

You have to understand how the Navy does scheduling. You class up with some dudes, but you don't finish with them. Everyone is on their own pace for the most part. Some dudes get way ahead and others get behind. It's not similar to how the AF conducts business at all. Also add in that all Marines have 6 months of The Basic School which trains every Marine officer on the finer points of commanding a provisional rifle platoon. It was 3.5 years from the time I commissioned to the time I winged. OCS to The Basic School was about a 1 month wait, then TBS to API was a PCS and a 10 month pool (the T-34 fleet was red striped due to a rudder problem), 2 months between API and Primary, a month and a PCS move before starting Intermediate Jet, then a couple weeks before starting advanced strike, another couple weeks before starting CQ, then a few weeks waiting for enough dudes to finish to have a winging ceremony. Figure that Primary is about 4-6 months, IJet is supposed to take about 6 months but it took me 8 due to weather and crummy jet maintenance, another 6 for strike and 1 more month for CQ. Or a better timeline Commission March 2009, TBS April -Nov 2009 API August 2010 Primary Nov 2010 - Apr 2011 IJet June 2011 - Jan 2012 Strike Jan 2012 - July 2012 CQ August 2012 Wing Sept 2012 I started the RAG (FRS) in January of 2013, should be CQing now but our boat was cancelled so were waiting until Nov. I picked up Capt in May. So I'll be a commissioned officer for about 4.5 years before I get to my fleet squadron.

I concur. WTF mate?

Is it more than Open Water in space with decent actors? I'm on the fence about Gravity...

The Navy won't release you until your commitment is up. Right now that commitment is 8 years from your winging date for fixed wing, 6 for helos.

So uh, no flying a nice tight parade while coming in for the shit hot break?

... Traitor...

People who use this stuff indeed deserve to die. But do we really have to be the ones to kill them?

They are commissioned officers. Treat them with the proper customs and courtesies that they rate as such. Don't be so short sighted and closed minded.

Well played. They'd have to certify it to fly in IMC first.

This is most definitely not what the Marines I know who fly the thing say. Given the choice between a Rhino and an F-35, the F-35 wins hands down.

So what you're saying that is Naval Aviators who fly around the boat are above average? ;) We fly off of a (moving) TACAN while getting to and holding in the Marshal stack every time we come back to trap. There are no GPS approaches at the boat. (Hell, the Hornet doesn't have the capability to shoot a GPS approach, or even a civilian ILS- we are TACAN only)

Is the Air Force really that broke that they have to pimp a bunch of kids whose dreams may have just been smashed for money? I've got a bunch of Marine and Navy buddies who didn't make it to their wings for one reason or another. Each of them, whether it was a DOR (I think you guys call it an SIE?) or an attrite, were offered the opportunity to redesignate into another MOS (Active or Reserve), or to simply get out out of AD Marine Corps and go hang out in the IRR. On the big Navy side of the house they were sending guys home left and right. Most of those guys (Academy and ROTC included) didn't have much chance to redesignate, so they were sent to the civilian life. However the Navy never handed anyone a bill for their college education unless they did something horribly stupid and were being kicked out (look up Adam Ballard).