Hacker

That's the best words said *yet* about this issue. I have been previously accused of UCMJ violations, and I was basically immediately declared guilty by everyone (leadership, mostly) just by being *accused*. I can tell you firsthand what a miserable feeling that is, especially when you legitimately *are* innocent. For me, I had my day, and cleared my name. Let Brimer have his day, too.

The accusation was never made that he wasn't a skilled aviator or instructor. He may have been, I don't know. Unfortunately, that has no bearing on the actions he is being accused of. The issue, as I understand it, had to do with his conduct regarding test material and his motives for distributing that material selectively to students. There is actually more to the story that people are talking about, too, and I'm surprised that hasn't been brought to light (although it appears nothing illegal transpired in that realm). Judging from what I see from many Tweet FAIPs that go through IFF, I think he had a skewed view of what "cooperate and graduate" and "if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin'" is supposed to mean. It certainly does not mean to act how the IP and students acted in this scenario. Unfortunately, the students in UPT have to look to the IPs as mentors for guidance on things like this. Since they don't have any experience in this area, they have to trust that when an IP says something is 'okay' that it really is. In this case, it wasn't. So, IMHO, we had an IP with some poor judgment and a group of students who had some really poor mentorship. Back on the original topic of HerkBum's post, I have seen many pilots who are very skilled and knowledgable in the airplane have some appallingly poor judgement while on the ground.

Anyone who washes out of IFF or FTU must go before a Flying Evaluation Board (FEB). The purpose of the FEB is to answer the question "is this person fit for aviation service?" If the answer is 'no', then the person can lose their wings or keep their wings but never fly again. If the answer is 'yes' then the FEB can recommend a course of action for the individual -- either to be re-instated into the training program which they washed out of, or to be sent to some other rated flying job. What *usually* happens is the Wing CC is able to offer a waiver to the FEB, and that waiver essentially says "we'll spare you the risk of going to an FEB, and we're sending you to some kind of non-fighter aircraft." Most guys end up taking the waiver, and from IFF most guys go to BUFFs or BONEs. The force shaping initiatives only apply to personnel who wash out of or quit *initial* technical training (in a pilot's case, SUPT). By the time a pilot gets to IFF or FTU, the Air Force has all ready sunk a significant investment into that pilot and would prefer to keep him/her in *some* kind of cockpit so long as the FEB finds them to be a safe aviator.

This is nothing new... Recall this piece, written by a USAF fighter pilot who had recently returned from an exchange tour. He posted it on Col Hackworth's website circa '99 while he was in ACSC, and relates the situation regarding medals during ALLIED FORCE:

No...they pushed about 40 miles north from one of the north tanker tracks (Dog North?) and close to the Baghdad Super MEZ to support fighters that were working the F-18 shootdown near Karbala. As far as I know, nobody else involved in that operation (two guys in my old squadron were the initial OSCs for that search...) were awarded *anything*. That's okay...at least they're not eating as much crow as the B-1 crew that were awarded DFCs for "killing Saddam" on a TST tasking. One of the guys who was on that crew apparently was awarded his DFC while flying T-6s at Moody (and after Saddam was found alive-and-well). Reportedly the Squadron Commanders briefed everyone to not laugh when the citation was read!

No, the nametags really are that big at Lakenheath, and her name really is that long...

As RAMSTY mentioned, qualified females have applied on the bast two boards. Two made it to the finals last year and two made it this year.

Well, I am not gonna go that far by a long shot. I'm not trying to heap on some God-like praise of her skills by my comment, just note that she was a better flight lead and IP than many of the other IPs in the squadron. Not the best...just better than some of them. Every pilot I hear talk about her making it on the team automatically starts implying that it was strictly because of her gender. I haven't heard one pilot in the discussion consider the possibility that she got there on merit. I merely wanted to relate that, in my experience, she was a legitimately good fighter pilot and didn't make it to the Team due to some kind of gender quota or batting her eyes and shaking her stuff in the interview. On top of that, she's a cool one to have in the bar and can out-drink, out-curse, and out-sexually-harass the vast majority of fighter pilots I know. I'm interested to see how she tempers those "skills" now that she is a recruiting tool (no STS required there...).

The discussion on that forum reminds me of the opening slide that a UPT buddy of mine (now a F-15C IP at Tyndall) used on his job brief at SOS:

I flew with her in the 336th at SJAFB and I can assure you she's just as qualified as a fighter pilot than any of the other guys on the T-clones. She was a better 4FL/IP than most of the guys in the squadron. I don't think everyone is constantly looking at their AFORMS printouts and yardsticking their experience against what it takes to apply to the Thunderbirds. Hell, I don't know the min requirement to get on the team, but it's only because I really don't care and have never looked into it. [ 07. July 2005, 17:14: Message edited by: Hacker ]

A little thread hijack... Back around '02 I was out at Nellis for WIC support, and the Cocks were flying red air for the F-15E division. For some reason on this particular day, my 2-ship was tasked to tag along with the red air 4-ship to go against the WUGs. They used the callsign "C0ck"...and gave my 2-ship of F-15Es the callsign "Beaver"!! The call to tower that "C0ck MARSA Beaver" was #1 for takeoff was funny enough, but on the Highway Departure, as we passed Indian Springs, we checked in with Range Control as "C0ck and Beaver"! The controller paused a sec, and when he keyed the mic you could hear that he was laughing... Controller: "Say again callsign for range entry??" C0CK 01: "That's <extra enunciation> C0CK and BEAVER for the XXXX range time." Controller: <laughing even harder> "Copy C0CK and BEAVER....heh, cleared scheduled, cleared tactical!"

All right guys, calm it down a little bit. We're getting wrapped up in some minor terminology issues here that, obviously, don't make sense. The problem is, boys, an airplane does not get a RWR indication for a surface-to-surface anything. If it was a SCUD, a Seersucker, a FROG, an ABABIL-100, or BM-21, any airplane out there would have had zero indications outside of the visual acquisition of the smoke trail at launch. These weapons are not radar-guided, so they would not have some kind of radar pointed at an airplane to aim them prior to launch. The other problem is that outside of the BM-21 rockets I don't know of any S-S missiles being used against aircraft over in Iraq. So are we really talking about that...or was FB311 actually trying to describe a ballistic SAM launch, which happened a sh*tload of times in Iraq because the SAM operators were scared of the HARM. EDITORIAL COMMENT: Thanks, Weasel Dudes!! So...to translate the post -- there was a ballistic SAM launch at the 135 and 130, they got no RWR warning, it flew out in front of them, and they flew through the smoke trail after the missile passed. The boomer saw the launch and was scared because the guys up in the front office did not maneuver. The 135 co-pilot had all the SA while the pilot was scared and whizzing his trousers. The grizzled Gunship crew laughed about it.

10K over Karbala on the 2nd week of OIF when I was shot at by two ROLANDs. Both of them detonated less than 100 feet behind my tails. There's not enough $ in the world to make me go back to that place/time again -- EVER.

Wearing the nametag on the shoulder comes primarily from wear of a loaded survival vest, although you'll have F-15C and Viper guys tell you it's because of the COMBAT EDGE vest. Guys were doing that long before the counterpressure vest came along, though. The reality is, they're both good reasons -- the name can't be read under either item of gear, and also can get caught up under that stuff.

Looks like you *have* learned something in the mighty Smurf! There's still a long way to go after OB-4 solo, but looks like you've got the right sight picture, so good luck. Let's hear an update when it's time for DB-4. For what it's worth...you won't "smell the cordite" when you shoot the gun in real life (unless you're going to a Hog). As a matter of fact, the actual gun shooting is pretty anti-climactic -- it's the part where the bullets impact which is really cool.

Wait until your first Phase I or Phase II ORE/ORI...then it will allllllll make sense! The short story is that they're simulating generating sorties while in a chem/bio attack environment. Pilots will wear the regular helmet with the mask up and visor down to simulate wearing the the Aircrew Chemical Defense Ensemble, which is basically a complicated gas mask you can fly with. It's easy to damage the real thing by wearing it in an exercise, and because the field of view is pretty poor through the eyepieces, it's safer to fly during an exercise with it simulated. I don't think he's going to go fly with the flak vest on...it's likely just there while he's on the ground prior to getting in the jet and going. [ 07. June 2005, 20:02: Message edited by: Hacker ]

I was told yes by the LS techs at CBM - even the clear visors.

Gotta love those in the cockpit shots showing a dude's hands maneuvering the jet, yet there are OFF flags on the instruments. [ 02. June 2005, 01:09: Message edited by: Hacker ]

Rock Ridge...nice to know that guys back in The Storm had a little sense of humor when they named the bullseye. If only they had named the Ocean Parkway procedures in OIF the 'William J. LaPetomane Thru-Way'. "Somebody's gonna have to go back and get a sh*t-load of dimes!"

The kid's name was Todd Jarret Banker, and I think he climbed back under a rock once Sean Long "outed" him to the guys at Mountain Home. You're right, his website was entertaining, but also recognizable as a load of crap to people who knew any better. The worst part was that he put guys' actual names from the 391st who were on an OSW deployment out there on the 'net. He was like his own little Bold Tigers intel gathering network.

RaptorKiller has a good story there about beating up his WSO with some maneuvers. Gotta love when you can put the F-15E into a "9.2G bank" that put the 'pitter to sleep. That's a new one on me. Toro what are you teaching the kids at Shady J these days?! Seriously, if a guy did that stuff in real life he'd be getting his a$$ reamed in the Ops O's office and getting busted down to wingman or grounded if he was a wingman all ready. Stories like this are funny to people who aren't in the business, and instantly recognizable as BS to people who *are* in the biz!

It was an F-15E versus a Hind - hit it with a GBU-10. It actually wasn't intentionally an air-to-air kill; they dropped the bomb with the '24 on the ground and while the bomb was in flight the Hind took off. The WSO just kept the laser spot on it until the bomb impacted, which just happened to be while the helo was in flight. According to the SOF guys on the ground who watched the whole thing happen, the helo vaporized "like in a James Bond movie". The WSO who lased the bomb was my first F-15E Squadron Commander and put up with us newbies constantly asking him to tell the story. As an aside, I've seen the type of helo reported both on the internet and in books as anything from a Hip to an MD-500. Having talked to both guys who were there -- Rhino and Chewie -- they say it was a Hind. The "official" kill went on the books in 2002 (10 years after the fact!!) as a Hind. Out of curiosity (and if you can say so on the internet) how do you know if you're being lased? Realize that depending on what kind of LGB is headed your way, you may only get 8-10 seconds of warning even if you can detect the laser spot on you. Even if you move, the guy lasing the bomb in can follow you and guide it all the way to impact (unless you can get more than a mile or two away in 10 seconds). I don't think you'd find any fighter outside of a Hog staying low to fight a helo. Personally, I'd stay high, where you can't get to me (as you said) and reach out and touch you with a heater, LGB, or (if I was feeling really sporting) a strafe pass. I would think that if there were a fighter that wanted to get down in the weeds to tango with ya, you'd at least have a chance of getting a snap shot at him with your gun, or popping a heater off at him (if you have some -- not sure what the standard Longbow loadout is).

The "Shockwave" saga from over at studentpilot.net back about 5 years or so is one of my favorites. I like the Princess Diaries one, mostly because I was deployed to Al Udeid flying OIF sorties while Toro was bringing it to peoples' attention. I was simultaneously amused and pissed off at the situation.

Probably an accurate assessment of the scenario. Remember, though, that at least one fighter has an LGB-versus-helo kill, so be careful of where you decide to "hide". Of course, you could also just wait for the Viper to bingo out or flame out, and then you'd be okay.

Don't believe everything you see. As Toro can tell you, nobody is going through the B-Course with their sights set on getting any awards. The only award that students want is graduating and getting on to an operational unit in their fighter. I haven't watched the whole series, but I saw the episodes that were broadcast, and I work with one of the guys featured in the show. I can assure you that they were not "competing" for a Top Gun trophy while in their B-Course. That is something made up by the show's producers to create some sort of excitement for viewers of the show.