Rusty Pipes

^^^ THIS ^^^ Drove/drives me crazy to see guys getting all wrapped up flying some crazy tactical approach... and then Evergreen and a Tanker land right behind them on the ILS... and neither of those 2 were unstable or forgot to put their gear down!

You got it all wrong... an FE with two Masters degrees who just cross flowed from a 130J landed gear up flying solo in a C-17; turns out he was sexually harassing the gay singer from Tops in Blue at the time that he was planning the Christmas Party with when he learned he got passed over for a second time for Lt Col and got non-continued. Now he doesn't know what to do because he wanted to sign the bonus that got delayed and isn't sure if he can still transfer his GI Bill to his kids. All of this happened while landing at the wrong airport in Tampa when he was supposed to be landing in Benghazi, but just as he was manually calculating TOLD he got a call from both Obama and Clinton telling him not to go. He was planning on getting out any day now anyway when the Airlines start their massive hiring wave! I guess they already had the court martial and he got convicted by a bunch of shoes on the jury, but a 3 Star overturned the verdict. So when all was said and done... it was pretty much a long week for Rainman!

I can't even imagine the thoughts of those poor guys trying to make that damn jet fly... :beer:

No it’s back to not overloading pilots (and all officers to that point) with queep that management values more than job performance. Too many penguins on the iceberg! When Lts/young Capts going on their first ever combat deployment are more worried about the hours of the testing center and how good the wifi is for their AAD classes than they are about their combat missions... well, you start forgetting to put the gear down and you start landing on the wrong runways because maybe their focus isn't where it is supposed to be. I have a great idea; let’s add FEs to both C-17s and 130Js... That should free pilots up to gets an online PhD!!!

Fine... there isn't too much to handle in a C-17 or a 130J that two "properly trained" pilots "who are allowed to focus on their job as pilots as opposed to focusing on career box checking at the direction of careerist commanders who are committed to an officer corps of clone followers that fit their own mold" can't handle. Is that better???

The FE probably didn't know about all the Ecstasy that was stashed down in the cargo compartment! See, nobody likes the FEs... they won't even let them in on the easy cash from an international drug ring! Hahahaha... sorry, that one was too easy!!! No more trash talking from me on Mother's Day...

Well yeah, aside from the dozens of C-5 guys that requested and were given a cross flow to C-17s at both Dover and Travis that I've flown with who said they liked the C-5, but would never go back to it after flying the C-17... so aside from those few dozen guys that I've met, flown with and actually discussed this exact subject with... you're right! I also recall a C-5 crew at Dover landing on the wrong runway on a local... I also remember one landing on the wrong runway at Balad. I'm not trashing my C-5 bros... I knew guys on both of those crews and they were good pilots. Like I said, shit happens and it can happen to anyone... something about glass houses though???

"I really wish I had an FE right about now!" "Man, I wish I were a C-5 pilot..." ...SAID NO C-17 PILOT EVER!!! The biggest C-17 haters in the world are FE's... sorry guys, but get over it. Nothing personal, but C-17s don't want or need you. Lots of stupid shit happens in all airframes... we've seen C-130s (with a Nav and FE) CFIT on a low level, a C-5 (with 2 FEs) crash short at Dover! Hmmm... I seem to recall a certain KC-135 pilot who shut down all 4 engines at the FAF at Kadena a few years back leading to a caution or warning saying that you aren't supposed to do that! I think I recall a few stories about jets wandering into Iran too... not C-17s. Crazy shit happens sometimes. I don't need an FE and I don't need a Nav... and there isn't too much to handle in a C-17 or a C-130J that two pilots can't handle. I just think that if we let our pilots be pilots and actually placed importance on being a good pilot that some of these stupid and preventable things might just go away. EXCEPTION: The guy who shut down all 4 at Kadena... sometimes you just can't fix stupid!

Nope, I was a quick upgrade to instructor myself because I was an prior MWS instructor; I jumped over a lot of guys actually... and I have absolutely nothing against ACIQ bros. You look at most of the major C-17 incidents (excluding Alaska) and from the outside it looked like experienced crews (IP with 2 Fps), but the IPs were ACIQ who were rushed to IP. In my last Sq we had several ACIQs who were being pushed to upgrade to IP by the "leadership" for career reasons and they were coming to me saying they were still getting comfortable flying the damn jet, let alone being an instructor! I've been in two AMC MWS and know that this happens in all communities, but in the C-17 they turn it up to 11.

Hours vs. experience in the C-17 very often have nothing to do with each other. You take a FAIP, C-21 guy or a cross flow... either send them through a direct left seat program or upgrade them in min time to AC... 2-3 trips later with multiple pond crossings they have enough hours to technically go to IP school and off you go! Next thing you know you have an "IP" with only about 300 hrs in the jet (half of it was in the bunk or at FL350 trying to stay awake talking to Gander) with 2 "First Pilots" with about 300 total hrs each flying combat missions; so essentially this experienced IP (sarcasm) is flying combat missions solo. If it happens to be a cross flow golden boy from AMC/Intern... it is almost an all our race to get them to be an IP if not an EP. Welcome to the C-17 community... As far as your second point... yes! We don't know what happened yet at Dover though... so as much as we like to decide guilt before innocence in the Air Force these days maybe we should find out what happened before we start ending people's careers via this forum.

Tell me about it... my boss just made me remove all of the pictures of the wives of the other guys in my office wearing bikinis that I had on my desk! Some people are so sensitive!!! I mean seriously, it’s not like it was the naked pictures I had of them up!!!

I saw people online yesterday when this came out complaining about how having NFL Cheerleaders and attractive female actresses/singers on USO tours was "alienating a substantial part of our fighting force in the AOR".

If you have signed away all parental rights and custody to a child and are asked if you have children (even on an SF86) and you say no, you are not lying. I have had several TS and higher security investigations and re-investigations done in my career... not once in an interview have I been asked about my children... not once! BTW... I know the speed limit on the way to work this morning was 65... I was doing at least 75 the whole way (knowingly breaking the law); I hope they don't yank my clearance. I also hope that past discretions doesn't mean I'll be presumed guilty of a terrible crime by people like you 10 years from now because of my history of willingly breaking the law! While it is unfortunate, I can say that I've known dozens of people in Squadrons who at some point cheated on their spouse (men and women) and the spouse found out about it, but they worked it out and are still together. This includes two current Squadron Commanders in Ops Flying Squadrons. If I heard they were in a similar situation as Wilkerson I wouldn't think for a second that the chick they hooked up with in Vegas that weekend or in K-Town on that trip 10 yrs ago meant they were predisposed to this type of behavior.

I will start with this... the fact that adultery is a prosecutable crime under the UCMJ is absolutely stupid! You want to talk about budget savings... how much does the DoD spend prosecuting this "crime" every year? I get it, cheating is bad and I don't condone it... but as far as I'm concerned, if his wife knew about it and also knew he signed away parental rights then it isn't any of my or your business and it isn't a "secret child". As far as him not supporting the child, you have no idea what the agreement was between him and the woman. I guess I either have a bad memory or got a different questionnaire than you did, but I've had a TS or higher clearance for my whole career... I don't remember the part where they asked anything about having an affair or having a "secret child". I don't care that Slick Willey and JFK were using the Oval Office like the Jungle Room at Graceland and I don't care that Gen Patreaus and Eisenhower were letting some "advisor" polish their Stars in the AOR... and I certainly don't want to spend money for some JAG to prosecute the 21 year old SrA for "adultery" because his soon to be ex-wife was pissed when she found out he is dating his old high school girlfriend while they are separated just waiting on some State timeline requirement for a divorce decree to be signed! Before we start convicting guys of crimes because of something they did 10 years ago (that isn't a crime to any other American) and isn't remotely related to the facts of this case, maybe we should go back 10-20 years on those in Congress and talk about glass houses. And before you start chiming in with blackmail/extortion over cheating and security clearances... I get it. But how much of that goes away if you remove the UCMJ violation part? Rant complete...

I have never met the guy, but know a few guys who know him in one way or another and I haven't heard that he is a DB... I guess innocent until proven guilty. I will tell you one thing though, if you look at most of the comments posted to the various online articles about this (and I mean major media outlets, not just military hater bloggers) every male in the military (especially the AF) is apparently a well trained sexual assaulting expert with the full backing of every General in the DoD! There may very well be another side to this story, but in the court of public opinion this guy certainly didn't do any of us any favors... damage is already done!

This...

It was in 2017 and based on the proposed pay scale... and it was $93K. And it is not for a wide body either...

Really? I guess if airlinepilotcentral.com says it then it must be true. United and US Air are hiring right now... AA and US Air are about to become just AA (the world's largest airline) with just a handful of recalls left and almost 75% of their current pilot force retiring in the next 20 yrs... new agreement has FO first year pay almost tripling between now and 2017, which unless there is some sort of major meltdown will be approved. Over the years you could have questioned the financial viability of different airlines, but you can't question time... and when a pilot hits 65 he/she hits 65! No way around that one. But I guess that's just bad gouge, right?

I have a buddy who was recently hired by a Major... was briefed that starting next year and for the unforeseeable future their company will be hiring 300-500 each year... pay for a first year FO in 2017 is up to $93K. Yeah, I can see guys punching at 17 yrs for seniority reasons. Would definitely be a tough call, but I think Big Blue is going to have to do something drastic to keep their pilots in the next few years... bigger and more flexible bonuses is an obvious answer. More money... maybe a 3 or 1 year bonus option? If all of this hiring really starts to happen at the pay rates that are being thrown around then I think the AF is going to have to resign itself to the fact that about 75% of their pilots will be jumping ship and 10 yrs!

This would be an easy one to bring to your congressman. You get commissioned as an Officer, not a pilot. There is nowhere in ROTC, OTS or USAFA where you are specifically trained as a pilot (other than maybe the powered flight program, but that is more of an orientation thing and you don't get any rating with it)... you are being trained to be an Officer. So if you are an O-1 who is selected for SEALS, Rangers, PJs, etc and you get washed out are they going to boot you and hand you a bill? I hate to use the trite expression about UPT/becoming a military pilot, but if it was easy then everyone would do it. They purposely build in attrition rates to every school, that just makes sense. We had a few guys wash out of my UPT class who wanted nothing more than to be wearing a set of wings, they just weren't cut out for it. Guess what... they passed all of the tests and screenings to get into the program... they had every intention of becoming pilots and the Air Force (through their various screening processes) thought they could make it through, but no AFOQT or BAT test can simulate pulling Gs or flying formation in July in a Tweet (I'm dating myself). If UPT ever had a 100% graduation rate (for other than PC reasons) then it would be proving that it isn't hard enough.

I'd like to know the answer to this question too... If they want guys to sign the bonus then it should be for the FY starting 1 Oct. It's not their fault they couldn't get their shit together 9 months into the FY. For guys who are prior service or late to rate this could be a factor where it puts them past 20 yrs. Not sure what the rules will be this year, but another whole can of worms is the guys who were passed over for O-5 and continued to 20... who have to get out at 20! Will they not be eligible if as of this past Oct 1 they only had 4 1/2 yrs left to hit 20?

I love the irony of this... All of these box checking Sq/Gp/Wg Commanders will tell pilots who actually want to do their job instead of all the meaningless queep (AAD/PME in Cor/Etc) that they are an "Officer First" instead of a pilot, but then you have a kid who either washes out or quits UPT/Flight Screening and they say, "Sorry, we hired you to be a pilot... you're out and here is the bill".

Unfortunately 2 Stars in charge of flying wings don't write the PT policy. I'm not saying it is right, but if his choice were in the other direction the same folks on here bitching about the decision would be bitching about how a bunch of Airmen were being kicked out while the policy didn't apply to Senior Leaders. Our PFT and PT policy is dumb... losing good people who are great at their jobs because their waist is too big or they can't do a certain number of push ups is not the right was of doing business no matter what rank they are.

My buddy saw an old DO of ours who just finished a tour as a Wing CC and he asked him what the worst part about being a Wing CC was... "The most frustrating thing was when the AF forced me to kick out several outstanding troops who were great at their jobs just because they couldn't pass part of a PT test, but the useless slugs who sucked at their jobs and didn't give a shit, I was forced to keep." Maj Gen Bender, the guy who fired him, is definitely one of the good guys. I've heard a few unconfirmed stories from guys who work in his office that there is a little more to the story than just the waist measurement (no crazy scandal or anything), but it was a tough call where the Gen didn't have much of a choice. With that being said I think that PT standards need to be looked at for the good of the service. Passing a PT test for an 20 year old infantry soldier makes sense. While the soldier obviously needs to use his brain and think on the battle field, for the most part his body is the MWS... if he isn't in shape then he can't do his job and the lives of his fellow soldiers as well as the mission depend on it. When I do my walk around at Kabul and see some hydraulic fluid leaking out of an engine cowling, the last thing on my mind when the FCC is the only guy who can fix it is how many push-ups he can do or what his waist measurement is. This Wing CC didn't get the job because of his 1.5 mile time... he was hired for his brain, his management skills and (hopefully) his leadership skills. I've had more than a few co-pilots who spent 7 hrs crossing the pond talking about their workout plans and the different supplements they were taking who couldn't land the plane to save their life. I understand that the General probably didn't have a choice, but its a shame to see a Commander (who by all accounts was one of the good ones) be drummed out for something like this.

We are in different Air Forces. This is not a CAF/MAF debate, but what you said above hasn't really been an option for 90% of MAF guys for the past 10 yrs. Between 2003-2008 your typical C-17 Capt (CP or young AC) was doing 3 weeks on the road with between 18 hrs and 2 days at home before heading back out for another 3 weeks... Tanker toads were doing 60 on 60 off... Slick guys were doing 120 on 60 off... C-5s were the same as the C-17... Spec Ops 130 guys, well they were just gone. The point is that at all of those bases there were brick and mortar schools that were close by, but any "real" school with a "real" professor isn't going to let you be a full time student in their program where you can't attend 90% of the classes. For these people (I was one of them), Embry Riddle or the old Toro was the only option. You can say that there are "respected" schools with online programs, but those aren't real degrees either. Your Masters degree from the University of Maryland at College Park is not the same as my Masters degree from University of Maryland University College at College Park (online). Just like a Masters degree from Embry Riddle is not the same as Embry Riddle Worldwide which is printed on the diploma I have stuffed in a box in the garage somewhere. I have a buddy from UPT who did 2 Ops tours in F-15C's who has about 1,300 hrs and zero Combat hours and a 120 day CAOC tour... another buddy in KC-135s with 2 Ops tours that has 4,500 hrs with almost 4,000 Combat hrs and a dozen Air Medals (only because he just stopped putting in for them) and a dozen or so deployments to the sand box. Both are great dudes and great pilots; both played the box checking game... but yeah, because of the type of war we have been in for the past 11 yrs and how each of their MWS's were employed they were most definitely in 2 different Air Forces. One has a Masters from a brick and mortar school, the other from Embry Riddle... I'll let you figure out who has what. I guarantee you that Embry Riddle was not his first choice. I guess it doesn't matter now because they were both on terminal leave a month before their ADSC was up... one using his real MBA now and the other just got hired by a Major Airline a few weeks ago... I'm pretty sure that Embry Riddle masters was not a factor in the hiring process, but the real MBA was.