JS

Ha. That's what I say when I get called in - working "for free" 😆

Was that email real? Seems to bad to be real.

Yup, the last 2 posts pretty much sum up the feelings (at least the vocal minority online) of some of the so-called deadzoners who lost their pensions and are firing up a storm against this TA. I think the other 60% of the company who was hired in the past 9 years is going to be OK with the agreement, along with a decent portion of the older guys, so it will pass overwhelmingly. I, personally, am a no voter for the sole reason that they deleted hundreds of "his/him" references in the contract and replaced them with "they/their." That's hundreds of concessions if you ask me, LOL. Kidding.

I would ignore the crap on airlinepilotcentral. I stopped going there for gossip years ago for the same reasons brabus mentions. I would try and take the advice of previous posts and try to get with an airline that will likely have a hub near where you (wife) plans to make a long term domicile. And you are definitely advanced in your thinking if you are analyzing seniority progression and the relative age of the pilot group you want to join. Better progression is about as critical as your commutability/live in base decisions. Low morale is definitely in the eye of the beholder, and a few anecdotal posts on some crap gossip message board doesn't override the scores of AA friends and random AA pilots I have met along the way who say the opposite. Debt, especially corporate debt, is so grossly misunderstood by laymen like us that it is laughable. I could argue these two truths until I am blue in the face: 1) debt is bad and should be reduced 2) debt is good and airlines (and virtually all businesses and households) cannot function without it. Unless the company is really on the verge of bankruptcy, leave debt analysis to the overpaid executive types. I think most of the major airlines these days offer pretty much equal job security.

Yeah, some people just have to "do something" I guess. We had a crew get a Q3/1 on a deployment once. We all asked "what the fuck is that," and it was explained that they were grounded and immediately put back on flying status in the same stroke of the pen so that they could continue flying in the war. Wasn't that egregious of a mistake either, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, I was going to say something similar. I remember going through interview training (Emerald Coast with Aaron) and he said how he doesn't remember ever meeting a mobility pilot who didn't have at least one Q3 on their resume; seems AMC looks at it like some sort of administrative management tool. I got the impression from him that the fighter community was more apt to debrief the shit out of someone as opposed to mark up their flight records with an "administrative" Q3 for something relatively minor, but maybe you can attest to that, Hacker. Either way, the airline is fully expecting a majority of folks walking through the door to have some imperfections. If I were on the interview board, I would be extra leery if someone didn't have even the slightest blemish reported on their record.

I put my failed UPT checkride on my Delta application. They asked and my answer was something short like "drifted a few feet out of position on my formation checkride a few times, so I had to repeat that checkride and an additional training ride. It was actually a good experience and I learned more from the process." I think at the end of the day, they really don't give a crap, especially about UPT checkrides. But I figured better safe than sorry. Also, I don't remember bringing in any "green flight records folder" to my Delta interview 7 years ago. I brought the two page ARMS summary I printed from the AF portal, and perhaps the summary checkride Form 8 sheet.

I think this is good advice, too. The standards are lowering by the day as they rush to fill the company with qualified bodies, and 700/2000 hours along with all the military jazz definitely puts you in the qualified bucket. Besides, as you alluded to before, a lot of airlines don't really give a shit about gobs of hours - they just want to know that you can fly and are good to get along with. 700 hours? 7000 hours? 17000 hours? They all know how to fly, and the airline knows it. Flew with an interview captain a few months ago (DAL). He said the discussions in the hiring rooms are seriously about how the airlineapps/pilotcredentials pool of qualified candidates is simply not big enough to accommodate hiring for the big 6 airlines for more than a year or two if the pool doesn't fill back up pretty quicly. This is why Delta is literally grabbing kids while they are still students at aviation schools like Auburn & MTSU and setting them on a path to employment that early. Bottom line - apply now, you NEVER KNOW what you will get, just like I find out almost every month bidding. I am usually pleasantly surprised. And this is also great advice 👇👇👇👇👇

I'm heavily biased toward Delta for obvious reasons (and have had more than one AA guy tell me that they felt Delta was a better place to work). But I would have to cast my vote for living in domicile vs working for a preferred company. I hear that 1 year is the rule of thumb for the latest to hit the reset button and start over on a new seniority list. But being there in domicile would be worth it, in my opinion.

I agree with the "better to have it" sentiment. I know for a fact that Delta gives you points for quality and quantity of education. I have seen it in writing from both Delta proper and from ALPA, and I have also heard second hand from a pilot who did interviews. The interview pilot guy said that you get more points for more challenging programs and more points from more reputable educational institutions. In other words, the engineering degree probably gets more points than the poly sci degree, and the masters from Vanderbilt probably is worth a few more points than the masters from Toro University International University online. ^^^Delta only. Not sure about other airlines. Also, maybe other airlines look real hard at flight hours, but Delta has put in writing things they look at in their "whole person concept" type framework. Flight hours is usually down at about 3 or 4 on the list of important things they look at, depending on which thing you read. It still amazes me how so many people post on all these websites that they have "4K hours, 2K PIC, what are my chances?" You know, almost everyone has that, and is the guy with 3K hours really 33% more qualified than a guy with 2K hours??? That's why Delta looks at other things like education, type ratings, quality and quantity of flight training programs, other aviation achievements/endeavors like instructor, safety, sim instructor, medals, memberships in aviation organizations, letters of rec, etc. Those all get you points on your application at Delta. For what it's worth, I was hired at the beginning of the 2014 hiring wave at DAL with maybe around 2200 or so hours of flight time. That was on the low end in my new hire class, as there were folks all over the board with hours. But some thing that EVERYONE in my new hire class had was a lot of "extras." Regional airline + military, multiple military IQ programs, demo pilots, Air Force 2 pilot, line check airmen, CRM instructors, sim instructors, multiple type ratings, etc. I really don't think anyone got hired just based on their flight hours, because I personally knew of at least a dozen people who had waaaaay more flight hours than I and never got called.

Few years ago at a staff job....an Army guy was telling me that an AF officer was complaining that he was not formally trained in "planning." The Army guys' take was that every graduate of any commissioned officer program is certified in planning and leadership. Something to think about.

Yeah, I agree that hitting the lotto and having the big 3 all in the same city is totally ideal, but definitely easier said than done. Who wants to live right in NYC, Detroit, or Atlanta anyway (kidding if you are from there). But I try to do my best. Currently 2 hours from the airport, 4 hours from the unit (working on getting into a closer unit), and in town with most family/friends. It's like trying to maximize a math equation with 3 variables, and aside from looking for a closer Guard unit, there's not much I can do as far as moving without taking a QOL loss in some other way. But if you can maximize at least one or two parameters (like living in domicile, or close), than at least do what you can.

I thought it was a decent program, then again, I'm kind of book nerdy like that and enjoy discussing war and politics with other smart people. I went in 2015 before we had our contract and while I was on first-year pay working weekends and holidays. It was more than a little bump in both pay and QOL to go to ACSC vs endure first 1 and year 1.5 pay and seniority for me. Also, it helped that i lived somewhat locally to Montgomery and didn't have to move the family the family there. Now, I would not even contemplate war college or anything long like that because it would definitely be a cut in pay and QOL at this point. But ACSC worked for me at the time.

Really good, comprehensive summary. I have heard bits and pieces of what you said above, but that's a great report. I have had more than one jumpseater shoot the shit with me about the above issues, and yes, it depends on the contract, relative movement, etc. Seems the SW guys (and cargo FedEx/UPS) guys are real happy with their lives and their company. I had a few United guys complement Delta on how well Delta actually wants to run an airline. So, yeah, I personally would prioritize if the company had a base near home (the wife's home, that is). Non-commuting is a life changer. 2nd, I would try for an "old" company with the quickest retirements coming - AA, then United. Third I would look at some of the other things like pay, QOL, etc.

I got selected for ACSC in res and took off for that only after about 8 months out of training at DAL. I got a call from the chief pilot congratulating me on selection for command and staff and how it was a big deal to be going to such a prestigious school. Got back, requaled, finished probation and haven't looked back (nor gotten any other calls or dirty looks about taking leave during my first year).