Smokey

Oh well, 6 out of 33 busted BF/OL test in my flight.......I think my bet is safe for quite some time. SNAPs. Smokey

General Post for all IFS incoming. The publications posted on the USAF IFS link under the UPT link has outdated information. Especially for CSO's and RPA's but also for Pilot candidates. The Boldface and Ops Limits are good. The Academic information is also good. EP Training Guide good as well. After that, syllabus, playbooks, etc., are all way out of date and contain incorrect information. Do not spend much time studying them because you are learning incorrect information. I have asked the site to remove the outdated items (and the information is proprietary so I will not provide current publications) but they have yet to do it. As with any information not received directly from the entity who controls it, use caution for it's accuracy. "Live by the gouge.....Die by the gouge." Smokey

Yes, and yes. Any "corrective lense" requirement on the FAA medical has to be satisfied to the requirements of the FAR. Uniform standards also have to be maintained at the same time for USAF requirements. Correct on all. Smokey

I've been busy and away from the forum. Once again, sorry for the late replies to posts. For those that are on here, do your best to provide some mutual support to you class mates and pass the word. Any 12-09 inbounds on the forum? If so, and you're D flight, we'll have our first meeting on the 28th of Feb. IFS is a "sprint." In that I mean it is full throttle the entire course. Put your game face on and be ready to go. There are few, if any, chances to catch up if you fall behind so come with focus and determination. The syllabus is written the way it is written. It is your "threat" as the AF has limited investment in you at this point and wants to identify those that stumble and show limited potential to succeed down range. Had 3 wash out from 12-07D. All of them applied themselves and gave 110%. As I told them, they have nothing to feel bad about because of the very fact they gave it their all. We had some others struggle but get through in the end. That is all typical at IFS. If you're curious, some of the washouts had flying time. Some of those that struggled but made it through, had zero time prior to entering IFS. This will be the first struggle for most that haven't had trouble succeeding in other endeavors prior to IFS. Come in, give it your all, and you can make it through if you have the right attributes to be a pilot in the AF, pay attention to detail, and apply yourself with true focus. Good luck to all. Smokey

I think someone else answered this as well, but I'll saddle up. Flaps cruise during the abort is meant to help remove lift from the wing. The aircraft is very light, has basically a glider wing, and while the drag of LDG flaps in the air is large, it's counter to your purpose on an abort. Flaps cruise is to kill lift and put more weight/friction coefficient between the tire and the runway. Most will also apply the accepted techniques of introducing aft stick to keep weight on the mains (not an aero brake in this aircraft) to aid in the stopping distance and apply brakes more as the speed slows. As to the engine failure and airspeed, there are two scenarios that dictate 60 KIAS. One is BF (Sufficient Runway Remaining to Land) and one is "memory" (Insufficient Power After T/O). Those both occur in the takeoff (could be a touch and go) phase of flight. The BF is written that way to accomodate the high density altitudes we fly at in hot weather and ensure you have sufficient energy to cover the drag caused by the flaps going from 15 degrees to 45 degrees. The memory item addresses 60 KIAS as it is assumed you are only a few hundred feet on the departure leg still in flaps T/O. At that time you strive to achieve/maintain the forced landing speed since past the departure end of the runway for your current configuration. None of that should be confused with the stated forced landing speeds which assume you entered the forced landing pattern at the high key. Then, when landing is assured, you'll transition to the stated speeds once flaps are introduced. Yes, prior to that point you'd want to ensure you are flaps Cruise and 73 knots. When we practice simulated forced landings, we do fly at 60 as a margin of safety at flaps LDG. Real forced landing, you'd fly 55 after selecting landing flaps.....clear as mud. Regarding your last question, I think I demonstrated I don't mind "why" questions. So long as such questions aren't questioning why something was graded where it was because it didn't follow the procedures. As far as the "why" I expect you to do X, Y, or Z as described, it's because at this stage you want to be able to show I can put my aircraft in parameter/position consistently. This is a relatively controlled training environment. Just like UPT. A few minor issues arise that require a "deviation" but are usually caused by weather (say working below normal area block altitudes for example). With that said, I'll still perform the maneuver the same way while ensuring any minimum altitudes, etc., are satisfied. See the difference? Bottom line, no one is shooting at you in IFS or UPT. You got a way to go before you get there. When that day comes, you'll do what's needed to "deviate" from the ATO/Frag within any limitations specified, and then if you can get back on and achieve your specified weapons delivery parameters using the skills honed by consistently placing your aircraft in position to accomplish the mission objective during your training/practice, you'll employ the weapon. If not, you'll go over dry and come back another day. There will come a day when a little "freestyle" or innovation is required. Flexibility is the key to airpower! However, even when you are operational, that innovation will be a measured decision and not some fly by night approach. It will also be made relative to what the mission objectives are and any specified requirements/limitations. You ever find yourself in a position where you can't make it happen, you'll call a knock-it-off. Bottom line, in a UPT type of environment, shut up (don't take that wrong) and color inside the lines you've been provided. The more you demonstrate that ability, the more I will trust you down range to do the right thing at the right time. Smokey

Well said! Smokey Yes....and no. By that I mean that you'll take BF/OL on both the computer (via GTIMS test module) and hand written. For the hand written BF, you fill in a blank block. When you write, or type, you'll use capital letters. e.g. FUEL SHUTOFF VALVE - OFF, etc. Ops limits are blank for the "red" items. They also must be answered exactly. e.g. Total usable fuel is 24.0 not 24. Although, by checkride, you'll want to know all the ops limits. The red ops limits are those critical phase of flight items that must be known for immediate recall. For the checkride, you'll do a hand written BF....just like UPT. So be ready. Hope that helps, Smokey All true, but the BF is also stated in a specific way. So, for instance, while written AIRSPEED - 60 KIAS, it is spoken as "AIRSPEED - 60 KNOTS." Not meant to be a "haze" in anyway as this is not uncommon across many MWS. Cheers, Smokey

Boldface hasn't changed since inception. The ops limits changed last year with the switch to a different fuel control and the associated numbers with it. Cheers, Smokey The BF is the exact same form with the title in each block that you fill in. All capital block letters, so your example should be.... FUEL SHUTOFF VALVE - OFF CABIN HEAT - OFF Practice typing and writing the BF. Ops limits only have blanks on the "red" lines for fill in by the student. The "red" ops limits are more critical to the phase of flight and must be known for instant recall. Not that the other limits aren't important and you will probably be asked them on your checkride. But the "red" ones are critical at the beginning just as is the boldface. Most flights use two methods to test the BF and OL. A test through the computer via GTIMS, and then the written format that matches the welcome package. You need to be proficient at both as you'll do a handwritten BF as part of your checkride.....just like in UPT. It has to be exact on the ops limits as well. For instance, total usable fuel is 24.0 gallons, not 24, and so on. Smokey Shack! 12-07D is still in blues. They get to re-attack on Thursday. And, I'm sure most feel pretty pissed as the other two flights are in bags. It's a simple enough directive. Do it this way and pay the proper attention to detail. Do it wrong, and you get to change your uniform a few times a day. I hate seeing them in blues but it is their task to conquer. There is no spoon feeding at IFS. Smokey

I'm more than game. Please, prove me wrong on the bet. Let me know what the class is and I'll even have the Chief Pilot validate the success/failure. Good Luck! Smokey

I am not familiar with the specific product so can't say I would endorse it. There are many similar products out there as well. I am sure conceptually the information is sound so long as it isn't taken to the point of "this is how you perform" a specific maneuver. Basic understanding of concepts such as aerodynamics or the principles of flight that such a program could provide would certainly be usefull. However, you can get the same by going through a local FBO and purchasing some basic FAA endorsed publications for much less. Regardless of the source, the basic information that might yield some mental picture of the how and the what will always be beneficial. It will also begin to introduce concepts and terminology into your personal "tactical lexicon" and therefore put you at an advantage on day one. So, I'll take the opportunity to use a specific example, an aircraft stall. If that program provides you with the understanding of why an aircraft stalls (exceeds the critical angle of attack), what happens aerodynamically during the stall, and what a pilot does to recover.....fine. You've gained some valuable information. Then realize, I'll tell you how I want you to set up the stall, what the trigger will be to initiate the recovery, and how you will be expected to recover from the stall to completion. If you can keep that mindset, the information could be of use. General knowledge is power. The pilot or CSO that knows more about what is going on in all aspects has power and is confident. The program you cited is a resource. It would give one source of basic information that if understood would help one put a framework around the IFS procedures. There is no difference in the basics of aviation, aerodynamics, airspace, etc., from military and civilian flying. The real difference comes in the fact the AF doesn't fly for fun (but you should enjoy the flying, hopefully). Rather, the AF fly's to employ the aircraft to meet mission objectives and parameters. That would be basic flying maneuvers in IFS but performed in compliance with the IFS standards. A different mindset than a GA pilot might bring into IFS. Again, I'm sure the program is fine and would provide some good instruction if taken with the right approach. Smokey

If anyone is curious, class 12-07D (Diesel Flight), 7 busts out of 26 on day one. Other flights sucked as well. A challenge to all future IFS students, if a whole class, that means all 3 flights, passes the BF and OPs Limits day one, I'll buy the class a round on First Friday. Safest bet I ever made....... Smokey

I will again say that having a bit of flight experience will always help. Too much can be a problem if their is the wrong attitude to go with it. Regarding zero time, I have washed out as many with experience as without. I have seen zero time guys truly outpace their prior time peers in a class when they have the right attitude, the right atributes, and the desire. There are so many facets to this training that putting too much emphasis on prior flight time is failing to see the whole picture. That becomes apparent to most after about a week here. Having said that, coming in with a concept of basic aircraft control and a few hours of stick time is a positive for a student in the respect that they aren't going to struggle on that topic as much while trying to handle all the other stuff. Averages from the classes I've put through and the one I'm currently starting would indicate about 40 percent have no time, 40 percent have some (say 10 hours) experience, and 20 percent (usually guard/reserve, with some active having a PPL or higher). You're question should be answered with that. Smokey

Regarding the aircraft similarities, there are many. And, yes, having experience in the 40 can help you in the 20. The real question comes down to what you were taught in the 40 and what you were expected to do. If the experience came from Powered Flight at the Academy or anywhere else, realize we are going to ask you to fly the 20 in a specific manner....consistently....rather than some type of program that is more "orientation" in nature. Not a hit on the Powered Flight Program if that applies. Rather, a statement of fact that the two are not equal and have totally different mission objectives. Smokey

Great explanation. A few CFII's have washed out in the past. They certainly had the skill to make it through the course. They just didn't check the attitude at the door and refused to do what they were told. Prior experience is an advantage to a degree. However, all must understand that with regards to flying proficiency, the graduation requirement on maneuvers is at the "3" level or "Fair" which equates to "safe" in the absolute grading scale used by AETC. The issue comes with first not discarding how you did maneuver "x" before. I don't care. The second comes with not listening to the instructor when they tell you that you have to do this maneuver in this manner and continuing to disregard what you're being told to do. The third is not having the SA to realize that failing to ascribe to the procedures in a controlled/vanilla training environment and being unwilling to show me you can do it by the numbers is indicative of problems down range when the mission is far more important and not inclined to allow you to deliver that weapon however you want because you may kill friendles or may have an ineffective weapon. Bottom line, show me that you can put your airplane when-where-and how it is supposed to be consistently in a controlled environment. That demonstrates the ability to be able to handle the operational issues you'll have to deal with in an MWS when things happen and that in the end, you'll place the airplane in the position, time, and parameters to put it on target. There's a larger "method to the madness" that an incoming 2Lt can understand....really. Deviations from the procedure/maneuver description need to be for cause rather than for convenience. In our case, that might only be caused by weather requiring a non-standard altitude on a departure or arrival due to weather. In a broader sense, incoming IFS students need to look at the whole experience as an interview. Now, a smart applicant doesn't ignore or otherwise piss off their new potential employer by disregarding what they are telling them to do. The AF has invested very little in an IFS student and has no problem eliminating them if they demonstrate a lack of adaptability. Attitude check.

Excellent, I remember. Good luck at UPT. Stay frosty and work as a team within the flight. All the work and long days, good and bad, will be well worth it when you look back across the stage after you get your wings. Smokey

This is what it was when I went through......... THROTTLES - IDLE RUDDER AND AILERONS - NEUTRAL STICK - ABRUPTLY FULL AFT AND HOLD RUDDER - ABRUPTLY APPLY FULL RUDDER OPPOSITE SPIN DIRECTION, OPPOSITE TURN NEEDLE, AND HOLD STICK - ABRUPTLY FULL FORWARD ONE TURN AFTER APPLYING RUDDER CONTROLS - NEUTRAL AFTER SPINNING STOPS AND RECOVER FROM DIVE And, you're right....43 words...don't know where 27 came from. And, why do I still remember that? I won't say how many years ago it was! And, to anyone curious, I didn't cheat! Cheers, Smokey

The day a class comes in and passes the BF/OL on day one......I'll fall over from shock. It isn't hard, but some people just don't get it. I remember the day I showed up for UPT so many years ago. I was handed a package which included the BF/OL's for the Tweet and told to have it memorized by tomorrow. I did what I was told. We all did it by the deadline. Jeez, the spin BF alone was 27 words long. Why this generation can't get it surprises me. In our current new class, there's a flight still in polyester (when not going to fly). You want to wear your blues when not flying, it's okay with me. My current class actually did well on their first attempt. Only 3 failures on the BF/OL's. They got their stuff together and passed on the second try. They were in their bags after day two. Of course, they sought me out for a re-attempt and I was available. I'm not always available due to the schedule however. But, they stood out among their peers showing up for academics in bags day 3. It's up to you (future students) on how it plays out. You've been on this forum, you better spread the word to the uninformed. Smokey

Sorry, missed this post as I don't drive by very often. You're sent nothing that I'm aware of. Go to www.dossifs.com and go to the incoming students link. There's a welcome "package" on there from the 1st that has the BF/OL in it. You can print it out. This also might seem stupid to some, but do your BF in pencil, capital block letters, just like the example. Pencil so you can erase your mistakes. Here's the link to the 1st FTS pre-arrival guide. https://dossifs.com/d...rival_Guide.pdf Good luck to all. Smokey I didn't tell anyone about anything. It was an indirect comment from "Smudge" if you know who that is. He commented that he like whoever that Smokey guy is on the baseops forum that dispells rumors or corrects misconceptions about IFS. So I guess mother blue knows we're all here. Cheers, Smokey Did I fly your checkride?? Regarding GK, it's less in-depth at IFS than at UPT for sure. It's required to be at a 3 level (Fair=Safe Level). More or less an inch deep, but a mile wide. Good luck in the next phase of the journey to get your wings. Smokey You sir are going to do well in your quest with that attitude. And, after finishing IFS, I hope nothing was a "surprise" when you began UPT. Our goal is that when you left us, you knew how to handle a stand-up EP, how to "learn" in a manner that allowed you to internalize any given maneuver/procedure, and how to balance all the requirements and stress placed upon you during the UPT training. Best of luck on track select. Smokey

Sage words of wisdom........... Smokey

Shack!!!! Be a team player and not a whiner! Getting your wings is a tough road to travel. It all begins with basic traffic patterns, stalls, etc. It ends with eventually being mission qualified to employ your aircraft to achieve the mission objectives. We do it a certain way at step one of the process, and in the following steps, to produce a pilot or CSO that can achieve that. What some don't understand, especially those with significant prior experience, is that there is a "method to the madness" that goes beyond the horizon they see. All who achieve the goal will then understand the "why we do it that way." Those that don't, won't. On the side....would this be Huggy? Going to Egg's retirement? Smokey

Good on ya for going to the tower and giving them a patch! You speak some good advice on many things. Learning "how to learn" being one of the more important ones. And, the point you made about being a member of your flight, helping others, is also part of the key to what you are learning here. We don't rank the class as in UPT, but you need to know that 20% of your "score" from phase 2 and 3 comes from the Flight Commander in UPT. Things like military bearing, leadership, team building, etc., can play a very large role in your final class ranking come track select and final assignment night. Coming in with some time can help you. Stick to the basics! For those with their PPL, some time flying with a stick (and in your right hand) can help you as well. Smokey Sorry, I can't. Know the Boldface and Ops Limits COLD! The academic material is also a good enough head start. Otherwise, come in with an open mind and focus. Smokey

Personally, I would love to. Having said that, it isn't a necessity and the documents are Doss proprietary information that changes. I cannot provide such information without taking on the liability of ensuring the information is up to date. And, I'm not authorized to do so. The official information for incoming stud's comes from the 1st FTS regarding what is provided to new students. That being basically the BF and Ops Limits. I have never seen a class come in where everyone knew that information and passed the test......so, posting the other information is really a moot point. Regardless of prior experience, the training "playing field" is balanced for all students. A guy or gal with prior flight time might make much more from the information tham zero time students. Unfair advantage in some folk's minds. Come 1 Jan, a whole new Local Flying Procedures will be published. The checklist is going through minor changes as well. The departure and arrival procedures are all changing too. I'd keep your boldface and ops limits, the academic info (although minor revisions are made as well) but ditch the rest of the stuff. The CSO program is under another review for tweeking. But, chapter 6 of the LFP you have is WAY out of date. Your RPA stuff is one revision behind as well. Sorry I can't help on this matter. I try to keep my posts broad and help those coming to IFS with "pearls of wisdom." I am not permitted to do more than that. 19th AF likes me on here though... Smokey

Yes, there are non-AF experience IPs. Some are civilian, some are Navy/Marine, some are Army. They go through a "blueing" process to adapt their experience to meet the needs of being an IFS IP. Including a visit to a UPT base for FAM flight and observation of the UPT environment. And, if you're curious, we have candidates that don't make it through the qualification program. They are experienced pilots and instructors, just not meant for this environment. There are enough of us "gray beard" types that have enough "white jet" time to get them up to speed. Our "PIT" is run by former PIT IPs as well. Regardless of their background, they are well versed in what the program is intended to do and how to instruct to that purpose. Our IP cadre, regardless of their background, is the most experienced in the history of aviation IMO. You won't find the same depth/breadth at any UPT wing. FWIW, Smokey We operate under the guidance and restrictions of the FARs. Let there be no doubt that we do not conduct training in the FAA 141 or FBO type of operation. We meet the FARs to let you solo, but you are trained to an AF standard. Smokey A little bit of experience is good. I made a briefing which will go out to all sources (AFA, ROTC, OTS, etc.) soon. It basically tells you that a PPL rating isn't required. It does tell you exactly what you said. Getting a basic understanding of pitch, power, and trim along with the "landing sight picture" will help you. Everything else is really a bit different. Our training has a method to the madness, so to speak. It prepares you not to be a FAA qualified pilot but rather a student that is ready to go onto the next step with the basics of USAF flying. The only true parallel between USAF and FAA flying is instrument. Those procedures are really not much different. The FAA doesn't really qualify you as a 4 ship flight lead to drop bombs on a target in some other country. Smokey Good on 'ya. Your initial post may have been a little TIC which is always hard to tell in the internet vacuum. My apology. Don't be a GDI. You post some excellent advice. Smokey To anyone that cares, The "gouge" posted on baseops flight training board is already out of date and will be SERIOUSLY out of date come the new year. Sure, boldface and ops limits are up to speed, but the local procedures are being significantly changed to accomodate the operation that grew to 3 syllabi and were modified only to the extent necessary to fit the square peg in the round hole. Now, it is all redesigned. Beware of Primacy. Don't learn the wrong information only to have to re-learn it. Smokey

Must have prior time or be a "natural." Good for you. Let us know where you are at currently in the UFT syllabus. And, let us know where you are come assignment night. Your post intimates a slacker IMO. But, glad you enjoyed your time with the DFAC. I'll let Steve know. Sadly, you missed some of the most important things IFS teaches. Carry on. Tell us about your progress through the UFT process. What is your academic average. How are you doing relative to your peers. Are you a leader/mentorer or a GDI? If you are that good, are you sitting down with your classmates to help them chair fly or with GK? Smokey

Okay, I've answered many posts on this topic. Let there be no doubt that IFS is not a "given." It really is not some "requirement" to get to the real game. It is a step in the process that is meant to eliminate those from the flow that don't have what it takes. I don't care what your prior experience is, if you can't do it our way (which is meant to mirror the UFT environment) then it is the highway. And, it is full throttle throughout the course of your specific syllabus. It is screening in the context that the syllabus is very demanding. IP's provide the training in the time alloted. You have to use that in conjuction with your effort to attain the required proficiency. You get "X" amount of quarters to play the game. You either get it in that alloted time or are eliminated for the same reason since the beginning of the modern era of UFT....which began in the early 60's. As a member of many FAC, TRB, CRP, boards (the acronyms changed, the process is the same) the final determination was, "the student failed to demonstrate the ability to progress within the constraints of the syllabus." Come to IFS with your game face on and ready to apply yourself. You only get one chance. Good luck to all, and if you are briefing a sortie with me, suffice it to say you are getting the instruction that will help you get through the next stage as well as IFS....because I won't let you through the gate without the confidence that you will become a pilot, CSO, or RPA. Nor will any other IP here. You are proving your ability to fill the AF's requirements while at IFS. It is far from a "given" (take note my folks with a civilian rating!). Come in with focus and 100% determination. Weak general knowledge (GK) is a sign of laziness.......you don't want that as a problem. Smokey

You do not want to come to IFS with a Master's on the mind. CSO washout rate is through the roof with the latest syllabus change to meet the requirements of our customer at Pensacola. Your choice, start a process that is designed to place you under a controlled level of high stress while managing a Master's class, or free up your resources to apply your self to focus on your target. I'd recommend the latter. IFS is not a given......as many find out. Good luck, whatever your decision. Smokey