Toro

What's your situation (what does each of you do)? In a very general sense, I can tell you that the AF will try "their best" to get you close together, but you're likely going to make some sacrifices. I've seen several instances (including a guy in my current squadron) where it worked well and a non-flier spouse followed a flyer with very little delay to the same base. I've also seen many instances where the couple was separated by at least a state. IMHO, the worst thing you could do would be to marry another pilot, as this is the hardest thing for AFPC to work. You can't be in the same squadron (or so I hear), so your options are to either find an MDS that has multiple squadrons at the same base (seen this) or go to seperate MDSs that are stationed in the same place (seen this attempted). Problem is that if you are able do this once, it's often tough to find a second location where this is possible. Strike Eagles are nice in that there are two different bases with more than one squadron (Lakenheath/2 and Seymour/4). I just talked to somebody I knew who married another pilot prior to them getting their assignment. He got vipers, she got C-12s and the best they could do was an Osan/Kunsan assignment. She just found out she's pregnant and worked for about six month to get out of her flying job to be stationed with him and finally made it happened - both to Shaw. You can't be married to another AF pilot and expect to have any sort of normal marriage. [ 26 February 2004, 23:27: Message edited by: Toro ]

Metalhead, you're right on with your reasoning of why many students don't wash out. You wouldn't believe what a logistical nightmare it is to try to get rid of somebody who truly does not belong in the cockpit. As far as your "Girls automatically get back in" statement, I'll concur with that one, too. If anyone doesn't think it's true, I've got specific stories of when it's happened. Yes they are. It's not the approach speed that makes landing the jet difficult, it's the proximity to the aircraft's stall speed. Because of the 38s small wings, it has a very high stall speed - you are in constant buffet throughout the landing pattern and always very close to stalling. Land a little fast and you'll have to go around or honk on the brakes down the runway. Land a little slow and you'll drop out of the sky and pound onto the concrete.

Speaking as an IP from the T-38 side, I can tell you it that it was a little of both. Only one student was eliminated from 38s while I was at Columbus, but many went to Progress and Elimination Check rides. I flew with some of those, and I flew the PC for the guy who eventually washed out. There are generally three problems that get guys in serious trouble in 38s. The biggest is general airmanship and situational awareness. This comes from the fact that the T-38 moves much quicker than the 37, and students need to be able to think two steps ahead of the jet. Guys have trouble figuring out where there are in the area, and determing where they'll be after there next maneuver so they can figure out what the following maneuver will be. SA and Area Orientation are the most commonly hookes items on contact and formation check rides. The next problem is formation maneuvering - close and tactical (6-9K line abreast spacing). The guy in my UPT class as well as the one who washed out at Columbus both had problems with close - just not being able to fly the jet with steady hands when they were in fingertip. Another big problem that was not emphasized enough at UPT when I was an IP and later became an emphasis at IFF was flying tactical. Guys who had wings and were supposed to be learning to fly BFM couldn't do so because they couldn't fly the basic tactical formations that they were supposed to have learned from us. The final thing is landings. The T-38 has a very fast approach and landing speed and supposedly is the hardest jet in the AF to land. I've seen plenty of guys hook daily and check rides for landings, but I've never seen anybody get washed out. I did, however, see a FAIP go to an FEB for not being able to land no-flaps (after he finished PIT, too).

My class of about 40 had three wash out - one in tweets, one in T-1s, and one in T-38s. The T-37 and T-1 washouts were airmanship and aircraft control. The T-38 was inability to fly formation. In three years at Columbus I saw one guy wash out - he had big problems with basic aircraft control and airmanship, but it was formation that finally got him in the end. If you wash out of pilot training, you can do just about anything else in the Air Force, but if you go kicking and screaming to your commanders review board, you're more apt to got something crappy like sitting at the bottom of a missile tube.

Under your primary duty you'll have a generic bullet listing your duties and responsibilities as an aviator. Your additional duties will be listed at the end. In the bullet section you'll have items listed with aviation accomplishments generally first followed by job accomplishments.

Welcome to the Air Force - you're going to be competing against guys in your squadron for the rest of your career. Do you think that when you get to your first Ops Squadron you can relax and do nothing? Try that and I guarantee that you'll end up with an ALO or AETC IP tour next. YGBSM! You've obviously never been in an operational squadron. Smoke/sunshine. I've seen FAIPs coming up on their follow on assignments who couldn't fly their way out of a paper bag. Three extra years in a trainer doesn't mean $hit if you're retarded to begin with. A FAIP who went through IFF with me hooked 3 rides and barely made it through FTU. But like Bergman said, you don't compete against UPT stud - you compete against other FAIPs. [ 14 February 2004, 18:18: Message edited by: Toro ]

No way, you'll get a new one.

Unless they do it differently than active duty (I don't see why they would) your unit won't give you a call sign prior to UPT. You don't get your call sign until you complete your mission qualification in the jet.

Ditto what C17 Driver said for the fighter guys. I know guys in the E model who were previous A-10 and C model flyers (though I don't know of any Viper guys).

I remember the worst standup I ever saw: 99-12 if memory serves me. We went through the entire class on an EP the instructors knew was difficult, but not that tough. Antonius...sit down. Antuna...sit down. Harrison...sit down. Penewit...sit down. Haskin...sit down. If I remember correctly, it was Eaglin who finally pulled through. Sound familiar?

According to AF regs, we're all supposed to fly IFR "to the max extent possible," and only fly VFR when mission essential. For the meat of the fighter missions, we need to fly VFR (BFM, ACM, low fly). But we'll fly VFR as much as possible going to and coming from the MOAs. If it's a nice day out, you're hardly ever going to see a fighter jet on the ILS. [ 08 February 2004, 03:20: Message edited by: Toro ]

T-38s are pretty much the same as T-37s. Only thing to add is that sometimes a dude would get stopped and sat down part way through the EP. He may have screwed it up, he may not have. The IP giving the EP (USEM) would call and somebody else and tell them to pick it up where the first guy left off, or go back and change anything he wanted. That's a little stressful if you're not sure exactly what the dude screwed up - especially if he did everything right and you go back and change something for the worse.

"FNG?" That seems pretty tame. Step into our squadron and you are a "Shit pants" until you are CMR and named. [ 05 February 2004, 14:21: Message edited by: Toro ]

IAW AFI 11-202, a HUD can't be used as a Primary Flight Reference unless unless it has "full-time display of attitude, altitude, and airspeed information and the capability to recognize, confirm, and recover from unusual attitudes." In every Instrument Refresher Course I've had since I started flying the Strike Eagle, they've foot-stomped the fact that our HUD is not certified as a PFR, along with the fact that the Viper is the only HUD that is...that's where that ASS-umption came from. The C-17 HUD lacks a full-time attitude reference, which seems to directly conflict with 11-202 - maybe I'm missing something.

George Costanza from Seinfield. He gets all bent out of shape when somebody makes fun of him in front of a group of people, so he goes home and comes up with that response. When he presents it later on, it just isn't funny any more and nobody cares. [ 31 January 2004, 00:52: Message edited by: Toro ]

WTF? I wasn't telling anybody their HUD wasn't certified, I said I thought the F-16 was the only aircraft with a certified HUD, and that it definitely is the only fighter. As far as the rest of your snips from the MWS discussion - way to show up with guns blazing to a fire that's not even smoldering any more. "The jerk stored called...and they're out of you!"

I'm pretty sure the HUD is only certified (as a primary instrument) in the F-16. I know for a fact that it's the only fighter that has a certified HUD.

Concur with Embry Riddle. I've taken four or five classes in residence and am taking one right now on line. Couple advantages for you- 1) They offer tuition reimbursement. For a $690 course, I only end up paying about $169. In addition to that, there are several scholarships you can apply for to pay for the remaining portion of the bill and books. 2) You've got a while to finish it. Obviously things may get busy while you're running around TDY and trying to get things done. I've had to drop two classes already, but should be done far before their deadline of (I believe) seven years. 3) They're all over the place. They've got offices at just about base on the planet. At my last class, the teacher was talking about organizing a class at Al Udeid for guys deployed to OIF and OEF. 4) Their courses are also offered online. Not my preference, but if you're having trouble attending the courses in residence, or know you're going to be TDY for a while and have access to a computer, this is a good option. [ 19 January 2004, 23:22: Message edited by: Toro ]

Straight from AFI 36-2903, Table 2.6 Eyeglasses and Sunglasses - Free of ornamentation on frames and lenses. Conservative, clear, slightly tinted or photosensitive lenses indoors or in formation. Conservative lenses and frames outdoors (faddish styles and mirrored lenses prohibited). No sunglasses in formation. Not worn around the neck.

You also can't use any sort of pins to bound your hair up. Every female I've seen in UPT (and in fighters) had hair that stopped at about mid-neck. A couple of them had chopped it from a lengthier state (one had it well past her shoulders). They weren't fond of it, but they ended up not minding too much. Realize this is an issue with the helmet; the girl who had it past her shoulders ended up going C-130s and now has it long again.

Flying scores are more important than test scores. Somebody who has seen the layout more recently than me can give specific percentages, but it was something like 40% checkride, 30% daily ride, 20% commanders ranking, 10% test scores.

Because the highest rank scores come from daily and check rides, the people at the top were generally the best pilots and the people at the bottom were...not. That being said, a $hit-hot pilot with a crappy attitude (negative or arrogant) can find himself knocked down from that top spot by flight commander ranking and thrashing for one of the middle spots. Conversely, I've seen guys who really weren't great sticks, but they made it up into the top half because they had great attitude and determination and/or they displayed lots of team attitude and helped out their classmates when they themselves may have been struggling.

Having sat on both sides of this, I can give a little perspective from the instructors. As Ryan said, your flight commander should give you a mid-mass rank where he ranks you as top, middle, or bottom third. I don't believe it's mandatory, though, because we skipped it several times just due to being so busy. On the final ranking, he should give you your actual position in the class (if not, it will go on your 1122 as Ryan said). And like PAB and Bergman mentioned, the top and bottom are usually obvious with the middle being the difficult ones to decide. The rankings usually involve all the instructors in the flight and start with the easy choices - picking the top one or two, then picking the bottom one or two. On occassion, we'd argue for over an hour trying to rank order the last four or five guys. This is where your attittude and 'officership' comes into play. Neal and Bob may be running neck and neck until IP #1 says, "Yeah, well what about when Neal aced his formation checkride and didn't pass the info to any of his buds, and somebody hooked for the same EP." Wham, Neal goes to the bottom. Also, IPs are very aware of things you may not realize - I couldn't stand dudes who brown nosed us, then were dicks to their classmates. Straight to the bottom of the pile. Also, we've ranked people in that middle portion based on what type of aircraft it would get them. If a guy was good enough to graduate, but we really didn't think he belonged in a fighter, we'd rank him so he'd get a bomber.

I've got 1400+ hours since I graduated UPT in '97, but about 1000 of that is T-38 IP time. I've accumulated the 400+ hours of F-15E time since '01. The average will depend on whether you're deployed or not. I talked with some Seymour Johnson guys who we replaced for OIF last year - they had been there since the war kicked off five months earlier and flew 6-9 hour sorties nearly every day. Like Beaver, dudes with just over a year operational in the Strike Eagle had nearly 500 hours. During non-combat ops, I'd say we average around 200 hours a year. That gets pretty difficult with a two seater - no way we can spare 16 bodies for one dude. We'll generally combine it with instructor or some other type of upgrades. [ 10 January 2004, 23:21: Message edited by: Toro ]

It'll depend on what you're flying, your previous experience and other concurrent upgrades. Here's a rough wag at F-15E upgrades where I'm at. MQ (Mission Qualification) - This is your Ops checkout - always the #1 priority of upgrades. There are 10 rides in our syllabus and you need to be through them within 90 days. 2FLUG - You need 300 hours to start (can be waived to 200 if you're a FAIP), which usually corresponds to about 1.5 years into the assignment. There are seven rides which are supposed to be completed in two months. 4 FLUG - The only prerequisite to start this is that you're complete with 2FLUG. Some guys will go straight into it, but most take a break for 6-9 months and gain 2FL experience. Four rides in this program, expected to be done in one month. IPUG - 500 hours and 4FL required to start. Most pilots don't start this upgrade within three years (the average length of an Ops assignment). There are 12 rides in this program and it's expected to be done in three months. No, just like UPT, there is a syllabus for every single upgrade we have that dictates what is done and what items we need to demonstrate proficiency (Demo Pro) on. The only upgrade that has a mandatory time limit is MQ (90 days). For the rest, there is a suggested time limit, but it all depends on which upgrades have priority at the time. If you're upgrading you can usually expect to be scheduled for 1-2 upgrade flights a week. If you're not upgrading, you may be support for an upgrade (red air, for example). With Strike Eagles, you could (in theory, though we don't do it often) have a 4-ship with eight people dedicated to the upgrade of one person. If you're not involved in an upgrade, you'll fly CT (Continuation Training), which is basically where you go out and do something to practice with little to no instructor involvement.