Toro

This thread is going to be locked for a couple reasons. Mainly, it has gotten seriously sidetracked and none of the comments relating to the original subject have come any new conclusions in the past 20-30 posts. In addition, as has been alluded to by this and other posts, there are people throwing in their two cents who know nothing about the subject at hand. I am good friends with somebody who is directly involved with this and I have most of the story direct from the source. It seems that there are a couple people posting who have details on what happened, and their posts are fairly cryptic and non-informative...as they should be. Others are making assumptions based on a situation where they don't know the whole story. I think the original discussion on 'gouge' and the UPT atmosphere that permits it was a great one, but it has stagnated and taken a nose dive. If you want to talk about FAIPs, feel free to start another thread. If you want to talk about who is in the wrong with this situation, wait until the investigation is complete and all the findings are brought forth, then start casting stones.

Actually, I was turned off by the scarf because I was forced to wear it. Like AirGuardian mentioned, we have no practical purpose for wearing it anymore. In addition, I thought it was uncomfortable and a bit aggravating. When I was at Columbus, somebody in the higher ups mandated that everybody wear the scarf with their daily uniform. But, IAW the regs, it had to be removed before flying. So the message was that I had to wear something that served no practical purpose, then remove it before the point at which it initially served its purpose. Hmmm. Didn't mean to offend by saying fighter pilots don't wear them, but in the five years since I left Columbus I haven't seen one fighter pilot who wore a scarf. I'll hang onto my RMO, colored T-shirt, silly songs, immature pilot lingo, and any other tradition with dear life. But the scarf is one I'm willing to let go.

Excellent post, Nose Art Gal. Guys are getting pretty wrapped around the axel with the term gouge. As only a couple people on this thread realize (blkafnav, Shermanator), this isn't about gouge. While there isn't much in that initial AFPN article, it tells you a good deal; 19 students accused, seven cleared of all wrong doing and one instructor was involved. If only one instructor is facing charges for this, it would seem that he went beyond any normal methods of distributing 'gouge' to students. It also ought to tell you that while numerous students were thought to have been involved, quite a few kept their noses clean and were subsequently cleared. There is more to this story. Just wait until the whole thing comes out and it hits the Air Force Times. I don't expect it will be long.

FYI, scarves are and real fighter pilots don't wear them.

Except you don't normally preface initial contact calls with "with a flash." Unless you free-call a controller from VFR flight, they are expecting you and know roughly where you are. They only ask you to ident if there is heavy traffic and/or they don't know your exact position. Except for the fact that "identing" doesn't sound quite as cool as "with a flash", there is neither anything wrong nor funny about the call.

On one of his T-38 solos, a guy in my class got sent around on short final by the RSU and forgot to unkey the mic immediately after his radio call. RSU - "Taurus 69, go-around" My bud - "Taurus 69 on the go.....dammit!"

As a former T-38 IP I can tell you that it does help, and there is no stigma attached to flying or procedural CAP. As NoseArtGal and Beaver mentioned, it just means you're not up to speed with your EPs and GK, and it requires the IPs and USEM (Unit Stan Eval Monitor) to spend more time with you and get you smart. It's obviously something you try to avoid, but as long as you continue to put forth effort, you'll be off quickly and there's no big deal with it. I would argue that the worst one to be on is Military CAP. In general, this is done due to a student's ability to conform to AF policy and show proper customs and courtesies. In his example, I think KoolKat got screwed - that's not the kind of thing guys generally get placed on military CAP for. Usually it's things like having an attitude with instructors, consistently being late for show time, neglecting duties, etc. Unlike flying and procedural CAP, there is a stigma associated with this and there are no benefits to it (unless you consider a poor commander's ranking a benefit).

They don't throw these guys into overly complex missions - nothing where weapons deliveries (real or simulated) would depend on them designating/lasing weapons. Primarily they go into BFM/ACM/ACT sorties where the pilot can run all the sensors with no detriment to the mission. They've got a couple advantages over the average incentive flight guy - basically we can do a little more with them, and because they will be flying more than a few rides, we try to teach them how to run some of the easier systems and do simple things like change radios, set up navaids, etc.

PM me, I'm an FTU instructor there and can help you with any information you need. To answer your questions - - All the Ops-types who will eventually be assigned to one of the fighter squadrons are initially assigned to the 4th Training Squadron on their orders, then transferred (PCAd) over to their respective squadron. This sounds similar to what they'll do to you. - There's plenty of places to live, depending on whether you're married or single, how far you want to commute, and whether you want to rent or buy. Anywhere from on base to Clayton (about 45 minutes north, a little over half way to Raleigh). We have two casual Lts who work in our squadron - one works in the scheduling shop and the other is sort of a gopher lieutenant. It's a great opportunity for a couple reasons; you learn a lot about a fighter squadron (especially as a scheduler), you get included in all our events (they even got named at the last naming ceremony), and you may get to fly. On the rare occasions when we are short of WSOs, these guys get thrown in to fly. I've been here since August and have seen them both fly at least twice. You should get a sponsor who will answer all your questions and help you with your transition, but if you don't have one already, I'd be glad to pick up that responsibility for you.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The only 'tape' is the VTRS, and it's aircrew controlled. The engine recording isn't something that life support can pull (life support doesn't touch anything in the jet unless it is directly related to the egress system or mask and oxygen system), and it's not something you would pull if somebody was accused of 'hot-dogging' unless that led to some sort of safety investigation. [ 11. January 2005, 21:24: Message edited by: Toro ]

Granted, this doesn't have anything to do with airshows, but this is dictated by local regs, it's not an overall AF reg. This is why F-15Es at Seymour have to be 15 miles off shore, but T-38s at Columbus or Laughlin only have to be above an certain altitude (somewhere in the mid-to-high 20s, IIRC).

It would be a pain, but you could keep going back to the front gate and getting a visitors pass. Officers very rarely get room inspections - I never got one as a single Lt in the dorms - that's mostly for airmen. We had four Italians in my UPT class and two of them had their girlfriends living with them.

I haven't seen it, but you can expect that the average Joe will think it's outstanding while the more experienced fighter guy will shake his head at some of the innaccuracies. You'll never get a commercial movie that will 100% accurately portray anything in the military. The preview clips on the IMAX Red Flag film website look great but, for example, anytime you see two of the same aircraft in close formation (in the same shot), it's not accurate. That's done for the camera and viewer - except for coming up initial and going through weather, we never fly that close, and certainly not at low altitude. Now, that being said, I'm sure this is leaps and bounds above Top Gun and all its inaccuracies, and I plan to see the IMAX film.

Even with a clearance, you won't always necessarily have access to classified info that is at your appropriate level. Along with being classified, much info falls into the 'need to know' category. If you don't need to know, you won't see it.

You have academic tests that correspond to whatever classes you're taking at the time, but I think the weekly tests that NoseArtGal is referring to are the Emergency Procedure Quizzes. They're usually 15-20 (mostly) multiple choise questions taken from the various different regulations.

Ideally Red Flag coincides with the AEF cycle; they try to get squadrons to RF a couple months before they deploy. So in a perfect world, you'll go about once a year. Like Hacker said, it could be luck of the draw. My last squadron was getting ready to go when 9-11 happened and put a stop to everything. The next time we got spun up was when the war was about to kick off in Baghdad - CNX #2. When attempt #3 rolled around, I was PCSing and told 'no dice' because it was too close to my PCS date. Red Flag isn't the only game out there (though it's the best) - there are plenty of other exercises that squadrons deploy to (called LFEs - Large Force Exercises). We did these every couple months or so. [ 23. December 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: Toro ]

Well, I think it's probably a little too late for that...

I don't know of any specifics, but I do know that it's possible. While I was at Columbus, there was an IP who had been farmed out by the New Orleans Guard unit.

Those Viper guys just ain't right. I just about jumped out of my chair when I saw 'Freq' Casey - the 8th FW Weapons Officer - that guy was in my UPT class. I'll have to get ahold of him and ask him WTF?

A lot of people still use MWS and RTU, but they're outdated terms. MWS is now MDS (Mission Design Series) so that it can generically be applied to any aircraft (not just weapon systems) and FTU is the replacement term for RTU. A couple others on the admin side since they show up a lot in the other threads- MPF - Military Personnel Flight. The office at your base that will (at their own convenience and schedule permitting) handle issues like orders and ID cards. AFPC - Air Force Personnel Center. Kind of like MPF at the AF-wide level. They handle all assignments and decide things like how many assignments will go to base X and when. DEERS - Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System. The system that registers your family for AF benefits such as TRICARE. TRICARE - AF-sponsored medical service for dependents.

It was command sponsored - I'd never heard of an EML before this thread. I think the letter put her on about the 4th or 5th level of ranking. With the exception of emergency leave, I doubt a dependent traveling on Space A would get bumped up to level 2 - that's the same level of official business travel.

I was under that impression as well, but the website makes it sound otherwise. My wife took Space A travel several times from our base in England back to the states (a little different because she was with me), but she had to get a command-sponsored letter from the commander each time saying she was authorized to travel Space A. The orderly room folks type the letter up, so tell your friend to ask them.

Of course there is - John Travolta and Christian Slater....haven't you ever seen "Broken Arrow"?

Right on. We had to endure that BS at Lakenheath, and the idiocy of it all just blew me away. We were pulling flyers from the schedule for 1700-0000 "Combat Nighthawk" tours so we could go see how the rest of the base functioned at night (chow hall, hospital, cop shack). WTFO? How about pulling some of those dudes over to the Ops Squadron and showing them how we do business? The one program that would have actually been a true "Combat" program was the one he didn't have. I'll do you one better. "Doc" decided he wanted to fly a Strike Eagle about a year back. He didn't want a ride in the pit, he wanted to fly it. And why shouldn't he? Granted, we send guys through a year-long FTU and make them take months of academics and sims before they can climb into the front seat, but by golly he's a general and he can't be bothered with that, so he should be able to take a couple hours of academics and have a instructor in the back with him. I swear, it was like the Emperor's New Clothes - everybody from the IP who was chosen to fly in his pit to the SQ/CC and OG/CC said it was a bad idea, but nobody threw down the bullshit flag to stop it. Can you imagine what would happen if something went wrong? Safety Investigation Board - "WTF was a non-qualified Viper pilot doing in the front seat?" Us - "Uh, well he's a General and he wanted to." SIB - "Really? All of you from the SQ/DO up to the WG/CC are fired and will be replaced by snackos since they seem to have more common sense." Outstanding. Put on a flight suit that's about three sizes too big and makes him look even more like a decrepit old man and you've got a spitting image of Doc.