slackline

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/27/biden-becoming-president-not-make-everything-suddenly-normal-column/6042756002/ Screw both Trump and Biden. It’s up to us as individuals to stop treating the other side as if they were some kind of fully-functioning mentally challenged person simply because we disagree with their ideologies... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would agree with that assessment, but here’s the better question: do you honestly think those that are still undecided will be swayed by what looks like a blatant attempt to sling mud and is seen as being questionable? I say it looks like an attempt to sling mud because with all of this “rock solid evidence” there sure is a whole lot of nothing being said by the people that matter. As of yesterday, even Trump is being quiet about it. I think they know it won’t sway anyone. Covid is what Trump and Biden are discussing... Oddly enough, Trump says his plan (anyone seen it?) will create a booming economy, and Covid is basically beat. If that’s not strictly talking to your base, I don’t know what is... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So I'm just curious, what happens when the election comes and goes and no one ever substantiates any of this stuff? Not saying that will happen, but I think we can all agree this, or any administration in recent history isn't necessarily trustworthy. We're a week out, and everyone with all this proof, except for the super reputable sources quoted by torqued, are mum. And who knows, maybe they're going to drop all these bombshells. At this point, nothing is surprising... What are all of you die-hard Trumpeters going to say? Wait, I know, you'll say #fakenews... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you should make your point pretty quick here... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Totally agree. They deserve equal rights 100%, but the second they go after religious institutions to force/bend them to their will that doesn't have anything to do with individual rights, especially with religious institutions that aren't trying to shove their beliefs down their throats, I'll help hold the line there. Do me the favor of not reading into other things here. I'm specifically talking about equal rights. After that, we're not on the same page. I have friends in that community, and I don't judge them even if I don't agree with them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great, succint wrap-up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or not based on this scenario. Sorry. I'm advocating that we should treat them in the same way as straight couples. Maybe that wasn't clear before... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please, show me how I’m misinterpreting what you said, and therefore “educating” you... You seemed to take offense to something that wasn’t said, so I clarified because you and Guardian are definitely alike in your seeming love to “educate” people from some position of perceived superiority. Honestly, it was a compliment. I should have been more generous with the praise first. Often, guys like you and Guardian do a great job holding people to high standards. Occasionally, you seem to come from some invisible high horse and ignore what people have actually said in some perceived attempt at showing everyone just how brilliant you are. You’re doing it right now... Your passive aggressive comments like, “I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse...” are perfect examples. Please, highlight my logical fallacies and unsupported hyperbole in the (acknowledged in my post) opinion above... To answer one of your criticisms: I liken it to hate (I think hate is fairly strong, and most people don’t truly hate[emoji2373] IMHO), never called it hate. My apologies for using the term “hate on” in this case. I think hating on something is different than hating something, but I don’t know a similar term thatto use that, as easily, gets the same idea across. I made my point about Christ because he never specifically tried to limit people’s actions. He educated, counseled, encouraged, but never forced anyone to obey him. I fail to see how laws limiting who someone is allowed to marry isn’t oppression. I also, from a religious perspective, don’t agree with the LGBTQ community, but until they try to come around and start hurting other people’s lives, I don’t think the government has any place imposing its will on them. Pence disagrees on the semantics of the word marriage? Fine, allow civil unions that hold equal rights as a religious marriage... Easy, peasy. Gay marriage is very different than second amendment or illegal immigration issues, so this is 100% an instance of you falsely correlating these things to try and slip your point across. Explain to me, outside of religious terms, how gay marriage infringes on the safety, or rights of others, or unfairly taxes straight people. I can show you how a stance against immigration or guns points to people’s safety and/or rights. I happen to be in favor of gun rights, but think the conversation needs to be had on how to stop mentally ill people from accessing them. I happen to be in favor of ending illegal immigration, but don’t agree that it should be as difficult or as expensive for people to naturalize. Pence could be an amazing member of whatever congregation he belongs to. I don’t think Pence is a bad person at all. I know lots of great members of my church. That doesn’t mean I want their rigidly unbending ideas on the world governing how I live my life... If you think liberals are the ones that hate Romney now, I suggest you drive up and down I-15 in UT where there are billboards wishing him to go away. Paid for by conservatives because he’s openly opposed Trump... Once again, I’m not trying to convince you to change your mind. Just showing where I perceive you’re being disingenuous. Notice the word perceive and perception. I use it a lot because I can never be sure I am fully understanding what people are saying on the WWW. Maybe I’m the one with reading comprehension issues, but that’s how your posts come across to me. The fact that baseops.net is an echo chamber for people who think similarly to you emboldens you to continue “educating” people. Keep calling me, or inferring that I’m a liberal. Doesn’t hurt my feelings. I feel like I’m in a tiny group of conservatives who sees this Admin for what it really is, a danger not only to our country, but the world. That’s two people (you and me) who think they’re each on the right side of an opinion. That’s all most of this is, an opinion... I wholeheartedly agree with you that all of this is incredibly beneficial dialogue, and it needs to continue. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Show me where Pence has done anything to change his opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let me also say, I think Harris is lousy and I would never vote for her. This is truly the most difficult vote I've ever participated in... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reading comprehension guys. It's important. I cited you because you wouldn't put up with the ridiculously poor and bogus arguments Trump makes. Not because you defended him ever. It was a hypothetical, fake scenario. Agree to disagree. Opinion warning and it probably is controversial in an environment where everyone seems to think this admin is infallible: Pence strikes me as incredibly self-righteous. I don't understand Christians that hate on LGBTQ, or aren't compassionate towards people that suffer oppression at the hands of others. Christ never "hated" on anyone for being different or even doing stuff he said they shouldn't (except the money changers in the temple), but evangelicals can be some pretty hateful people "in the name of Christ" at times. Don't get it. Not trying to convince anyone or change their minds. The above was my opinion only, and what better place to share it than the internet... I'd love for people to change their minds or even just be open to it, but I'm a realist... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I listened to about 30 minutes before falling asleep (it was riveting...) and they both suck. Joe wasn’t incredibly articulate, but I didn’t think it was from being lost or confused. I’m no Dr though. It seemed like frustration. Trump would get eaten alive on this forum as he makes all sorts of outrageous, unproven claims without citing jack all... Guardian and Lord Ratner would be constantly saying “disingenuous!” or “straw man” to him because that’s what he does... No needle movement whatsoever. Two politicians (as much as Trump claims he’s not, it took him about 4 years to turn into what he rails against) doing what they do. Claiming what they are going to do, or what they have done. For whoever said vote for VP, that’s a clear cut choice, I wholeheartedly disagree. Pence seems like a hollow shell of a man. No character, and for someone as religious as he claims to be, I see it as a problem to just sit there, quiet, while one of the most seemingly immoral men we’ve ever had as sitting POTUS does what he does and says what he says. Both VPs are horrendous as well. Maybe I’ll give Kanye the nod...[emoji23] Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

One of THE only things I like about Trump is the fact that he calls out European countries in their weakness, and other countries doing crappy things. I wish he were more "presidential" about it, but it's a good thing, long overdue. Outside of that, he's an absolute disaster. Not trying to convince you, not asking you to convince me. For the record, I hold Biden barely, barely above Trump. I've been staring at my ballot for almost a week. Not voting Trump for sure, but I can't quite make myself vote for Biden either... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, typos from time to time are totally understandable on these dumb phones with autocorrect, but your grammar is consistently off just enough to be a troll or a bot. I speak 4 languages fluently. You have enough mistakes made by non-native speakers that it's questionable. Maybe you grew up in a non-english speaking house, if so, that's cool. I got no problem with it, just saying, you sound shady... Who's our smart people with sniffing these trolls out? He literally only posts propaganda. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dude, Flea, KA, Guardian and many others have about a thousand times more credibility than you. Maybe you're legit, my apologies if you are, but you scream "troll" from the rooftop... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't have tons of time, but your idea of a personal attack is seemingly very broad... I say they're old because I know they're already retired. I'm almost there, but they went years ago, so at least older than me, and I'm older than a lot. I stand by my statement. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"how much fake they are". Seriously, I hope that was a typo, or you're going to have trouble with your GRU supervisor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I said do better, I was referring to a perceived tendency of yours to infer things from what people say, not just me. Then you proceed to “educate” people on what you erroneously attributed to them. What questions am I not answering? When I make a point to highlight yet again that I am not advocating for universal healthcare, and I also agreed with a lot of your points on why it wouldn’t work in our country, there is no longer really any valid questions coming from you that merit an answer. I don’t care what countries are socialist and what aren’t. Had nothing to do with the point I made. Go back and reread what I said (that’s also part of the “do better”. Read the words people say, not what you want it to say so you can then “educate” them again) because it’s pretty clear what I was saying. So, once again, my bad if I’ve skipped any questions. Hit me again, Ike, and this time put some stank on it. I’ll answer your questions. I brought those countries up because they have literally been mentioned in here a few times the last few days as examples of countries that do have systems closer to socialist programs with higher taxes and universal healthcare. The people living in said countries seem to be pretty dang happy with it, so I asked why there was a need to constantly belittle what is clearly working for, and making those people happy. It doesn’t mean that’s what I think we should be doing here. Let me make it painfully clear one more time: my bottom line is that our current system sucks. We can do better. I encourage the discussion in here because there are smart people on this subject that have brought up smart points. There’s a couple of old cranks in here that just refuse change because that’s in their nature. I’m not engaging with those people. I’m engaging with the people that bring something to the table even if we’re “just tilting at windmills...” Who knows, maybe someone in this forum will one day be instrumental in the future policy making of this awesome country. This “tilting” might just make a difference. I know I’ve learned from both sides of the conversation. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The one above, where I said Wow!? I have no clue how that man could possibly be China's richest man. He seems like an absolute tool. I'm a massive Musk fan though. My son shared it with me, am I not aware of some context I should be? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You seriously can’t see how making the comment you made can come off as superior? Can’t help you then. Those are not socialist countries, but they have socialist tendencies that you guys keep pointing out for goodness sake. Come on man, do better. As I have said many, many, many times, I’m not advocating for universal healthcare. How are you still saying things like, “why wouldn’t you go there if you think it’s better?” Quite honestly, you’re not putting your best foot forward here man. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don’t understand our need to act so superior to this. I’m not saying you specifically here, but comments like this pop up so much. Clearly, that style government doesn’t work for us, and wouldn’t be well received. I’m on the same page as you for that. My issue with this is, those people living in Germany, Scandinavian countries, etc. are extremely happy. If it works for them, who are we to hate on it. We have problems they don’t, they have problems we don’t. Paying those taxes doesn’t seem to really hurt them a whole bunch, and they seem to have just as many toys as us from expendable income. I just don’t get it. For most of Europe, I’ll grant you 1000% the fact that they are able to save a significant chunk of change on defense because of Uncle Sam... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I get it, you don’t want to subsidize the healthcare of fat people. It pisses me off as well. The military has destroyed my body, back and neck are 10 kinds of jacked, but I take care of myself. I believe a lot more people should and could do a lot of the same thing. I eat right, and I exercise a ton. That takes care of a lot of my issues and keeps my QoL higher than it would be. If I can do that, they can do that... to an extent. Food that is healthy is waaay harder to get for low income families. Not just the prices (healthy food is more expensive than garbage food) are messed up, but there’s the time aspect. People working multiple min wage jobs often times have very little free time, so popping in the microwave dinner is faster than preparing healthy food. That doesn’t excuse a gross neglect of your own health on the part of many fat people. I’m simply making the point that it isn’t as simple as “fat people should all die of diabetes because they’re lazy” which seems like what you’re advocating (heavy on the sarcasm there in case you were unsure). Oh, and guess what, there’s tons of fat people in the military driving up our healthcare costs. Fix that problem for us while you’re on your high horse (again, sarcasm meter should be in the ON position). BL: we can do better, and if fat people get to go along for the ride, so be it... Again, people other than fat people need healthcare. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I’d never heard that before. I really dig that idea! Absolutely true as well. They’ll claim that for coordinating purposes it makes more sense to be together. I’d put money on the fact that they almost never talk to each other anyway... They can never talk to each other virtually! Some things have to be co-located, but I’d bet a lot less than people think. Thanks! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You’ve explained aspects that are better than other countries. You’ve not provided data that quantifiably demonstrates that our system is the best. In some aspects, you’re absolutely correct, it is the best. But as a whole? How on earth is that not a subjective decision? What have I taken out of context? I am no expert, so I’ll readily concede if that’s the case. What have I made a half-truth? You claim things as irrefutable facts, like saying our nation’s healthcare system is the “best,” but cannot point to any set of data that clearly determines what is the best. When push comes to shove, in drastic measures, wealthy people come to the US to avoid lines. Great for the wealthy... The provided links are anecdotal at best, but they lend credence to the fact that “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.” https://www.cbsnews.com/news/reverse-medical-tourism-points-up-pluses-and-minuses-of-us-healthcare/ Brief summary: rich people come here because US hospitals recruit them because they pay full price, and wealthy foreigners don’t want to wait in line. Middle-class US citizens go abroad because they can’t afford to pay for procedures here. That doesn’t sound like “best.” https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp We’re the bottom of the barrel of “good” healthcare systems. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbeo) You continue to make the point that if someone doesn’t agree with you, they’re wrong, and you’re “facts” are the only valid ones. You immediately dismiss almost everything when it doesn’t line up with your line of thinking. I know for a fact, I don’t have all the answers, and healthcare isn’t my strong suit. Some of your stuff doesn’t require you to be an expert to recognize that it is right along party lines. I’m all for individuals paying for their own healthcare, not having “wealth” taken from one to pay for another’s mistakes. I simply argue that, as has been pointed out on here by people smarter than me, there are ways to make the system cheaper and more accessible for those who aren’t as fortunate as I am. I don’t want to pay for their crap, but I do agree they shouldn’t have to go into massive debt to pay for it themselves. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk