Rusty Pipes

I agree that people definitely need to be fired, but are you saying that it should be limited to A1/AFPC types? I'm not saying that there should be some sort of witch hunt, but I think the CSAF could very quickly gain a lot of that thrust back that has been lost by replacing a few managers with Leaders... and he could start at the Wing Commander level. I have a few old bosses that are O-6/O-7s now who are true leaders that I would follow anywhere. They see the mess and know what they can do to fix it, but they are holding back because if they rock the boat too much they know they will be done, so they just fix what little they think they can. I don't know you, Liquid... but from the majority of your posts on here you sound like you might be one of these types of guys. If the CSAF empowered these Leaders and backed them up with the common sense changes we need... you'd get not only that thrust back, but some of that trust back.

Ha... a "dislike" from Butters! Come on, that was some funny shit!!!

Translation... "All of the complete shit bag leeches that we were hoping would apply haven't because they are perfectly happy sucking on the teet of Uncle Sugar; unfortunately we fire wall 5'd all of them since their first EPR and for some unknown reason we have been telling all of them all they were all "warriors" who were just as important to the fight sitting in their cubical as those actually fighting these wars... so if we try to kick them out for poor performance they will all have a great IG complaint. I mean seriously... we've been giving half of these clowns Bronze Stars for 179s to the Deid as finance troops; so we'll probably lose that fight. So as it stands, what we have for applicants for VSP and TERA right now is only 9,999 of the 10,000 pilots in the Air Force... from my understanding the only pilot who hasn't applied is some guy named Butters; apparently he doesn't believe these programs are real."

I saw the original e-mail (I have not connection to the Bone, T-6 FAIPs or MC-12s... good news obviously travels fast since I got a copy the day he sent it); both his Sq CC and DO were CC'd on the e-mail... interested to hear what (if anything) they had to say about it. That would be very telling.

Interesting... haven't seen Liquid chime in on this thread in quite some time; although he has commented on a few other threads. Welsh and most of the other GOs at the Puzzle Palace are most definitely either reading or being told about John Q. Public blogs which have covered this very topic from a few different angles in the past few weeks... but yesterday was the first he heard of "VSP issues"? I still think CSAF is one of the good guys... he needs to fire a few folks to get his message across and make things happen. Otherwise he just looks like a lot of talk. Welsh is an actual Leader... your everyday crew dawg hacking the mish is ready to follow (and actually dying to follow a true leader)... make it happen, Boss!!!

I know several folks who were given a verbal "good to go" on an assignment this summer (I'm one of them), but hear they weren't going to load them until this month. Just curious if there is anyone out there who has had an assignment for the summer cycle loaded yet or if that is going to be delayed by this whole VSP/TERA delay mess?

The TERA mandatory retirement date is 1 Aug... how can they delay this anymore without pushing that date back? Not only are they screwing over the guys who get approved, they are also screwing over the bosses who get notified the guy who is in their one deep position will start Terminal leave tomorrow and won't be replaced until the Fall at the earliest. As much as everyone bashes the AF on here we do have some pretty good dudes/dudettes who are Squadron Commanders out there and right now (by no fault of their own) they are losing credibility every day with these last minute changes. How can they look their folks in the eye and say "trust me" when this crap keeps happening... I do not envy their position in the slightest.

Well I guess that all the guys who are going to School and planned on staying in won't get paid to do so. Those who want to get out can try to VSP. That leaves those who are not School types, but want to stay for one reason or another and just won't get paid for it. I'm sure they will get a handful of guys who will get out because they can't get the bonus, but it solves the problem of paying people who had every intention of staying in the first place... will suck for the 11M sitting next to the 11F in Polifka with $18K less in his bank account though.

Ha... they don't need to offer a Bonus when there is Stop Loss!!! Seriously though, was the year group (11Ms) that would be eligible for ACP next year part of the VSP/RIF eligible group?

I'm working in a mostly civilian DoD Organization and we have several cases where GS-14s work for O-4s... although I think that may be because most of those military billets are coded for an O-5 with 1up/down options. Individual Performance Plans and Position Descriptions should be reviewed at least annually (I know there are only certain windows where you can update them though... maybe only once or twice a year IIRC). If they don't meet the conditions set by their IPPs then you can hit them on their Civilian Appraisal. I feel your pain though... we have plenty of GS-13/14s running around here creating work to justify their jobs; of course many of them are even bad at accomplishing the work they created themselves!

If you are current and qualified with enough hours to get hired by the bankrupt "Butters Air" and sitting at the 17-18 year point when you are offered an assignment you could either accept the assignment (along with the 2 yr PCS ADSC), 7 day opt and get nothing for your 18 yrs of service if you have no ADSC (you would obviously be insane to do this) or apply for TERA if you were eligible. You'd only get about 45% vs the full 50% for getting to 20 yrs, but would easily make up for that 5% difference with a line number 2 yrs earlier.

Line number, pending PCS, wife has a great job lined up, wife/kids live on the other side of the country, so kids can move before school starts, Chang just moved in next door... lots of valid reasons where the 49.69% retirement vs 50% makes more sense.

I have heard of a continued Nav or two approved, but haven't heard of any pilots approved for TERA although I'm sure there are a few out there. I know the whole first batch of guys who applied when the window opened were denied because the Retirements office at AFPC didn't even know that Continued types were eligible... geniuses. I know another example of a pilot (not continued) who was just denied TERA with 19+ yrs because he had 1 month left on an ADSC for training. If they won't approve TERA for a pilot with over 19 yrs due to 1 month left on an ADSC I have no idea who they are willing to let go. I guess they don't really save anything by letting someone retire at 19 yrs and 9 months, but that one seems like a no-brainer. Anyone else hear of any weird cases like this one?

Well... except for the fact that every one of them that I know who was a continued pilot and applied when the window was opened has already been denied TERA. Apparently there is one of those pilot shortage things going on... cue Butters.

How do you convince the majority of those in senior leadership positions that the very thing that they embrace and checked every box along the way to achieve... that the results of that process (i.e.THEM) is terribly flawed and needs to be changed? The boss may very well be very gently opening and closing the door during these meetings and then kicking in teeth behind those closed doors, but it will take a lot more than inspirational speeches to convince a bunch of Generals and O-6s that they are the problem and that we don't want to continue to promote in their own images. If there isn't a certain degree of teeth kicking going on from the Chief I'm worried that many will just pay lip-service to what the boss is trying to do and just wait him out. That would be a shame because I think he is the best actual leader we've seen in a long time.

Ha... but sometimes the salmon runs into a bear along the way. It never ends well for the salmon!

Like everyone who posts on here, throughout my career I have worked for so terrible Commanders and I've worked for some great Commanders; Don Shaffer was one of the great ones! That guy has some balls and was never shy about taking on anyone (even his bosses) when he was in the right and standing up for his guys... we most definitely need more like him. I'll tell you what... man, was it fun/entertaining to watch that guy pick a fight!

I know that everyone is focused on VSP here in the past week, but has anyone heard of anyone being approved for TERA yet? I know that a bunch have been denied, but I'm guessing the amount of pilots approved for TERA will be a good indication of how VSP will go.

Anyone used any of the Wolf Gold .223 for target ammo? I try to stay away from the foreign stuff especially since .223 is pretty easy to get these days, but I've read some good reports about it online and have seen some pretty decent deals on 1000 rd cases of the stuff. You just never know if the guys throwing out the good reviews happen to have a few pallets of the stuff in their shop that they're trying to unload.

Am I reading this right? Are you in Korea (or somewhere where you don't wear a tan flight suit) on a 365 and they are trying to deploy you to the desert from your current deployed location?

I agree with your cynicism, but disagree with your conclusion. If the Air Force wanted to direct pilots from Active Duty to the Reserves or Guard then that is what this program should have been. All this current program shows is that from the top down the Air Force management has no idea what the hell they are doing. I would bet a year’s pay that if the AF had announced this as a program for pilots to transfer from Active Duty to the Reserves or Guard with zero financial gain and nothing but a job as a traditional Reservist or Guardsman there would have been a line down the street and around the corner of volunteers. Instead the AF has gone out of its way to completely delete any sense of trust or loyalty between Big Blue and its already demoralized pilot force. There are lots of good dudes out there sitting in Squadron Commander positions who are genuinely trying to get out the best info they have and give the best career advice they can to their people... this certainly isn't on their shoulders and I don't envy them one bit. However, Big Blue is putting themselves and these Commanders in a terrible position. Non-continued 157, 2011 VSP/RIF debacle, 2014 TERA/VSP/RIF absolute nightmare... how can any of these Squadron Commanders (even the great ones) look in the eyes of any one of their troops asking them to trust them on anything and expect even the brand new 2nd LT Co-Pilot who walked in the door yesterday to have the slightest bit of faith that what they are saying is true?

Still no Chang, huh??? I figured Liquid would have at least checked in by now... at least you know you'll get an honest "senior Officer" perspective from him (to his credit). Pretty hard for anyone to defend both the TERA and VSP clown show though...

Hey Liquid... make sure to let your boss know that he has essentially lost the trust of his entire pilot force in less than a week! So they trick all of the 15-19 yr guys by telling them they are eligible for TERA and then rejecting all of their retirement applications saying they are no longer eligible after they are "confirmed" to be eligible and then apply for retirement (because the incompetent moron shoes at AFPC don't even know their own rules). Then they tell another whole group of pilots that they are eligible for VSP and then an hour prior to the application window opening (after everyone has obviously shown their cards to their boss) they change the criteria essentially making all pilots ineligible for VSP. This must be that vector everyone has been looking for... a vector directly to Sheppard Air and All ATPs! How does that saying go again? Fool me once, shame on you... Can you say, "Stop Loss" boys and girls???

What Butters said... but if there were such a huge glut of 11Ms and especially 11M FGOs then why would they need to cut Staff tours at 3 years to send us old and busted up FGOs back to Ops Sqs as gray beards to fly the line? I'm certainly not complaining, but it seems that we have been hearing that was just not going to happen. Calling Chang? Is Chang in the house??? He's been awfully quiet lately...

If it is anything like TERA, it'll be year group + AFSC to determine eligibility and then the following: 1. Once determined eligible they will change the rules 2. They take those determined eligible and determine if you are eligible;this will take 10 days depending on the eligibility of the eligible 3. The eligible that are determined they are eligible will tell their boss they are eligible... but only if they are eligible based on the new matrix of eligibility 4. Within 24 hours your boss will forward the e-mail from AFPC with your G-5 assignment to Aruba that has now been turned off 5. 3 weeks later Chang's 12 year old nephew will compare the list of applicants to the closing credits of the movie The Matrix and deny all of those not listed 6. Butters will say this proves there is no airline hiring boom coming 7. AFPC will announce a new $500K/10 year bonus for all TCN Escorts 8. Masters degree requirement will be masked on all promotion boards in favor of the new PhD requirement 9. FY 15 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA) thread started on Baseops.net by Rainman