slackline

I think my view led to protests, riots no. The extremists and opportunists took advantage. It is deplorable they did it. I'll even agree with you that some leaders on the left were pushing that narrative, but most weren't. On the right, most were pushing Trump's narrative. That's a problem.

You were involved in many of the discussions involving this topic, so I know you've seen the data that has been posted on this forum ad nauseum, so I'm not going to waste my time reposting it all. You must not have read my post if you're still saying I'm buying a vision of a racist America. I don't. I do, however, think there are problems that need to be addressed. Very credible sources from both sides of the aisle have been posted and disregarded by people in here. I've read the opposing side. There's a few black people siding with you claiming, "I overcame, so can anyone." That's not wrong, anyone can, but it ignores the unique challenges POC face. The rest of the evidence posted by the other side is a bunch of white people refusing to admit their could possibly be a problem. I'm not claiming America is racist. It's more progressive and forward thinking than most countries. We're called out for stuff by countries that are way worse than us. I lived on the French economy for 3 years. Waaaaay more racist! This is the best country in the world, hands down! I'm just saying we could be better.

Except for the volumes of fact based data and evidence proving that there are significant problems with the way policing is handled for one color vs another. Latest example is the largely white people mob that violently stormed the Capitol (one cop even died from the blue lives matter crowd) and then were allowed to leave vs the way many of the protests from this summer were handled. But I guess that's also just the media spinning it. Where were the volumes of facts and data evidencing the election fraud? So cool, keep believing that... People in the know aren't saying America is racist or that innocent black people are always targeted. They're talking about systems that have problems needing fixes and the disparity in the way black suspects are handled vs white suspects. Extremists and ignorant people claim otherwise because of ignorance pushed by the media at times, but those driving the movement aren't claiming what you're saying. On the other hand, the President and all of his elected enablers were pushing his falsehoods and conspiracy theories. This is not an apples to apples comparison.

It's called critical thinking. It needs to be taught by parents and teachers. We need to realize it's impossible to mask our biases, but do our best to try. Even when I agree with a point my 18 year old is making I try to get him to examine it from all sides. Try to understand what makes the other side tick, why they think the way they do, and encourage him not to shut out the people he disagrees with when they can't find common ground. Teachers need to do a better job of this starting in high school and solidify those principles in college. It should be part of any good teacher certification program to encourage thought from all sides, and keep your own thoughts out of the discussion unless specifically required by the subject matter being taught. Good luck...

Media absolutely holds blame in this, 100% agreed. I did not catch that that was the intent of your post at all, my bad. I might disagree on the reasons though. They gave him way too much airtime because they only care about ratings and he brings in the watchers. Many other reasons, but yes media holds blame. For Wednesday, nowhere near as much as Trump and his team of enablers. They caused Wednesday. People spouting the lies non-stop about the election being stolen. I think he got elected because people are sick of politicians. That's a good reason for him to have made the debate stage, not to have been elected. It was painfully obvious early on he was a sideshow, uninformed in US politics let alone world politics, and everyone on the right knew it. They didn't take him seriously because they're all vain and narcissistic, so they took down real, a few decent options, for president, leaving him to be the nominee... He rode a wave of voter disgust into the oval office, then failed to ever elevate the discussion to something worthy of the office. His biggest enemies became his most ardent supporters. Their blatant, disgusting hypocrisy on full display for the world to see. That stuff will, and should haunt people like Cruz and Graham the rest of their political lives. Clearly out for themselves and whatever will get them the votes, not what is good for the country.

Your memory is so biased and one sided it’s kind of hilarious. But, as has been said on here time and again, that’s politics. The fact that you (royal You, not individual you) are already done with your “disgust” from Wednesday’s events and have so readily moved on to comparisons about what happened this summer is predictable, and it’s already happening everywhere on the right. Everything that happened this summer was due to decades of unfair treatment, but so many on the right (often because life is pretty dang comfortable for them) never believed that POC weren’t being offered the same kind of leeway in the realm of crime and punishment that others were anyway. Anything that amounted to a riot/looting was wholly wrong! Period, dot! But yeah, I’ll say it, I understand where they’re coming from, where their frustration comes from, and why they may feel they are at a boiling point. Nothing appears like it will ever change, and those on the right, even moderates, are deaf to their cries. Doesn’t justify/excuse riots/looting, but it does make it somewhat understandable. Now, Wednesday. Come on, I dare you to say that those people felt the same way, and have been dealing with decades of the same treatment. Do it with a straight face. They’ve been fed a steady stream of lies from Trump and his enablers (we’ve heard it a TON from members of this forum) about election fraud and stealing the election since the 2020 election started to become a headline. Trump even tried to blame election fraud on his loss of the popular vote in 2016. So I’ll even say you could get away with saying they’ve been hearing this garbage for 4 years. Not decades of horrible, unfair mistreatment at the hands of policing institutions. We’re not going to start that debate here, none of you believe it even with the mountains of facts and data that have been provided. My point is comparing this week with the summer’s events outside of saying any type of riot/looting/violence is unacceptable is gross and a farce. Stop looking for ways (in general to the Right, not you KA) rationalize/compare what happened this week to what happened over the summer. They’re not the same. We have not been on this track for a while. Trump and his enablers actively fomented these loonies on the right. Trump wanted this to happen. He wanted to burn it all down. He’s never cared about anything other than Trump. The fact that some of you couldn’t see that earlier is laughable.

Thanks, I don’t entirely agree with your premise, but the considered response is appreciated.

I’m no Democrat, and like you, I am afraid of what they could potentially do now that they are in control. Also, like you, I doubt they’re going to be able to do anything because they’re incompetent. Edited to add: Totally agree that the media is also partly to blame for stoking the contention in this country. Their one-sided views are obvious and haven’t really helped, but made it worse! That being said, let’s not get crazy here, how do Democrats hold part of the blame here? You’ve completely failed to make that case. Yesterday was a direct result of a sitting president spouting lies and disinformation for well over 6 months! He’s been talking about the election being stolen for a very long time. His Republican allies/enablers allowed it to keep going by at times just keeping their mouths shut and at times spouting the exact same garbage. Yesterday was a direct result of a president stoking an already angry crowd to levels of action they would not have taken otherwise. Please, explain how anything the Democrats could have done to keep yesterday from happening that lies within the bounds of reason. Should they have allowed the numerous, baseless challenges to the election go through the processes to be investigated? Guess what, they did, and they all failed to meet the threshold. Should they have done more to promote the election process via in person voting vs mail in or other methods? How does/would that have put a muzzle on Trump? It wouldn’t have. He didn’t get his way, so he had zero intention of ever being quiet. Trump is a petulant child. We’ve known that for years. Republican enablers, from educated officers/people in here to elected officials are to blame for yesterday. Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul just to name a few elected officials knew exactly who he was during the election and they called him out for his lack of intelligence, empathy, political savvy, and every other reason he would make a poor president. Instead of taking the position, okay, he’s who we’ve got, let’s make the best of it while holding his feet to the fire, they took the position of, well, let’s completely ignore all the problems we know he could cause and embrace him fully! They enabled his poor behavior over the last 4 years. They turned a blind eye to his rhetoric and absolutely ignorant actions. They hold the blame for the Democrats taking the House earlier, and now the Senate this week. It is silly to blame Democrats for yesterday’s actions. But it isn’t surprising after watching 4 years of apologists excusing behavior from Trump. Again, no supporter of Democrats here, I think, if they can hold it together, we’re in for a bumpy ride. I’m hoping they’ll continue to be as incompetent as they have been. If you want to cast blame on them for the general political climate, that’s fair. But Trump and his supporters (many of whom knew what a dirtbag he was before he was elected, but seemed to forget that) are squarely at fault for the doubt cast on our electoral process and yesterday’s attack on democracy. This was not a physical coup with any real shot at success, but it was definitely an attack on our way of life that will have lasting damage. I hope that it will serve instead as a rallying cry to remind people of who we are and what our country stands for, so we can come together.

I'll admit coup is strong. But what term would you like to use? In your book a coup is only real if there is a legitimate shot at it working? Doesn't matter if the people who were doing it took it seriously, put Trump flags up instead of the American flag, took everything Trump said seriously? They would attack right now if Trump called for it. It would get crushed immediately, and have zero shot at working. Doesn't change that this is the first time since the Brits attacked that our Capitol has seen any action. Doesn't change that this was a disgusting attack on our way of life. That's not nothing. Your ambivalent attitude about it is gross, and yes, I said gross. You'd be pissed if this happened due to a social justice action...

Oh, they don't fit your definition of conservative, so you don't own them. Some. Of those people were radicals, and a lot of them were normal conservatives whipped up they their commander, a man they saw as their ruler, not President. A man who's been lying to them since before the election, setting the scene for what happened today! Pathetic! People on here are rightly calling it. Furious at protests/riots this summer, but begrudgingly admitting that what happened today is bad. This is deeply disappointing. Also, not just a small group in DC. State capitol buildings experienced the same things. That sounds like a coup. How some of you still aren't willing to admit this was a horrible attack on democracy is beyond me. https://www.vox.com/2021/1/6/22217736/state-capitol-stop-the-steal-protests-rallies

I assume he was saying this because he was defending all the people protesting/rioting over social justice issues when he says “great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long.” Right? That’s what he’s referring to, right?

I’d love to hear from Sim, Seadogs on your claim. Edited to add this gem on the differences of how police handled the peaceful protests/riots for social justice vs a violent breach of the nation’s Capitol. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ikrd/comparing-scenes-from-the-attempted-coup-to-blm-protests

So, the lady that was shot in the Capitol today just died. Does the instigator in chief hold any responsibility? I’d say he does. He fired the crowd up, he said, “we’ll walk to the Capitol, I’ll be coming”, he said it, “will be wild,” and other crap. He got those Trumpkins so fired up they did stupid things. Inexcusable for a president to do that, to say what he said. https://www.businessinsider.com/woman-shot-in-capitol-amid-pro-trump-protest-2021-1 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh, and media is totally acting disgusting in this whole mess today. Totally agreed! You’re not the media, so I hold you to a higher standard [emoji23]. All depends on perspective. Sen Duckworth (sp?) was interviewed and said something along the lines of, “no I wasn’t worried, this is the Capitol for crying out loud, not Mogadishu!” Some other D, forget his name, decided to go the complete opposite direction with his comment talking about how incredibly scary it was. Let’s not diminish how serious it is by making it seem more of a threat than it really was. No real threat at all, but still a totally reprehensible crime and assault on Democracy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nevermind

Is that Sim, or Seadogs? I get so confused sometimes...

Man, I'm the Boomer, didn't catch that one either. Deleted my post.

I don't care who you're for, that's funny 😂

This is hard to read! This is not supposed to happen in the US!

Umm, the incredibly divisive discussion in here and everywhere else would lead one to believe, yes, yes they did. You're splitting hairs if you are trying to say, no they just didn't want Biden. You have members of this forum that have said he's better than Reagan... You want us to believe they're outliers?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/06/liberals-to-breyer-retire-455321?cid=apn This embodies “wokeness” going wrong. They’re trying to force a justice to retire just so they can nominate a female POC to be another “first.” I think it’s been made pretty clear by many of my posts that I’m all about equality, but this is definitely a case of taking it too far.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/john-dillermand-denmark-launches-childrens-tv-show-man-giant-penis?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1 Okay...

I’ll disagree on the Europe being anything close to collectivist societies. At least anecdotally my experience in France differs immensely. Lived on the economy for 3 years, and they protest the government, violently I might add more than anyone out there. No such thing as being “largely more collective and falling into the fold once their government lays down the gravel.” Not even close. Strikes and protests are in their DNA. As I’ve talked with military and civ friends from my time over there, they’re not happy at all with the lockdowns they’ve experienced. The messaging has been different from the beginning however, that this is being done to help out each other. If you’re saying that makes them more collectivist, maybe we could do with a little more of that flavor; being willing to put up with significant discomfort for the greater good. I realize there are large chasms between what people think is “for the greater good.” Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree with most of your sentiment, but it was definitely Trump’s inflammatory words. You’re kidding yourself if you think otherwise. He’s the only reason Cruz was grandstanding, to pacify Trump’s crazy followers (not rational people like you, but those that believe he can do no wrong), and Trump’s constant talk about the fake election was more of a motivator for D turnout than anything they did on their own. On top of that, it had to have affected R turnout. It’ll be interesting to see the #s when this is all said and done. My bet is lots of Rs that thought it was pointless so they didn’t show up when it mattered. This was clearly the Rs race to win, and as has been stated above, Trump’s goal to burn it to the ground seems to have worked... You reap what you sow, and now we’re screwed. Not happy the Ds are in the driver’s seat. I will say that, at least on the surface, they seem to care more about people than they do about the upper echelons of society like it seems with the Rs. May only be perception, but you know what they say about perception being people’s reality. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Seriously? Government overreach on a mask mandate is your big takeaway? Masks are destroying businesses? I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but were/are seatbelts an overreach? People still die while wearing them, should we get rid of that too? Other poor government decisions related to covid are ruining businesses, 100% agreed. Stop making this all about masks, it just sounds stupid. Once again, stellar leadership on the part of our CINC has made something so simple and effective a political tool. And so many sheep just jumped on board. If people would just stop complaining about masks and realize it’s not some twisted govt plot to slowly exert govt control over you (a la frog in boiling pot) we could be much closer to the end of this mess. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk