Standby

Cheapen the UPT experience for students.

Quite possible, but not what I was thinking. I won’t start the rumor mill...

About to be more awkward.

To piggyback this thought: professional pilots should be able to ID their weak areas and brush up on them. At some point every UPT student has met MIF on the basics and if they lack, then nobody is to blame but that subpar individual.

You certainly do live up to your name, don’t you?

It hasn’t been dumped into squadrons hands. AETC has allocated funds for technological innovation and senior captains with innovative ideas have taken the reigns and started sprinting. Old hats with a chip on their shoulder regarding the current state of pilot training are shit-talking because it doesn’t smell like the UPT of the early 90s. I honestly don’t get this forum anymore. People frequently talk about not having the clout to change shit until it’s too late and praise former AF rebels yet publicly continue to suck on the moms teet. Don’t take things so literally. If a MAJCOM is willing to carte blanche allocate funds for “innovative” ideas, how can you possibly construe that negatively? Big Wig Boss: “Here is a metric shit ton of money...make things better.” Officer with decent idea: “Thanks sir!” Everybody else: “Millenial SNAPs are fvcking horrible. The Air Force is reluctant to change. VR is hoakey bullshit...you’re not a real pilot unless you flew ELPs. Who cares that the senior captains and mid majors have more operational experience than any other recent batch of aviators — their opinions are worth less than dogshit. When will the AF ever listen to the actual mission hackers AKA the dudes who don’t give two hoots about anything other than airline apps?”

He and Rainman are now in the annals of BaseOps history.

Lots of words to say you are resistant to change. What the fock is an “operational training” squadron by the way? Telling people to put on a VR headset and watch maneuvers/patterns isn’t rocket science...no need to be dramatic.

No, it’s about leveraging tech to train smarter in a digital world. Why would I chairfly in front of a cockpit poster when I could interact with something virtual that provides enhanced learning? You can’t have unlimited flight training available, just not possible...so why not capitalize on better, cheaper alternatives?

Dude you’re smoking crack.

You’re joking, right? You could probably buy 300 fully rigged VR stations for the cost of one of the WST projectors.

This is clearly a polarizing issue, but if we have to pick sides I’m with di every damn day on this. I think you nailed it earlier and did so succinctly...we trained people in the Tweet and T-38 prior to this ELP discussion and somehow still made great pilots. For the people who think touchdown speed is irrelevant, refresh yourself on some basic physics you clowns.

If SFO is taught at the FTU for applicable aircraft, how will that skill ever disappear if it’s a mandatory, graded item?

I never instructed the T-6 so I have no clue what a standard student sortie looks like anymore. What I do know is that 30% of your instruction doesn’t equate to 30% of your flight time. Lack of ELP should not correlate to lack of EP training. If that is what happened, that falls squarely on the individual squadrons and the IP corps. What if...ELPs were such a great return on instructional investment they would have not been cut? You’re clearly the expert in the handling of emergencies, particularly loss of thrust and OBOGS, so I’ll ensure I pay proper respect to your future posts.

Pretty damn embarrassing.

X-Files: the truth (and data on time spent teaching ELPs) is out there. I never said the principles learned and airmanship developed from ELP training were invaluable...just that it is time wasted on a UPT student when leadership has decided that syllabus reductions (read: cuts) were going to occur. Over the past decade, how many dead stick landings have occurred in the military? How many times has en ELP ACTUALLY been executed? Not taking precautionary landings, but no shit engine out landings? Aerobatics teach energy management and visual lookout while under time constraints, so what’s your point? Two minor points: 1) the T-6 isn’t a jet 2) don’t fly into extreme thunderstorms and you won’t have to deadstick your C-17.

Until you’re the SP and you realize you totally fvcked away the ELP and punch below mins and put your jet fuel laden missile into the on base daycare. People shit talk the abilities of student pilots and blast the current quality of UPT products...why all of the sudden are people up in arms about teaching a one-off skill that doesn’t directly apply in follow-on airframes? Energy management in undergrad training can be taught in ways other than ELPs...why dedicate over 30% of your instruction to something that is unlikely to happen? I’m not talking about reduced EP training, just ELPs for the UPT student.

Furthermore, we are comparing a brand new UPT graduate to an MWS aircraft commander. I know we all think we're hot shit, but I would bet a pretty penny that most aircraft commanders from any MWS will have more airmanship than the brand new UPT graduate. It should be the case that the WO is a better aviator than the new 4FLUG just as the seasoned IP is a better AC than the dude who just got his A-code stamp. I think the point stands that a guy with any aircraft commander time should not need a waiver to be an UPT IP when we send fresh off the press Lt's to do the same job.

I think you are spot on. Nobody is arguing the merits of energy management or properly handling an EP but the amount of effort dedicated to teaching students the ELP is likely wasted.

I’d imagine similar to the Viper for IPs and zero SP training on it.

The single seat mentality coupled with tactical formation experience gives them a leg up on people who have lived in the crew world. We all know the gunship is fvcking beast and does great work, but the employment dynamic is polar opposite from the one or two person interaction in a small aircraft. Nothing will ever replace experience and the AFSOC flyers with CAS stink have an infinite advantage but there is also something to be said for young, moldable minds with a whole lot of commitment ahead as well. I think the best of both worlds would be a mid-level AFSOC AC/IP who knows CAS and has a T-38 background. All of the 11Fs I know in AFSOC have either separated completely or gone to reserve units in extremely small numbers. I’m not sure what it is like at other UPT bases, but the FAIPs here don’t seem jazzed about anything unless it has afterburners or a 30mm poking out the front. I am being selfish, but I would prefer the SOF LA program to be in a shitty geographic location. I think it would separate the people who think it’s a fun gig with a great NW FL view from those who love the CAS mission and are willing to homebase anywhere for it. I know the turboprop track is going to be a thing in the future, but I think you need a few of the LA planes or high-fidelity sims at the UPT base for screening and selection. I don’t believe a year in the T-6 will be sufficient to ID appropriate traits.

UPT builds the foundation for all military flying...so I’m going to say all of them except sim single engine work.

How many 11Fs are still in AFSOC?

The “Afghanistan Security Forces Funds” is really just our taxpayer dollars which means it is a DoD acquisition program...so probably like 20 airplanes.

It’s SOF airlift...not much of a secret. If you’re wanting to know more, find someone in the squadron and talk offline.