Rusty Pipes

I just want to throw out a bit of a reality check to those who have applied for TERA or are planning on applying for VSP. I know Chang has been on here several times saying that the AF is fat on 11Ms and just flat out does not need Field Grade/gray beard pilots to go fly the line like we all had "back in the day". There are three of us in my office at Staff who are all 11M FGOs who have met all gate months and have 1 assignment left to hit 20 (1 guy has 5 yrs left, but close enough). 1 of us applied for TERA and the other 2 requested a 1 year extension at Staff... all 3 were denied and all 3 of us are now going back to an Ops Sq this summer. I was the TERA guy and was pissed about getting denied (just because it was the classic bait and switch, but figured it was too good of a deal to pass up), but hell... my last assignment will be flying and I'll be writing my OPRs in crayon from here on out so I really can't complain. Point is that if they are taking guys who are Staff FGOs with all of their gates complete and sending us back to Ops Sqs to fly the line then you probably need to be realistic about the possibility of them releasing anyone with an 11 AFSC no matter what the matrix says. When I got orders to Staff my buddy was the functional and told me that unfortunately the chances of me ever flying again without volunteering for a flying 365 were just about zero... but now in less than 3 years I will be back in an Ops Squadron flying the line. I'm sure there will be a few 11 types that will be released, but it will probably be a pretty low number. Good luck to everyone who has applied for TERA or is about to apply for VSP... I really hope it works out for all of you in the end!

Just looked up my case number on myPers... disapproved for TERA. They didn't even bother to e-mail me or contact me... I had to look it up myself. "Your AFSC, grade, or Year Group/Years of Service is not eligible or has been removed from the eligibility list for TERA. This retirement case is closed." Looks like this is the VSP/RIF from a few years ago all over again. Hey Big Blue... thank you so very much for telling me a few days before Christmas that I am eligible for TERA, reconfirming that online once I asked and then having me show my cards to my boss only to fuck me over in the end!!! Hahaha... you sure got me with that one!!! Hey Chang... tell me again all about the glut of 11M Field Graders out there that the AF flat out just doesn't need anymore! Apparently the E-2 and his 2 year old kid that is obviously running this shit show down at AFPC never got that memo!

But wasn't that the point of them doing the initial screening with the 10 day window where they checked to see if you were actually eligible or not? How is this any different than the last VSP where they told people they were eligible and then only after they submitted their applications told about 90% of them that they weren't eligible anymore? I really hope these are just a few initial cases where these folks are in jobs that are truly critical (which would be understandable) because this has the potential of making the last VSP/RIF debacle look like child's play. Right now we really need to be able to trust our "leadership"... this could go South very quickly; I really hope that doesn't happen. Catbox... I'd call or see if your boss will call the myPers hotline and see if you can get an exact reason why it was denied. Like Mountain said, they may have just missed that you were eligible due to being a continued guy and might reconsider. I heard there was some crazy number like 7000 people who had applied for this (not sure how accurate that is, was second hand info), but I'm guessing those folks are going blind looking at all the applications and honest mistakes are surely happening. A 12R may be something they just can't do without right now, but it is worth asking the question.

I have yet to hear of anyone approved... plenty have already been denied. I know of at least a half dozen guys who have posted here or on other forums that applied under one of the exemptions (19-20 yrs, continued, etc) which says you are eligible regardless of AFSC or year group. They followed the TERA directions and were confirmed by AFPC that they were indeed eligible... and then after filling out the retirement application and showing their cards to their bosses (and some delaying assignments) were disapproved with the reason given that they were denied due to AFSC and/or year group. I wonder if they have started the pre-flight for the rotator to OEF with all the newly denied TERA applicants who just "volunteered" for their 180 or 365?

Best advice I ever got from the best leader/Commander in my career that would apply to every kid in the room.... He said that when you have your first sit down with your new Commander after arriving at an assignment and you talk about goals, expectations, etc to tell him that your goal is that when he has the toughest mission, flight, or task; you want to have your name be the first one that comes to his mind to get the job done right.

I've seen a few guys on different forums say they have already been officially disapproved for TERA... anyone know anyone who has been approved yet? I also see some people saying they "called AFPC and they said XYZ"... exactly who are you calling at AFPC? The instructions specifically say not to call asking for updates/progress prior to 1 Apr... Our boss has said he wouldn't cal because he didn't want to piss off whoever was in the office with annoyance calls.

This guy spoke for about 20 mins at our Graduation Dinner at CBM as the Wing CC and used the term "ultimate sacrifice" at least a half dozen times. It was 2002 and the audience is filled with parents, grandparents, wives, girlfriends, young children... and this ass clown is talking about how he's sending us off to war and how some of us will likely give the "ultimate sacrifice"... over and over and over again! There were a few people actually crying! My brother was sitting next no me and we were laughing our asses off just because it was so ridiculous; my brother (who is not military) says, "Is this guy fucking serious saying this shit to everyone's wives and parents?" I don't ever remember hearing anything bad about him at the time, but that was pretty bad for Graduation Dinner comments.

Chang... we are most definitely not in the same Air Force. This has noting to do with good vs bad Commanders, it has to do with a mindset at the O-6 level and above that isn't going to change anytime soon. I am extremely cynical when it comes to sweeping changes even made from the CSAF that involve a complete mindset change of every Commander below him. Years ago as a young OG Exec I sat in a rack and stack meeting as a fly on the wall for an upcoming O-4 board back when the AAD was masked. The very specific guidance was that the AAD was to be masked and not considered or even seen by the Wing CC... when the rack and stack was complete and pushed up from the 4 flying Sq CCs and the OG/CC there was not a single individual without an AAD ranked above anyone who had one (and it was an openly discussed discriminator). My immediate "lesson learned/mentorship" passed to every co-pilot I flew with was no matter what anyone said about AADs or SOS in correspondence from that point out not being required (including the Sq CC) was just get it done because it was being used as a discriminator even if they said it wasn't. I've had several terrible Commanders and I've had several fantastic Commanders. One of the best Commanders I ever had was my last OG/CC who told me countless times sitting in his office shooting the shit at the end of the day how much of an incredible waste of time and effort it was for us to be getting useless AADs and doing PME in correspondence and said it was certainly taking away from us being better pilots... but his rack and stack was the same as the OG/CC above because if it wasn't his folks couldn't compete with the rest of their AF peers. That is the stage that has been set over the past 10 yrs and it probably won't be changing anytime soon. You call it cynical, I call it reality. He thought it was bullshit, but guess what... he knew everyone who had their AAD complete, their PME complete (and when they completed them) and yes, whether they signed the bonus or not. I know this because I was the one who had to get all of that info for him and put it on a nice little excel sheet by year group. I heard the horror stories of the 90s from all the old guys when I first came in, I saw the lines around the corner at the MPF for the first VSP, I saw the 157 get booted at 15 yrs with non-continuation (several were good friends of mine), I saw the complete disaster of the last VSP/RIF where we kicked out some fantastic pilots just to be "fair" to other AFSCs because we are all equal and like everyone else I am sitting back and watching the current fiasco of Force Shaping where the rules are actually changing several times a day to the point where even the folks at AFPC who are running the thing don't know what is going on... forgive me for not having great trust in the system right now just because some Troll (read Chang) is coming on here telling the passengers on the Titanic to just go back to their rooms and don't worry about the little chunks of ice on the deck! This has nothing to do with good Commanders and bad Commanders... I have plenty of good friends who are sitting Sq CCs right now and they are pulling their hair out over this mess. As Liquid said, I really hope the CSAF can pull this off correctly... but even if the Boss told every co-pilot in my Sq to their face that getting an AAD wasn't required; they'd all know they need to get it done anyway because we've all seen this movie before and the ending doesn't change. We have an actual leader as a Chief right now... hopefully some of the other GOs and O-6s start to follow his example. Most of the guys out there just want to be inspired... its been a while!

And when the AADs were masked they didn't see them either... but the Sq CC's knew and were ranking the guys with AAD's above anyone who didn't have one so it didn't matter if the board saw it or not, results were pre-determined.

Agreed, but if they get 50 applications to fill 20 release positions on the first day then the 3 month window just became a 1 day window. We are still being briefed that we will have the full window to apply for the voluntary programs and they are leaving out the part about them closing the program as soon as they reach their goals. I'm assuming most can read between the lines and know the track record from the previous attempts at this sort of stuff, but I have heard lots of folks who seem to still be under the impression (based on what they are hearing in briefings) that they will have these full windows to apply which most certainly won't be the case if you are lucky enough to be eligible and have an AFSC that starts with the number 11.

Are you guys still being briefed that VSP/TERA are NOT "first come, first served"? We are still being told that, yet we get this quote... “As programs are executed, volunteers will be used to the maximum extent possible to reach the necessary reductions. As overage targets are reached through volunteer programs, the corresponding AFSC will be removed from eligibility for non-voluntary programs. For instance, using this example, if the AF goal is to reduce 20 Officers in 32E, Civil Engineer Capt 2006 year group and 25 volunteer to separate through available programs, 20 Airmen will be approved for the voluntary program based on factors such as length of ADSC waivers, time in grade, time in service, etc. Once the target of 20 is reached in that AFSC or specific category, the remaining 5 would no longer be eligible and the specific grade, AFSC (and year group in the case of officers) would no longer meet an involuntary board. However, if the AF target is 20 and only 10 apply for voluntary programs, the remaining pool of eligibles will be looked at through the non-voluntary programs in order to reach the target of 20 reductions.” Using the quote above, you don't get anymore first come, first served as that. I understand that if 50 people apply for VSP/TERA on the first day for 20 releasable positions they will pick from all 50 that apply, but I read this as your "on the fence" decision window is probably the first day you are eligible to apply.

Just keep this in mind... You may have the coolest Commanders on the local level who will tell you themselves to your face when the day comes to sign/not sign the bonus that they completely understand you not signing and in no way see that at you "showing your cards" or not being a team player, but they are not the ones who matter. Your Sq, Group and Wing CC's will all be gone in 2 years max and the next guy could obviously have a 180 degree view. In reality though, it is the A1/AFPC shoe (read Chang) that you have never met and doesn't know the difference between a C-17 and an F-15 who will decide if they think you are "worthy" of making the cut. You are a number to him (as he will fully admit) and his job is to make the red numbers turn blue on his PowerPoint slide to some General. To you it is a personal choice... to him it couldn't be any less personal.

I will bet a year's pay that AFPC will receive enough volunteers, it just won't be the right volunteers. They can't let all of the VSP/TERA eligibles who apply leave and I'm sure they will meet more than their quota. I am still a bit confused when they say TERA isn't first come, first serve… yet they say they can close the program at any time. I know lots of folks who are eligible for TERA; most have said they are still deciding what to do while others applied the minute the application window opened. If they can only release 50 of 100 eligible in a year group (for easy math) and only 15 apply in the first week or two how can they not approve all 15 not knowing if they will get another 35? How is that not first come first serve? They can't RIF you after denying you TERA… sounds about as first come first serve as you can get. If it is anything like the last go around I'm guessing there won't be any shortage of people applying for VSP at Midnight on the 7th so first come first serve won't be an issue.

You're right… I'll bet the T-Bird ranked #7 of 7 should get working on that ATP right away! You should ask the SOLL II Commander in Charleston back in 2006 about when none of his 6 Left Seat, Evaluator pilots got school slots that year and they all took VSP because a barrage new "co-pilots" in the C-17 from KC-135 cross flows and AF Intern suddenly made them "average" on the Wing and OG Strat list. That was my first real eye opening experience where I saw that the AF had no real focus on actual pilot retention when the Wing lost what you could argue were 6 of its top pilots. If the AF is looking to keep the best party planners and queep managers then by all means just use Strats… if we want to keep our best pilots in these specific fields then we need to use a different method (of course starts will still be part of the mix). I honestly just think it depends on what the actual goal of the AF is as to who they want to keep. Then again… I'll go out on a limb here and say that most of your best pilots (if eligible) will be more concerned with their VSP paperwork being filled out correctly than their strat on an RRF.

Had a buddy (O-5) get notified he was SERB'd this morning… needs to retire this Spring. Not sure if everyone is notified at once or if they are doing it individually. Anyone else here of folks getting the call today?

I have both the M&P9 and 9c… I'm a big fan of both. Same as you said above… I've probably put about 2000 res through each and have yet to have a misfire. I've heard others saying they don't like the trigger, but I personally don't mind it. I will say I like the full size better than the compact, but I use the compact as my CC with a Galco V-Hawk IWB which I love. Got a great deal on the M&Ps at Quantico Tactical in VA… great military/LE special.

Let leaders lead… delegate this down to the Sq CC's and let the FGOs in the Squadron police themselves. I know that is a cosmic idea and hasn't been done in the past 5 yrs or so, but even when these were allowed a simple, "Seriously dude?" from an FGO to an LT or young Capt was usually enough to keep the inappropriate stuff out. Put out a generic Wing policy covering profanity, sexual references, etc and be done with it.

I'll take the spears… no problem. I really am glad that this layer of queep is being removed and give credit to those that made it happen, but this is easy no brainer kind of stuff. It is a step in the right direction, but if we want to keep our best people on both the O and E side we need to tackle the big issues and let the force know it is happening. We need to let our Officers lead at the O-4 and O-5 level and let them know innovation is not a bad thing instead of treating us like children who just don't get it. Colored t-shirts and morale patches are great, but we need to go back to the fundamentals of what makes a great military service… I hope a relief of this queep is just a start.

If that is all true I'll be happy to hear it officially… I genuinely think CSAF is looking out for us. I've met him several times and see him as one of the very few actual Leaders in our group of General Officers. Keeping anything like that a secret from a demoralized Officer corps that is praying for a blue box in the VSP matrix doesn't make much sense, but maybe after countless years of BOHICA I am more of a glass is half empty kind of guy as far as waiting for inspiration for our management is concerned.

Hey, I'm glad that this stupidity is being corrected, but it never should have happened in the first place… and now we are supposed to feel grateful for just a little less queep? Sorry, but when my pension was just cut by over $100K I'm not going to get excited about a colored t-shirt. They are talking about cutting Tri-Care for "working age" retirees with complete silence from our Generals and I'm supposed to get excited about Friday patches?

So let me get this straight… Still waiting on a "vector" from the CSAF, just got told on the Friday before Christmas that you might get a pink slip with an offer to apply for VSP/TERA where everyone had to show their cards to their boss only to have an 11th hour "just kidding" message come out from A1 and your future pensions were just compromised to ensure we can get more sub-par F-35s that we don't really need to the absolute silence of every General Officer… and we are on page 3 celebrating colored t-shirts and "fun meter" patches?!? Looks like Big Blue won this round… pretty sad.

Tony is a brilliant guy… "What's wrong with the Air Force" is that we lose actual Leaders like him that we can't afford to lose because of a system that is so broken that actual Leaders are not allowed to lead. He was assured multiple Stars if he had stayed, but I think he will actually be able to more for the military and Vets on his chosen path.

Like I said… I've put a few thousand of their once fired stuff down range without a single misfire. Great customer service too. I haven't had any issues with the ammo, but I've e-mailed them with a few questions and they got back to me usually within a few hours. Their shipping isn't the fastest, but I'm usually buying 500-1000 rds at a time of whatever caliber just to keep it stocked up so it isn't an issue. I'll buy their new stuff if they have it (usually only a few cents per round extra), but to be honest haven't noticed a difference between the new and once fired rds. I've never used anything other than their target stuff, but they sell defense rounds, etc. I don't mean to turn this into a Freedom Munitions advertisement, but if they sell me a great product for a great price and support the Vets with a discount along the way I have no problem talking them up and helping my bros get in on the deal as well.

I bought 1000 rounds of new .223 brass from Freedom Munitions for .36/rd, plus 5% military discount which almost pays for the shipping. They don't always have it available, but good deal if they do for great target ammo. I always check in with them on "patriotic" holidays because they have good deals for military and vets… on Vets day they had free shipping so I ended up getting .223 for about .34/rd with the 5% military discount. They have definitely become my go to company for all my target ammo unless a see a great deal on some Federal or another US brand. They sell their .223 in boxes of 50 cased just like handgun ammo. I stay away from the foreign stuff for the most part if I can.

Take it easy on the kid… for someone with a total of 16 posts on here you sure talk a lot of smack. I have no idea who he is or what his real experience is, but remember that all of this AAD, SOS, box checking queep now hits you the second you walk in the door before you are even mission ready… not to mention that it doesn't matter if you are young LT with shiny new Wings or a crusty old O-4 crew dawg; if you wanted to be a pilot since you were 5 yrs old and Big Blue makes you feel you need to apologize for actually wanting to do your job then it sucks just the same. Give the kid some slack, will ya!