slackline

Holy crap! That's a woman with some serious problems...

Don't skip over the part where we say you need to be aware of the consequences. This is a potential consequence, but since senior leadership appears unwilling to do anything substantial to change the way things currently are working, it's on us middle of the road bubbas, and the young cats to do it. I hope Liquid is as sincere with his words as he seems, but so far the rest of the guys up there with him refuse to care, or so it appears. Heck, even Liquid is having trouble grasping the fact that the way it stands now, AADs have simply become an additional duty that adds virtually nothing to an AF officer (exceptions already listed ad nauseam), and takes away tons of tactical expertise. Sometimes reading the back and forth between he and Rusty becomes painful because they, for the most part, simply keep repeating the same things over and over again, worded slightly different. Gotta read it anyway because a few golden nuggets are hidden in there. Edit: ad nauseam, not nausea Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I had to do this in CA for an Army base. Army guys were the ones forcing it. In six months I went on base with my car maybe 5 times. Next time, I'll park outside and walk...

Yeah, we're on the same page. I'll never tell guys what to do one way or the other, but I will make sure they understand the potential consequences of whatever path they choose. I just wish there were a way to organize them all into a way to just ignore the AAD. The penthouse offices would have to take notice if nobody does it anymore. They can't NOT promote everyone. Anyone willing to take it to the CGOC...? Sorry, I forgot, anyone who's a member probably loves the AAD requirement anyway. ETA: While my above suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, the leadership would definitely notice if they all of a sudden had a more professional, tactical expert force.

Now I just feel like you're screwing with everyone. Maybe my sarcasm detector is inop, but are you really saying, "eh, just do it anyway. Why bother fighting it?" I agree that there's a chance you're screwing yourself over if you don't do it, and you can say all you want that the only reason I'm saying, "roll the dice," is because it worked out for me, but I didn't know it would at the time. I just always accepted the fact that it might not work out for promotion, but I wasn't wasting time on other crap that would make me less of a tactical expert than I should be. Your post is an example of why it will never change. Ugh...

I don't think you've ever done it at 50-100'... Different story unless you're just full of it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Tactical low level, at night, or BFM is just a bit different than the airlines. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I agree that flying forever isn't realistic or safe. I'm not just talking about that. The CC's I've had don't work easy hours. I don't believe anyone in a staff job should be focusing on a bogus or otherwise degree. My point was that AAD's take everyone's focus off their real mission, whatever that is at that time. I'm 100% willing to work late nights for the mission be it flying or staff or whatever, take crap TDY's, deployments if it's necessary etc., but once you say "do all that plus get a degree" is when I say, "no thanks." If the AF decides it no longer requires my services because I wasn't willing to do that, so be it. That's not the AF I signed up for, and there will be plenty of boot licks willing to take my place. I'm nothing special, but the AF will lose a hard worker, and someone who cared. I'll find a job doing something, and my family will be happy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Don't have experience with that program, but it seems like that one should be one of the only ones with any real weight. Outside of a brick and mortar university that is, but who can be good at their real job, do a real degree, deploy, go TDY, and keep a family healthy at the same time? Maybe I'm way off base here, but it's just not realistic unless you sacrifice your family or sanity (for single types). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

IMHO, until someone can show some concrete proof that the AAD's people are getting actually do the Air Force any good, it shouldn't be a requirement at anytime. At best, you're getting someone who is only slightly wasting his time. At worst, you're taking someone's attention and focus (at every level O-3, O-4, or O-5) away from their primary job to force them to prove they "care about being promoted" and nothing else. Then add in the stress that the lost time contributes to family life, and you get disgruntled individuals. I have zero AAD. I started 3 times and each time I couldn't stomach the garbage, so I stopped and put my focus where it belonged. The mission. Somehow I got picked up for school, and I even got an incredible push from my SR. When my current boss told me I needed to get my AAD now to be competitive I politely told him that I wouldn't be doing it. I even asked him if he thought it was legit, or just for box-checking to be promotable. You wouldn't like his answer. Nice guy, but drunk on kool aid. If I still am able to continue pushing up the line without my AAD (I firmly believe in PME, even if correspondence is stupid just to do in residence), I will continue to fight against AAD's until I get fired for it. When will senior leadership realize that AAD's are ZERO ADDED VALUE? Caveat: you send someone to a real school somewhere for a real degree, but then we're talking IDE aren't we? Good points. I was typing when you did that up. Again though, we're talking apples and oranges AADs. Real and applicable to careerfield vs. diploma mill in order to promote. Thanks for the insight.

I love how they're even entertaining the idea of converting it to Afghan standards if they give it back. If we waste any more money on this we're less intelligent than we already think. Just walk away. Don't even waste the money to demolish it. Some might say it gives potential insurgents an operating base, but just point a couple of 105mm's at it without hiding that fact. We need to get out of there already...

I have a sincere question. What happens when you're just a run of the mill, average pilot? From reading these posts it would seem to be inferred that you're all a bunch of golden hands! I am an average pilot. I can do everything in my mission set safely. Are there people that do it worse? Yep. Are there people that do it better? You bet. I know my mission, and I'm very good in the 3-1 dept because that's something in my control, but is the fact that I'm not Chuck Yeager a disqualifying factor in me being a good leader? I'm honestly curious because a young pup reading these posts might just think, "well, that's it, I'll never do anything important because I'm not the best out there." I fly a crew aircraft. I fly in some pretty gnarly situations, and I'll be the first to admit that I was just not as blessed as some in the "hands" department. I'm a great instructor, and I'm always safe. I've been lucky enough to get lucky in some of the worst situations. I have always busted my arse working hard, and been trusted by my crews and leadership. AAD's are something I've always avoided like the plague, I had to do SOS on a waiver because of deployments, TDY's etc not permitting me to go before, and I've done ACSC in correspondence because I was basically told "or else". Rescue continues, in my very biased opinion, to be one area where we've had excellent leadership the majority of the time. My current assignment has pulled me away from USAF Rescue for the last three years, so maybe that's changed, but I doubt it. Long winded way to say that IMO, being the best pilot isn't the only important thing. I acknowledge that most of you aren't saying it is, but I just want to clear that up for young guys. You should never stop trying to be better, but realize that, like I always tell my 10 yr old son, there's always someone better. Being a great "real" officer is more important than being a great pilot. I think a lot of you are saying it, but I'll just spell it out. Being a great officer in the Air Force doesn't always mean you'll be the best pilot, but it does mean you'll never stop trying. And, just to be clear, in today's climate being a great officer doesn't mean you'll get promoted. I think it'll be rare that the truly great ones get passed over, but it happens, and that's what you have to be prepared for. Sometimes being a great officer means pissing off your boss, and that has ramifications. I hope that made sense. Long day, it's hot, and I actually got to fly. Time for bed. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Say what you want about his posts, but this paragraph, to me, is golden. A little bit of the high horse in there, but it's a very solid point. I did start out simply for the service, and flying, and somewhere along the way I got bitter. The Air Force, on its own fixed it for me without too much finagling on my part. I've been upfront with every boss I've ever had on my attitude towards AADs. I wasn't an idiot, and I didn't burn bridges, but I always told them I'd never do it. Mission and family (self, if not married) always came first. Bros are included in those two options. I am not so naive as to think it will work out for most, but I was willing to accept the results I basically earned by not doing the garbage degree, at all. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of crap wrong with Big Blue, but I'm, at this point, willing to stick it out to see what else I can do. Hopefully, that's effect change for the positive.

Curious if you think that the same training and money that got sunk in a 6 year commitment is equivalent to the training sunk into an 8 or 10 year commitment? Even with inflation taken into account, UPT costs come at an enormous bargain for a 10 year commitment. Not saying we aren't accountable for what we sign, but if you're going to use a cost argument to disallow Palace Chase, you're off base. The Air Force is coming out on top of that contract. Guys nowadays are doing the same training that guys did 15 years ago, but getting stuck with a much longer commitment, and a much rougher work environment. It feels as if upper level leadership is forgetting where it came from. My $.02.

Relax there, Turbo. No one is trying to hurt feelings. If you don't think that people are learning from the back and forth between GC and Rusty et al, then you're sorely mistaken. It's good information that they're both putting out there. At times each of them crosses some imaginary line in an attempt to squash the other one, and all I'm saying is keep it on the level. It's good he sticks to his guns, but when people go full retard and attack the person that they've created in their minds it gets silly. Nobody is defending GC. In fact if you go back and reference most of the posts people calling for civility are saying that there is actually some pretty good info he's putting out there in between the garbage he can't seem to refrain from saying. I'll never understand internet posturing... Nobody thinks anyones any tougher for having done it, so why bother. Okay, I'm done trying to be a voice of reason. Let heated rhetoric ruin the valid points that each side is making. Who cares? It's like those far right wing conservatives. Nobody can hear the valid arguments they're making sometimes because they lace everything with venom. Zero credibility instantly. EDIT for grammar

I totally agree that he's saying some stuff that just doesn't add up. I'm just saying don't engage him on that level. Is he demonstrating horrible leadership? Yep, but this is the Internet, take that with a grain of salt. A lot is left open to interpretation here, and people don't always come across they mean to. I'm not defending him, just saying don't engage on the personal crap. You have to admit that even with some of the garbage he's throwing up, he's also giving a couple nuggets of solid info even if it's hard to hear. Take it for what it's worth.

Guys, attack the arguments he makes, not this person everyone is inventing. He makes some very good points, but then fails to back up some other hard to believe points. You don't impress anyone by picking some Internet fight. Just saying... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

2!

Tenant unit, but yes. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Don't get me wrong, but that was the kind of comment that virtually everyone on here would have cheered until a senior leader showed up. I pretty much agree that that attitude is bad overall, but I find it funny that a bunch of people who three days ago were super cynical are now jumping all over themselves to appear in agreement with a guy who claims to be in a high level position. I also believe in allowing people to change their minds when presented with a logical "other side" of the coin. I'm not saying Chang and Liquid aren't the real deal, and I find the info they're putting out there very, to be redundant, informative. I do remember though, that this is an Internet forum. I'll take the nuggets they're giving us, apply some common sense, pass it through my AF propaganda filter, and try to then make educated decisions based on what passes those litmus tests. Some things they're saying pass muster, some seem like leadership that still just doesn't want to admit just how bad their predecessors let the situation get. I hope everything their saying is on target. I don't believe they'd lie to us. Not intentionally anyway.

I'm glad somebody else posted this. I am curious if our communities are just too small to be noticed or what. I mean, I know there will never be an 11H running the show or making it very far up the chain, but our guys have been taking it on the chin for about 10 years straight. Really, I'm just looking for insight into what is seen out there for 11H/S because we get lost behind the massive 11F/M communities. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You sound like someone failing at trying to be funny by saying something that doesn't apply. Who was whining about facts? It's not a big deal, it's just life. Don't worry though, you sounded much tougher though. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Just asking, were you around when we were AFSOC? If you think we are inadequately supported under ACC, it was worse with AFSOC. This is just one reason why this is yet another stupid decision. Helicopters will never be truly supported as other airframes are in a fixed-wing Air Force. That's just my opinion. The Army hates that we have any Helos at all, and I would say that the AF is not far behind. We're a far cry better than 10 years ago, but there are still people in the AF that don't even know of the existence. I'd say that's not representative anymore, but it exists. As far of everything else you say, meh. You're very optimistic of the Osprey's caps. IMHO too much so, but that's your right, and I won't disrespect that. I'll stick with my pros and cons statement, and that the 60 has more pros than does an Osprey in a CSAR environment. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This! We've been down this road before. AFSOC couldn't care less about CSAR or saving money, and that's why this experiment failed the first time. They're shooting for a way to gain the iron and money. We may be a red headed stepchild in ACC's fighter world, but at least they respect the capability and mission we bring to the fight. We're a necessary evil if you will... Let's not even start down the road of a CV-22 being capable of the rescue mission. I was there when they got their first "rescue" in the Osprey. They were in a neat orbit overhead while an HH-60G landed at 11,000'. Hilarious the next day as the Air Force propaganda machine went nuts touting the CV-22 in the papers, and barely mentioned the fact that due to service ceiling limitations (worse than a Pavehawk, and that's bad!) prevented from actually doing anything... Yeah, let's take that machine. It will get to the zone ASAP, then do a cool orbit overhead. It has its pros and cons like every machine, but too many cons for the mission the Air Force wants to force it into. Square peg, round hole. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yeah, I apologize. My intent was not to sing my own praises. I was simply trying to point out that occasionally you do find good leaders that do look out for you, or your bros that put you in for awards when deployed. I am incredibly grateful for the leaders that have given me the chances I've been given, and fully recognize that I'm no better than anyone else. Promise won't bring it up again. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Okay, this time with less venom. I have been extremely lucky, as I've stated before, and I had good bros and bosses looking out for me in terms of ranking, awards, opr's, etc. I do not have an AAD or even Bac+. Still somehow got picked up for school. I stayed late when staying late was required, I took my share of bad deal tdy's, last second deployments, etc. When that crap wasn't required, I was out of there the earliest possible opportunity I could be. In fact, in my previous assignment, my boss was a real good dude. He always told us that if the work was done, and we could manage to stay ahead of things, we could clear our shops out as long as it was never abused. I, to the dismay of some one here, was running the biggest shop in the sqd, and I kicked my guys home to be with the family, work on CCAF, PT, etc as often as I possibly could. Big picture focus truly kept our sqdn running smoothly. Boss told us he would worry about big picture, and leave little picture crap to us as long as the little picture crap got done. Best dude I ever worked for! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD