Razor666

Do you all have hiring boards for experienced pilots? Experienced 11Bs to be exact? Thanks!

That is what the Bomber FAM hinted at (he is a good dude unlike the previous one). If you look on the AFPC website for bombers, there is a call out to any MWS who wants to go fly BUFFs to contact him and it seems if you got released on your end, you would go fly the BUFF no problem. I do feel bad for the new bomber studs that just graduated UPT out of 38s that are here and or headed this way since T-1 guys can now fill this billet. Seems like a waste of a potential resource since we are in such a bad fighter crisis and we are sending dudes who are fighter qual'd to a jet that can be flown by anyone, IMO.

From the grumblings in my ops squadrons as a bomber dude, T-1 FAIPS or T-6 FAIPS that tracked T-1s can get assigned bomber aircraft. That will probably be a normal thing for a while as well as the 38 students and 38 FAIPS that get assigned to the bombers. We are hurting manning wise here just as much as the fighter bros (maintenance is hurting worse than everyone else but that is a different can of worms). As for T-1 studs dropping bombers, that dude that dropped a BUFF not too long ago was a high level drug deal (like AFPC level) since he was married to a missile officer up in Minot. I think AFPC is trying to push to get T-1 studs to be able to drop bombers more frequently though. But we all know the clown show that is AFPC so who knows what they are trying to find a "fix" for.

So correct me if I am completely throwing out chaff and flares here as I only went to UPT at a place with 38s only but from what I have been told and discussed in the squadron is that studs that fly T-1s (nowadays at least) usually pick their top choices based off location and lifestyle. That being said, all bomber locations are pretty heinous (Minot, Dyess, Shreveport, Whiteman, etc). While the missions are cool as in you wipe bad guys off the face of the map, you never even land in or see the world really (C17 bros snapchat me drinking wine in Italy on a TDY while I'm sitting in the Deid). Therefore, your top T1 dudes put heavy platforms that are in sweet locations and land at even sweeter locations. Now if this is true and that you give your top studs what they want, then you give the bottom part of T1 guys the bombers (this is what they are doing with UAVs to T1 studs). As Pawnman mentioned before, the results are mixed. Can these bottom graduation dudes in T1 somehow learn to have great hands in these jets and push it up? Possibly. Or is it more likely that they get stuck in a jet they don't want, in a place they don't want, in a mission they don't want and all of this for a guaranteed commitment of ten years. You make pretty bitter people doing that which is dangerous in its own way. You cannot have the latter flying these planes because you need to have an aggressive 38 like attitude to fly through a SAM MEZ knowing that you will get shot at and you will most likely get hit (no one is out maneuvering a SAM at 2.0 G), but need to drop bombs on target on time. This was the problem currently going in my community until recently. We had older pilots that flew the T1 that showed a lackluster performance in these jets. The thinking then was we need to get dudes that we not the bottom of the barrel to revitalize the squadrons especially since we are seeing combat. Hence now why the last 2 years we have been getting T38 studs in the FTU that got bombers as a must assign who were very capable of going to something with a pointy nose.

Sheppard still has the supersonic ride in the syllabus. As others have mentioned that have earned their "mach crush" it is literally watching a needle that goes from .99M to 1.0M. You notice nothing different in the jet. I would like to see afterburner on the new TX though. That extra boost of power has saved many of a student and IP from a seriously terrible landing or emergency low to the ground. Plus if the whole program of flying the T-X is to produce fighter and bomber dudes, all of our fighters have AB. So in my humble opinion, train the way you fight.

Bro, Young dude here compared to these gray beards. I "DID" the whole Air Force thing. Academy grad, ENJJPT grad and all that queep. On paper it looks awesome and those are my quals. Bomber dude who has done the mission. If I could do it all again, I would have gone to the Guard and got picked up to fly the plane I wanted to fly and been in an awesome command that doesn't deal with the active duty bullshit of green dot and queep. Guard/Reserve literally scoffs Active Duty bullshit. My Guard bros at UPT had the time of their lives because they knew no matter how good or bad they did, they were going to fly X aircraft right out of UPT and go to a sweet unit. It is honestly ridiculous now at how terrible the environment is in the active duty Air Force right now and hence you see 99% of pilots punching to get out of the AD and go fly for the Majors (and make twice of what you make as an AD Pilot right off the bat) and don't have to deal with the nonsense. Plus if you go AD it is all luck and timing. You could get a sweet gig or be completely shafted into a plane and location you don't want to be in for 10 years because you can't leave because they are critically manned. I see where these older dudes are coming from though. 20 years ago the Air Force was awesome! It was lead by warriors who trained warrior and was focused getting our mission done. Nowadays you have shoe clerks who feel that they are no longer in the support roll of the dudes down range and get all butthurt with rules and when they are not held in such high esteem as a pilot. IE Chiefs down range yelling at dudes their PT shirt wasn't tucked in or that it was too sweaty. True story, I was there. So BLUF or TLDR. Go to med school (make bank, meet awesome and smart chicks in your career field, live where you want to live and do what you want to do without asking for permission) and when you are done with med school since its easier to do while you are young and single or just young. Then go rush an awesome guard unit and get your adrenaline fix and dream of flying fulfilled there with some of the most experienced warriors in the world.

What are the units that are having a tougher time to keep people in house? Thanks for the no BS answers guys, really appreciate it!

Hey fellas, first off appreciate the answers and help up front. I'm an 11B guy with a couple years left on ADSC and looking to Palace Chase. By the time my ADSC is up (assuming I can't get out earlier) I'll be 33 years old. Is it realistic at that point to try and rush a 11F guard/reserve unit in the hopes of getting picked up or do I need to recage my nugget on some other goal. Also how far out from separation should I start working on getting in with a unit? Should I separate first, get picked up by the majors, then come back and rush? Or rush and simultaneously apply for the majors as well. I'm also coming up on my possible last AD assignment before separation and I was leaning towards T38 IP so I can get back into the cockpit and get my hands warm on something a little more capable than the one that brought me to the dance (so to speak) before I try and rush. Thanks again!

As always, thanks for the info Duck. I'll just keep loving the one I'm with as much as I can until ADSC is up and I can PC to some pointy nose Guard/Reserve unit.

A younger dude here so maybe I could offer my 2 cents on why the big cultural shift for me. In the start of UPT I was stoked to go fly jets and get paid for it and could never understand why the older dudes always said they could not wait to get out. Fast forward to the end of UPT and I am already thinking of my indentured servitude of 10 years (experiencing terrible policy decisions and witnessing the best IPs pulling chocks because they couldn't deal with Big Blue anymore, also terrible Officers IMO getting promoted for kiss assery). But I remain optimistic and think maybe out in the CAF since UPT is AETC (grass is always greener...). Well get out to the CAF and realize things haven't changed that much in the terms of shenanigans in leadership. I have more queep jobs and assignments to do since we don't have the manning and that is more of an emphasis then flying and getting really good at your primary job as a pilot. Combine that with getting kicked in the junk by AFPC handing down some crap non flying gig or flying gig at some dump of a location. Also our FAM telling us (I'm an 11B) that our side of pilots is hurting as well and instead of having bargaining power since we are so few and far between that we will have more work and have less chance of doing some assignment we may want. So instead, we are now going to be stuck at Dyess or Minot for longer than we ever wanted to be there and there is nothing we can do about it. Add on top of that having a Lt Col DO black border patch telling me if he were in my shoes he would get the hell out at 10 and go fly for the airlines. I look for a reason to stay in the Air Force everyday but the Air Force always sends me back more reasons to go. So combine that with airlines paying 200k plus a year in a location that you want to live in, only doing your primary job of flying and not even a full months of work, guys don't have to ask themselves twice if Big Blue is the better gig. Side question. Anyone heard if they are going to open up this crossflow to fighters to the Bomber Bros? Leadership has not mentioned a word of it and I think it is to keep us in the dark a little bit so we all don't abandon post. All of us are 38 quald and I know a ton of people that would take the chance. I have a healthy reality check of the answer being no because Big Blue is hurting in the 11B community as well but anything is possible in this AF as we all know. Thanks again fellas!

On the subject of ENJJPT/Sheppard from a dude that graduated from there and is now there doing the whole flying thing, the comments above are pretty spot on. The place has just turned into a giant political circle J that likes to point out that it's an "international" program and "NATO" based and cares more about how it looks and acts politically among its partners than it actually cares about the training. Hell, the place sweeps up problems underneath the rug all the time to save face! A German Squad CC just got fired on the T-6 side of things after being at the helm for at most four months. The brass said he left because of personal reasons but the middle management has whispered behind the scenes saying the dude got canned for some seriously heinous stuff. On the T-6 side the fighter guys and heavy guys get along pretty well and develop a good atmosphere for the studs and paints a pretty good picture that there is more to the Air Force then being a Fighter/FAIP/Bomber guy. The 38 side is a lot different. Obviously a lot more focused on the Fighter side but I would argue to the point where they definitely put down and make fun of the "herbivores" as being lesser pilots and doing less of the mission. Hell, they even make fun of flying bombers and spec ops! Dudes that are doing the mission as we speak! Now take that attitude as a student and roll that into drop night when you made it to the point of receiving an aircraft assignment from one of the hardest pilot training programs in the world and do not happen to get a fighter or FAIP because as well all know here, luck and timing are everything. That dude now feels a little bit less of themselves because the IPs they talked to and flew with in the past took a dump all over the aircraft that stud dropped. And as for the top brass here.....golly. I'll just let the combat hours and TV talk show host speak for themselves....

I mean AWACS has awesome locations, multi engine, non centerline thrust, and a Boeing type rating. Hello airlines. Sure the flying is 30 bank turns but not the worst thing in the world. What about the BUFF assignment? What do they do now? Again not a bad gig in my opionion. Multi-engine, non centerline thrust, deploy to Guam, tons of flight hours. Hello airlines. Plus with the new bomber supposed to come out, who knows?

What is the follow on for AT-38s? Also does anyone know what class is supposed to be dropping around the end of October at the other bases? I've heard a rumor that with the whole T-6 grounding shenanigans that occurred that the other bases washed back the classes that were suppose to drop in October except for Vance. Thanks for the help.

ENJJPT 15-08 Drop: U.S. Active Duty Only F-16 x 3 F-15E T-38A x 2 C-130 (student requested) B-52 A-10 T-6 FAIP Solid drop for sure.

Let's bring this thread back to its purpose. ENJJPT 15-07 B-52 x 3 F-16 F-16 (Netherlands) C-130 x 2 Netherlands A-10 Guard A-10 T-38 FAIP F-22 x 3 F-16 x 2 CV-22 Tornado x 2 - Italy Tornado - Germany F-15E B-1 EC-130 MC-130 C-130 No drones but there is still a lot more drops and more time to go. We will stayed tuned to the other bases drops.

When students put in their dream sheets at the bottom it says for their assigned IP to mark whether or not they should be Fighter/FAIP qualified. Below that is the same container for their Flt Comm to mark answering the same question. Out of the 100+ sheets I've laid eyes on, only one was ever not recommended for Fighter/FAIP. For the second question easily well over a million dollars. Never met a 2LT millionaire but the Air Force has made other people pay back training for circumstances of when dudes just quit some type of training. Example would be the Academy where guys needed to pay back the roughly 400,000 for that. I know of no dude that has 400,000 laying around unless he's a grey beard.

I signed something that said I'll serve ten years as a rated officer. Not sure if the fine print said something like once you earn your wings or as of right now etc. Definitely signed something though.

I'm just going to tell my students that if it happens to them, just press forward and hope they get some type of cockpit in the future. Grant it, it may not be what they wanted to fly but at least its something that can get their hours up and they can leave the AF after their commitment and fly for the airlines hopefully with the hours they racked up. At least for the most part I keep hearing that dudes eventually got back into a cockpit and were not sentenced for a lifetime/career in the RPA. Keep the good attitude up, grow were you are planted and realize that service before self is a nice way to keep dudes in party lines.

I am not an advocate to the SIE if you get RPA route but since you were around when that clownshow was a thing, any of your bros you know that got RPA direct actually got manned after their first assignment or was it like the stories I hear over as a FAIP that are told to the young studs along the lines of "the guys I know who got RPAs direct got nonvol'd for longer tours and if they did get in cockpits they got B-52s."

Not sure about the policy. The last three studs I saw that SIE (all from the same class mind you), just got reclassed. I just wouldn't be really shocked if somehow the AF figured out a way to make someone pay some type of money back (education/training) for something like that. I mean I for sure know dudes who had to pay back the AF for their school since they quit USAFA early (but that is entirely different from UPT obviously).

We for sure need to get more stories like this out here because the sentiment around the j-lop machine is not this at all and dudes (Maj and Lt Cols) are quoting that they "do not know a dude from the RPA situation that got a fighter/good deal". The only thing is that we are making the big assumption that they get manned after their tour and I for sure hope and pray that they do because that is not fair to those guys. However, I have never heard of a 38 Fighter/FAIP quald dude who got RPAs back in the 09 times getting assigned to a single seat. However, they did get a manned aircraft. Any more legit success stories I can tell my studs would be appreciated because they for sure feel the sky is falling and I'm not educated on the subject enough to tell them its going to be okay.

Well I've seen a few dudes this year DOR and they got reclassed into pretty much what they wanted as non rated careers. The only difference for your above scenario is the obvious fact that the dude is capable of graduating but says I'm not going to eat your shit sandwich and therefore leaving this place verses the guy who looked like he tried his hardest and just couldn't make it. Probably get ed by Big Blue pulling the first stunt and just reclassed pulling the second one. As for the reg, I really don't know. All I remember is when I graduated from good ole' USAFA, I signed an ADSC that said something along the lines of 10 years since I got pilot as an AFSC. Not sure if that writing was saying if once you graduated and earned your wings that was your ADSC.

Moose, if those studs did SIE I would think the chances of Big Blue making them pay them back for their training would be a real reality. It would not be hard for the Air Force to see that a dude is SIEing based off the fact that he got an RPA. I would say they are more likely to try and screw that guy over with making him pay back the money wasted on him as an eye for an eye type of deal. Not saying that I disagree with your point at all. SIE looks like a better plan then getting ed for 10 years but you might be forced to pay a few hundred grand for that decision to SIE is all that I'm saying. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Would you rather be damned for 4 more years and a few hundred thousand dollars or damned for a 10 year commitment and not a few hundred thousand dollars? Thoughts?

So let's play this out based on what we know for the best case scenario. Stud drops RPAs from UPT. Graduates and now has a service commitment of 10 years because of Wings. He goes over to his RPA squadron and does his 3 year tour (best case scenario more likely he gets nonvol'd to do more). He finally gets his manned aircraft assignment (most likely a less than desirable aircraft and not fighter type even if he was T-38 Fighter/FAIP qual'd). He is 3 years behind his peers in that MWS and is probably not upgrading on the Letter of X's in a timely rate because he isn't one of the new young guys. Maybe he finally gets on the Letter of X's for things so he is not completely new and does not look like a giant sack of shit on his Majors board compared to his peers who are IPs in their MWS since they had three more years experience. Our RPA direct out of UPT friend can kiss Weapons School chances or Test Pilot chances out the window. Perhaps maybe he doesn't even have the hours to go over to the airlines after this situation. Now towards more reality and not best case. The RPA direct guy probably does 5 years min in the RPA gig. The Air Force doesn't even guarantee you a manned cockpit but let's say our RPA stud is lucky and gets his ass in some type of seat 5 years later. The rest of the above situation still plays out. Still owes a 10 year commitment. Now how about this....Stud gets RPAs on drop night. Realizes he has not graduated UPT yet and therefore has not incurred his 10 year commitment yet but knows his drop because drop is a month before graduation. If this stud SIE (self induced elimination) he does not owe 10 years now but 5 years (only 3 more after UPT really) and does not have the raw deal of flying drones. Now this guy who SIE can possibly go to an Army or Navy Guard/Reserve unit and get hired by them and sent to their flight school to actually fly. Pretty sure you can do that even if you SIE from the Air Force. (anyone know if that is actually true if you are eligible for a formal flying training with another branch if you SIE from the Air Force?) However if the stud SIE'd that late in the game after drop night, Big Blue would probably make him pay for all the money spent on him for training back since they would probably put 2 and 2 together and see he is probably SIEing because he got drones. Dudes this is no kidding the discussion some older grey beards are having with some of my younger LT studs. IMO, it really does seem like if you are a UPT stud who gets sent to RPAs, you have a death sentence as a military aviator in terms of hours, Letter of X's, promotion opportunities, airline flying compared to your year group peers. Even if you tried to SIE because of the raw drone deal, they would make you pay all the money back for training most likely. Still the chances are pretty low for a stud to get RPAs out of pilot training. I mean, there are at least 600 student pilots minimum at all the bases combined for the current year and they need 80 RPA guys, you guys can do the math behind the statistics of getting the shit sandwich. Even so, that memo posted by the Wing King at XL said that Columbus, Laughlin and Vance are the ones that are looking to drop RPAs and out of the T-1 track as well (no mention of T-38 track). Who knows, we will know more Friday with this next drop and the picture will get clearer then.

Appreciate all the good info brothers. I'll be sure to pass along to my studs here. They are pretty worried about the situation and I feel for them. They are trying to figure out if they can eventually just cross commission and fly for another branch if it came down to it later in the game just so they can get in a cockpit and rack up their hours for future jobs. And or separating from the AF when the time comes then trying to get picked up in some Guard/Reserve unit (fighter unit) and getting sent to IFF and B Course since they are already Fighter/FAIP Qual'd and flew the T-38 over here. Seems pretty valid since most of these guys will be in their late twenties to early thirties if it came down to it and I have current guard dudes going through UPT right now for a unit at like 30 year old LTs. As for how they are picking the RPAs and not necessarily entirely based on "merit" and picking the bottom dudes. Who knows? We are talking about an Air Force that thought a quartile system for picking missile officers from Academy/ROTC was a great idea since they were tired of getting the bottom of the barrel in that AFSC and an Air Force that thinks it's cost effective to send dudes to UPT to fly drones when they can make it an enlisted career field, etc. But I digress and that's not a conversation for here. I however have seen some pretty sketch processes in who gets what drop in UPT when it comes down to Flt Comm ranking and that is not merit based at all so I'm feeling a similar process for RPAs. I'll be sure to post the drop next Friday and let you guys know what the studs who might drop RPAs tell me about what higher ups have "promised" or "told" them about it.