Chuck17

Sorry, where I come from DWI means Driving While Intoxicated, which is also now called DUI. DWI in OK means Driving While Impaired. I didn't recognize the difference. My bad. Chuck

I guess there's more to the story then... Because this seems like a no-brainer as described. Anyone for the assist? Chuck

This is terrible stuff. Now reported as a BOne strike on Foxnews - still searching for that in print from a reputable source... Chuck

Thanks nsplayr - Up to you guys to post and make it worth while - I know there is plenty in the "What's wrong with the AF" Thread too - looking for specific inputs on the "why" from the folks headed out. Cheers! Chuck

Lotta' that going around... You have my sympathy, and my congratulations, brother. Chuck

Chim - I hear you, and I'm one of the first to say thanks for what you've done, what you've endured. Let me put this another way, and show you why I'm asking for something like this: few vehicles existed to collect this kinda data when the same thing happened in 2006. Maybe no one really cared... I'm an amateur historian, and I constantly run into interview subjects who thought that their story was not worth telling, that nothing could be gleaned from their experience, or that their experience was so common - why bother? (Particularly the WWII generation). I also find myself constantly asking "why" something happened, with no primary sources to consult... So, instead of assuming that everyone knows what is wrong (I do), or focusing on how many people have congratulated you vs. asked why you were leaving, maybe consider that your leaving is in itself a monumental occasion, or at the very least part of one. Many voices are louder than one, even if they say the same thing. My response to your quip about knowing what is wrong is, "Yeah, no shit. And nothing will change or get better..." At the very least if you tell people what is wrong, why you left, there is some documentation of it, other than an approved VSP application message on a faceless message board. Or, ignore the idea altogether - I have a thick enough skin, it won't bother me. But don't engage, say "people know what is wrong" and thus say everything and nothing at the same time. A simple "Fuck it, I'm out" would suffice. Chuck

Fellas - thoughts: A lot of you are leaving - a lot of you are IPs and highly qualified for leadership or other positions of significance in the company.... We all know that Sr. Leadership gets fed certain amounts of info, or reads info posted here. It's a way to get the pulse... I'd suggest starting a thread with the intent of stating, in plain English, your numbered reasons for wanting to voluntarily leave the force. Do not let it get out of control. Do not stoop to a ritual bitch-fest. Keep the snark and sarcasm to a minimum. Keep your egos in check and write calmly for the rest of us(them) to see. Maybe your true message (vote with your feet) can be heard by someone who will someday make a difference. I'd like to talk to each of you, but there is more to be gained from the group as a mosaic. Please consider the above. Cheers! Chuck

Pure speculation on my part. As far a CHS not losing a sq - believe it when I see it. But if your leadership wants even less people to do the same amount of work, sweet. Chuck

No - this is much, much worse. Still, I am happy for the folks headed out - getting what you want in life is important. And timing is everything... Chuck Edit: For a point of clarification: this will be worse in the C-17 community, who will have now endured two force reductions which have decimated the IP ranks since its inception, one in 2006, now one in 2014 (and a minor one in 1999). Though years apart, the cumulative effects of starting a community between 1994-1999, the outflow of IPs in 1999, constant mobility operations without any letup between 2001-2006, the VSP debacle of 2006, the expansion of the community 2006-2010, its organ-donor relationship with the RPA community, and now its inevitable retraction (CHS and TCM will each lose a squadron - sorry Pathfinders and Food Lions), and the 2014 VSP have taken quite the toll on the active duty force - not sustainable. Training is down, experience is down, morale is down. Picking up the pieces will not be easy given the compound interest of the problem at hand. Fly safe dudes, watch your asses.

This. Fellas, I work with the army everyday. I have two former HRC (Human Resources Command) Branch Managers in my working group - and have received the full brief on their ORB more than once. The grass is not greener. In fact it is much much worse IMHO. They play even more ridiculous games with their reports than we do, and the ONLY thing that matters to their boards is the Above Center of Mass score from the senior rater. Dudes I know it can be frustrating. It once was for the army too - and they went full retard in the other direction to fix it - making it worse. You know what the guys in my staff group worry about? Their full length official photo that accompanies their ORB - are their medals straight, does their face look fat, do they have a five o'clock shadow, are their foreign jump wings displayed correctly. THAT is what you're wishing for...? No thanks. Queep is queep. Fight the fight. Notch the real threats, not the decoys. Chuck

Speak for yourself there junior... Some of us actually know the score of the ball game. As for the rest of your post, I agree. It's just that no one is doing that with RPAs now, or plans to - but sure, it's possible. It's just kinda hard to "change airpower" when the budget calls for the retirement of the majority of the Predator fleet, fewer CAPs, and limited new acquisitions of other legacy systems. Do you just run around quoting former AF officers in an attempt to convince people you know what you're talking about? It's a shit TTP. It makes you looks like a goofus to quote the guy who sold the AF down the Joint river to get every BCT commander their very own Predator feed... You know who knows zip about what kind or how much ISR they "need"? The Army. Trust me bro, I live it everyday. AGAIN, I agree with you for the most part - we ARE making a commitment, we ARE integrating RPAs, they ARE capable of growth... Hell I want Reapers and Preds out there doing their thing when I have to go downrange... Everyone does. BUT WE ARE NOT CHANGING AIRPOWER (remember, that's what this entire conversation is all about). Chuck

Depends... I get why commanders make patches their exec, but it has more to do with the commanders lack of confidence in the general crew force, and desire to push those dudes out front, than anything else. Here's a dude who wears a patch that (arguably) states there is a better than average chance they won't screw something up when put in charge of it. It's the same for the SAPR program. I truly understand the logic - it's hot button right now. And I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't get the same opportunity. But hey if you want to get your balls kicked in for six months straight and then walk away from everything you've learned in order to get upwardly mobile, more power to ya. It's better to rule in hell than serve in heaven, for some.... Just don't come begging when I'm building the plan or making up the lineup cards for night one, and your name is conspicuously absent. Chuck

That's a good use for a patch, hadn't heard that one before... I've heard of patches getting ejected from their communities, but that seems like a waste. Chuck Edit: autocorrect

Champ, I agree with your sentiment, and far be it from me to defend the mgmt at 18AF, but I am 90% sure this is a boy-wonder wing commander requirement, and not coming down from on high... Think the wing cc is gonna roll in just anyone to sit for a spell with HIS boss and possibly make him look a fool? No. Hence the screen. And the subsequent garbage in - garbage out dynamic of the whole thing. This is a wing commander problem, not at 18AF problem. Knowing the current command climate, this should surprise no one. Now, if the 18AF expects honest feedback from the general population he has to go to the source, not the sources supervisors or chain of command. (Get the hooks out of your ass, do some battlefield circulation and pull aside a random group of captains - ala Gen Welsh). The fact that DCO is being used to touch as many people from afar as possible (like the new money saving version of "High Flight") should tell you how "important" this is to leadership - as in, it ain't. It's all show. It briefs well. Take note fellas... One day you are going to be leading people. Decide now what your style and legacy will be, and find good and bad examples to pull from. Just remember, perception is reality. Chuck Edit: follow up - also take note of how this "tasker" was pushed down - via the exec chains, circumventing the squadron commanders authority, though they would ultimately be able to nominate dudes up. No decentralized execution. No empowerment. No trust. No "send me your three strongest dudes to come learn a thing or two about leadership and work in some focus groups for a few days." No, instead we get "send up names, OPRs and PT scores so we can screen them and then the wing commander will decide who is going to participate." If the wing is this far in your chili, maybe you don't need squadron commanders, let alone a Group commanders... Small example, but I think it says a lot. Cheers

Oh you mean the UAV commander thought that his UAV dudes were breaking new ground and leading the fight? There's a shock. Don't make me repost because you refuse to address a single issue thus far raised... This is about NON PERMISSIVE EMPLOYMENT, in which UAVs have yet to prove themselves. Show me. Until then, I will take Col Tart and every other UAV zealot with a grain of salt. Just like the rest of the AF does... As previously stated, relevant and important - absolutely, no argument. "Changing air power" as you previously stated - absolutely not. Chuck Edit: spelling.

Didn't know anything about this guy until I checked his bio. Humility is an underestimated and misunderstood art. Gentlemen, take note: Nobody cares if you commanded the squadron or wing that won x or y award. That's PRF fodder, not bio bullets. Don't take anything away from your people or their effort. Ever. Technique only. Chuck Edit: spelling, call out

Don't ask one single squadron, sq/cc, or airmen "why" they're doing something. It puts them on the defensive, and if it involves tried and true processes that work, it makes the senior leader look like an ass. Ask "how". "How" empowers people to take ownership or opine on whatever process or procedure you're dealing with. You'll get honesty. It fosters pride in ownership, and it makes people think you have a genuine interest, even if that's not the case. THEN you can get to the "why", or making changes... Too many boy-wonder, school grad O-6's have been reading too many books about "starting with why" and think that those lessons universally apply to people in the real world. KIO. Start with "how" - you'd be amazed how receptive people are to your follow-up questions when you start off by empowering them. Chuck

Dudes I hear ya. Especially the DEERS comment Sputnik. I agree. You've all been in the AF long enough, you know what this is... It's a self accomplishing audit. We all know how staffs work, we see it daily: Pass as much work down to the wings as possible. Demand immediate accomplishment of said work so all in the wing have to jump through their asses to comply. This one has teeth because there's money involved. But it should be no surprise. Sportbitching authorized... Cheers, Chuck

The AF is behind the times - other services have been doing this for a while now. And believe it or not the army caught people with fakes, making money for being married, having kids, etc. This isn't much of a shock that we are playing catch up. Chuck

I heart this post. Chuck

I love the internet. See above for a good reason not to lead via email. Chuck

Concur. Add 16 yo Lagavulin for the peaty fans. 18 yo Glen Livet for the mild. Both under a hundred bucks - you won't go wrong with either. Chuck

Copy possible troll. But I can't resist. How? How are they "changing air power?" Because that is neither what the AF is saying, nor what the advanced schools are teaching. SAMS, SAASS, SAWS, AWC, etc. They're surely changing the character of counterinsurgency operations. That's a niche. I wholeheartedly agree that the contribution of airpower in the more-prevalent lower levels of war is greatly enhanced by their emergence, but to say they're changing air power, or the inevitable corollary that they're changing "the nature of war" or some other semantics is a farce. Words have meanings. RPAs are not (yet) survivable, they're not well armed, they're not able to secure air superiority or execute deep strike or strategic attack - i.e. the essential roles/capabilities of air power. Major combat operations = RPAs are missile bait. Again, could be a good/useful thing. They may eventually get there, once the technology catches up, but we have a long way to go. Saying they're changing air power is a bridge too far. Another example - by the same argument, strategic bombers/jets/satellites "changed air power" when they emerged. All they did was enhance already existing missions. Bigger, faster, higher, farther. I presume the same will prove true for the RPA. But air power won't "change". Chuck

Just so it's still out there in circulation, and so everyone takes the AAD requirement for exactly what it's worth... https://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/2011/2011-4/2011_4_07_switzer.pdf From the article, I agree - that it's little more than a demonstration of commitment, a signal... But I'm watching the Army system everyday, and it ain't all it's cracked up to be by the author either. In the grander scheme, I think Welsh is on track with his new policy, and oh by the way, is paving the way for the elimination of TA for officers, for what it's worth. Judge for yourselves if that's good or bad... He needs to give it teeth and sticking power, or we are living another Jumper-Mosley repeat performance - don't get fooled twice. Don't fight the rules gents, fight the fight. Chuck Edited for fat fingers on a iPad...

Shack. Don't be using your logic here bro. It takes away the sport bitching! Chuck