C-130Hoya

Also, provided your class is any good, standing means very little, at least in the top 5. Out of our two 28s, the first went to the top guy and the second went to someone that was probably closer to 10 out of 27. The actual difference between 1 and 10 in our class as far as percentage points went was pretty negligible. Drop nights can be crazy for classes where every one is neck in neck. I know ours was.

What are WSOs required to accomplish during IFF? Are they totally separated from the pilots going through?

...not hating on my job, simply commenting on how the program is structured in Pensacola. How am I hating on my job saying that the WSO training at Pensacola isnt relevant to being a nav on slicks?

To be fair, this is very easy to say for someone that has been in the AF a lot longer than I have. Everyone who went through UCT at Pcola knows how much of an SA black hole it is. Yea, maybe I should have done more research, but how many J-model announcements had been even projected for LRF, Petersen, or Pope? J-models have been on the horizon for quite some time, and considering how slowly the AF moves on everything else, I really didnt expect it to become a problem for at least another PCS. I just hope that the instructors at Pcola figured it out sooner than I did and started discouraging people from putting Hercs on their dream sheets (except to TFI units).

Ah that makes sense, cause I know while I was at little rock they were thinking about adding in a two week course at the beginning. Makes sense to just tack it on at pcola. I don't think it's that necessary, but if the FTUs want it, might as well Yea that's what I meant. Sorry should've qualified that. It's not the EWO or the WSO training that helped that much. What really helped was how we were pretty much co-pilots during the T-1 phase. Things like CRM, being directive with a crew, and time control techniques really paid dividends on the LRF flight line.

What I know is that Randolph guys trying to go from AMC to ACC are being blocked because they arent considered "CSOs". Not really sure why, but that's what's going on right now.

They've been going back and forth on that. The whole reason the entire Nav program moved to NAS was to be a joint training program with the Navy. That has completely fallen apart due to the fact that the Navy isn't as crazy about graduating X students every D days. A lot of FTUs are upset cause CSOs are turning out to be jacks of all trades and masters of none, so they've been thinking about going back to the previous tracked model where only strikers go to NAS, but I don't know if they'll switch back so soon. After all, the career field is only about 2 years old. To be honest, I like being a CSO, and my FTU figured out the benefits of CSOs pretty quickly. I don't know if the EWO community is as happy though.

Hard not to take it as a personal attack when you suggest that I'm in the plane I'm in because I supposedly graduated last in my class, but that's neither here nor there. I AM excited about the AFSOC mission, but that's never been the topic of discussion. To be honest, I wasn't happy with my drop out of Pensacola, but I have loved every minute of the Herc since. The community is fantastic and I'm loving my current base. If I could stay here I would. But I can't, and that's not my choice to make anymore. As such, I'm trying to get to another mission I can really sink my teeth into. Additionally, my family wasn't on board with AFSOC coming out of Pensacola, but a lot has changed since then, and they are fully on board now. I have spoken with all my friends in AFSOC right now, and they are loving the missions and getting along just fine with the rough deployment schedule, which is exactly what I wanted to hear. I feel like I'm getting an early opportunity to broaden my career in the AF because of this J model thing. If after all I've said you think that I'm just being selfish and opportunistic, then that's your business. I feel like this thread was supposed to be about the future of CSOs and has somehow become about my future, as such I give it back to the op: As far as I've seen, the CSO concept is working, and while cross flow between platforms can hardly be called fluid, AFPC is genuinely making a distinction between Randolph grads and NAS grads when coming up with assignments, ESPECIALLY when it comes to AFSOC/strike crossovers.

Wow everyone needs to take it down a notch here. Im not "stipulating" anything. I don't think anyone in the military expects to be able to dictate where he or she will go. If the AF tells me tomorrow that Im going to go to the new U-28 sq being stood up at Cannon, am I really going to refuse? Of course not. Ive been trained by the same military you have--please dont think I have so little officership that Ill shout and stomp till the AF gives me what I want. But just because Im using the appropriate channels (the ADP, my SQCC) to tell the appropriate people (AFPC), what I would PREFER to do with my career, doesnt mean Im spoiled or cant hack it in AFSOC. And btw, there are still people going through the KLRF pipeline that chose the -130 well after I did, so please dont make it seem like I was either forced into the -130 or that I wandered on to it not knowing what was going on. J-models werent a problem until they became a problem, and the instructors at NAS who were my best source of information on the Herc were all over the moon about the H. I love the Herc. I chose to be here. I am sad to have to leave. Just because my job is going away though doesnt mean I sit here and mope and hope the AF puts me somewhere nice. My #1 priority right now is to be the best NAV I can be while I can still fly in this plane. Ive already volunteered for a deployment in September. I have already become very involved in my SQ and the local community. So please, before you feel the need to pass down judgement regarding where I can and cannot hack it, maybe think about the fact that Im just a young guy looking for advice. Squelch the patronizing tone, and help if you can; move on otherwise.

As a 1LT? Don't know about that. Maybe in a few years, but my job on the herc will disappear sooner than that. I wouldn't mind going back to the schoolhouse eventually though. Unlike most people, I actually liked the program.

Base locations shouldnt be the only driver for your decision, but for people with families it doesnt make any sense to completely ignore location either. On my ADP I put MCJs to Mildenhall and AC-130U Nav and FCO to Herbie. U-28 to Herbie as well. Now I know needs of the AF will determine where I will end up, but Ill be damned if I dont use the location dropdowns on my ADP to full effect. Its all AFSOC to Herbie on my ADP. Someone in my unit just got picked up for U-boats so hopefully I will be too in a year to a year and a half. Im pretty sure H-models are going to stop flying here in about a year or so.

My main reason for staying away from the H-model is the possibility of Cannon. I understand that might become a problem with the 28 and MCJ as well, but Cannon would be bad for the family. Dealing with the AFSOC deployment schedule is hard enough, but leaving my significant other in NM thousands of miles from her family and career would be a fairly selfish thing to do. Im focusing on Herbie for now. We loved Pensacola when we were there for Nav school, and we would not mind having to go back.

Thats exactly what I have planned. The commander told me to roll out in the next 12 - 18 mo and Im sitting down and reviewing my ADP with him today. I have AC-130Us, MC-130Js, and U-28s on there. Strike Eagle is a longshot too, but you never know if you dont try. I feel like platforms with CSOs will be a lot more stable for me than platforms with Navs. And while I really like the EWO stuff, I dont really want RJs or any other white jets. We'll see what happens.

There is absolutely nothing planned by AFPC. It really depends on the speed of the transition. If its a slow but steady stream of J-models coming into my unit then I might be stuck here for another 3 or 4 years waiting to fly the last H-model out of here. If its a massive overhaul (some pilots and loads already have J-model class dates) then hopefully the SQ CCs will do something to help us Navs move along. Hopefully the move will be to another platform vs another H-model base. Id rather not spend the rest of my career running from the J-models. We'll see how it all turns out. I also have no idea what this means or who this is....so...

Ive been hearing rumblings that there might be a weight limit on the U-28. Any truth to the rumor? Any help would be appreciated.

Alright, here's the deal. Im a nav on C-130s and as most of you know, we are being edged out by the J-models. The reason behind this is not that the FMS has made the Nav obsolete, but because the C-130 mission has changed. As a nav I feel next to useless on high-level and overwater missions these days. At 250A on the other hand, I feel like a fairly indispensible member of the crew. The mission of the 130s is changing however, and while our original intent was to be able to terrain mask our way out of trouble, flying low in the current AORs only puts us within arms reach of the bad guys. That being said, as a graduate from NAS Pcola, I consider myself a CSO, and as such have a thin but solid foundation in order to switch to weapons systems that still need CSOs (AC-130s, MC-130s, U-28s, F-15Es). I was initially disappointed to hear that Id have to stop being a Nav on the 130--it really is a great plane--but I am excited to see where I get moved next.

Wow everyone needs to relax. If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont. What I do know is that its what I dropped, so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along. I definitely know the truly basic officership stuff you guys keep harping about (have a good attitude? be happy with what I have? No shit!). What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes. Please read the original post before losing your collective minds. Thanks to all those that gave good advice!

Seriously though, I could use some advice on this...

Hey guys! I am going to be starting UNT at Little Rock sometime this year for slicks. I could not be happier and I am super-stoked about the prospect of low levels with NVGs or dropping stone cold killers into dark fields. However, I do not want to stay C-130s throughout my entire career and would like to see other USAF airframes. I loved the WSO portions of my training and Id like to be in the back of an F-15E or a B-1 one day. I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT. Any thoughts on what rules and requirements there are for someone trying to switch their airframes say 2.5-3 years in?