LJDRVR

Thanks for the response Fury. The type of monitored approach I was referring to is when one pilot is responsible for the airplane on instruments all the way down to minimums. They remain heads down in the instrument environment. The PM is actually the guy who lands the airplane. It makes the standard transition from gauges to visual a little bit easier and increases your chance for a successful approach.

Hey Folks, I was watching a youtube video of a KC-135 shooting a low-vis approach into Mildenhall. The video terminates with the AC commanding and the CO performing a missed approach procedure, which got me wondering: Are there any airframes out there where crews utilize monitored approaches? I was just curious. I never did em' until I ended up at the airlines, we use them for all approaches of a mile or less visibility. At any rate, I'm writing an article for the IFR newsletter and need to begin from a "know your audience" standpoint. So, Who does them? Mandatory or optional? If optional, are there any prohibitions against a crew performing one? General thoughts and feelings are welcome. I'll hit this from both an operational and historical standpoint, covering both the civil and military side of things. (There was a lot of bleed-through both ways in the early years.) Thanks! LJDRVR

There's a real dearth of high quality accident graphics available for CRM facilitators. I'm collaborating with a flightsim hobbyist who works at Air Canada. Our first project is a set of slides on Tennerife. I'll drop you a line if they turn out OK - you're welcome to them.

My Grandpa was in the Navy right after WWI My Dad served in the Army National Guard as an NCO Both my Uncles were active duty Marine Corps grunts Another uncle was in the Navy My Brother was a grunt in the Marine Corps Reserve I spent nine years on active duty with the AF as an NCO. Then did the shoe clerk to airline pilot track.

Here's my take: First off, she's a lying POS and deserves to spend time behind bars for the crap she pulled. She makes Kelly Flinn look like Joan of Arc. Regarding the marathoning, being 100% disabled from PTSD does not mean that type of activity is impossible. Lots of people with debilitating depression find that long-distance sports such as marathoning and triathlons actually help them cope with their disease as much as the drugs and counseling do. I fly with quite a few airline pilots who exaggerated the hell out of every ache and pain they ever had to increase their disability. Here's the difference: I have no problem with those folks doing it. Pulling G's over a long career will trash your neck and back, you should get some help. Hell, I should of got some for my trashed feet after four years of marching around DC in triple-sole coraframs. What she did though, is illegal, conduct unbecoming, disgusting and deserving of a federal conviction and a courts martial. Instead of being angered she's out there running marathons, we should be angered that she's still wearing a uniform other than a prison jumpsuit. Rot in hell, Jill Metzger.

STS

Yet another career cut needlessly short by an attraction to the forbidden enlisted poontang. Fellas, there's plenty of it elsewhere!

This is going to be quickly merged with the book thread, but for what it's worth: Contrails over the Mojave The Golden Age of Jet Flight Testing at Edwards Air Force Base By George Marrett The author is a 1964 graduate of AFFTC, after graduation he flew four years of fighter test, followed by a SEA assignement flying Spads out of NKP. He does a great job of putting you in the cockpit. Of note are his descriptions of pulling nuke alert at Hamilton AFB in F-101's during the Cuban missle crisis. Amazing stuff.

I know. I'm not advocating or suggesting civilians adopting stand-ups as a training regimen. What it is, is a way to demonstrate the disciplined approach to airmanship that certain individuals and flying organizations take. It is meant to educate and inspire folks to get in their dash-one equivalent and do a little bit of head work outside the cockpit. Awesome! Perhaps from an angle that shows the IP off to the side but focuses on the studs? I'll leave it up to your good judgment. I'm not joking about the Cub. If you can swing footage of just a single stand up, we'll go do some low and slow! (See avatar.)

Close....so very close. Almost what I'm looking for, just need one without the humor. What I'm after here is some inspiration. For GA folks. it's the realization that there's a lot more to flying their airplane than they think. While most private pilot have read the "Engine Fire - In Flight" checklist during the course of training, they and their CFI's don't realize this checklist has boldface items - steps they must accomplish immediately from rote memory if they hope to survive. Seeing stand-up allows them to realize they are playing for keeps and that just a passing familiarity with their airplanes especially as little as they fly, can and will kill them in the right situation. For the owner-pilots, it's a bit of shame. The knowledge that a twenty two year old kid knows his or her airframe better than the successful business person with a lifetime of experience and well in excess of a thousand hours of flying time does. The one's I get are usually in the process of purchasing their jet. Simuflite or Flight Safety will beat the boldface into them, but seeing what it is and what it can do for them is a motivating experience. I don't want rooms full of civilian pilots actually trying to this, they're told as much. What I'm after is for them to see some professional airmaship displayed in a dramatic fashion. Something to motivate them. They get to watch an airline crew or two in the sim work their way through an abnormal too.

Pretty funny, but nothing I can use. Come on, somebody has to have one or two on their computer. 1940 shiny yellow Piper Cub flight next time you're in Houston. Buehler?

Hey Folks, I do some human factors and safety systems consulting on the side. A portion of my presentations consist of power point and I'm alway looking to enhance those. There are two areas of customers I've always talked to about how the military does Lims and EP's, those being General Aviation folks (I do these for free at FIRC's and for any GA group that requests my help.) and my single-pilot CRM course. (The primary audience here is light jet owners who are new to turbine operations.) At any rate, describing how standup works is nowhere near as effective as actually seeing it. So, here's what I was wondering: If any of you folks might happen to have some recent videotaped footage of a standup (real or staged, I don't care) perhaps from a track-select video, would you be willing to let me use it as part of my courseware? I'd be happy to trade free attendance at one of my classes or perhaps a flight in the J-3 if you find yourself down Houston way. (I'll let you do the driving!) Thanks a bunch! LJDRVR

Old guys? But I'm still twelve emotionally - does that count?

Simply a matter of history. When I was an SP augmentee at a SAC base in the 80's, (M2 is gonna chime in here soon) it was taken very seriously. Of course this was a leftover from a culture designed by Curtis LeMay and others of his era. My Wing CC at the time would, on occasion, walk around the flightline with his parka hood zipped up and no line badge displayed. God help you if you didn't jack him up - didn't matter whether you were a cop or not. The only one I got to participate in was actually outside the area, some guy on his way home from work thought he'd take some pictures of the bombers on the flightline. This would have been no sweat had we not been in the middle of an exercise, with all the airframes containing Nukes. He didn't eat concrete, but there were firearms involved, shouting and he was detained, released to his supervisor with his camera sent to the base photo shop to have the film developed. Even SAC didn't expose your film in front of you - you got your other pictures back. Not sure if they payroll deducted the developing. Hey! Might have been a way to get your pictures developed for free!

I think you guys are reading a bit too much into this. What we have here is an amateur (very) news organization, made up of folks who love to "read" the sound of their voice. I've no doubt they have a source, but since the only new revelations their source has provided them are the rumors we've already heard, there's no story here at all. As to their website being shut down, probably a result of the Metzger's attorney filing a restraining order against them with a sympathetic judge or their own incompetence. These guys are clowns. Nobody should take them seriousely.

I got married in my mess dress, my brother was in his Marine Corps Class A's, my other Brother and my friends were in a civilian tux. Looked perfectly good and sixteen years later, we're still married. The wedding ceremony isn't just for the groom.

Gannon, In the airplane I currently fly, there are three takeoff environments: Low-Speed - (Less than 100 KIAS) In a low speed environment, we brief that we'll reject for anything. High-Speed (100KIAS to V1) We'll stop only for power loss or confirmed engine fire. (Clanging bells and flashing red lights do not necessarily mean fire.) Post V1 We're going flying no matter what. Engine failure? Normal rotation after a healthy dose of rudder to about 13 degrees nose up, followed by a climb at V2 to V2 + 15. Now, for your benefit, let's discuss the real question at hand, decision making in a single engine GA airplane after engine failure. I hope you realize the amazing breadth of aviation experience, both in terms of flight time and disparate airplanes flown that have already answered your question. I'm honored to add my two cents worth. The advice of practicing the turnaround with a CFI is excellent, as was the recommendation that you peruse Barry Schiff's article. I'll get a copy and post it. Barry also addressed the issue on video, demonstrating the results in a Cessna Cardinal. If you know of anybody with ABC's Wide World of Flying, you'll find it there. A key point to remember is that if you intend to align yourself with the runway you just departed from, you are actually accomplishing closer to a 360 degree turn. I've had an engine failure in a single engine airplane after takeoff and walked away (swam actually) from the accident. Here's my take: Wally Miller, my primary instrument instructor years ago, used to say every time we took the runway: "Today's the day the engine quits." Although I used to get marginally annoyed at that comment, turns out he's right! I was conductiong primary training in a student-owned airplane, a 48' Stinson Stationwagon. The student was performing his last takeoff before we RTB'd. The airport was a grass runway, about three thousand feet long, surrounded by water on three sides, with unsuitable terrain on the fourth. At about 800 feet or so during the climb-out, the engine began to run very, very rough, essentially producing no power. I took the airplane from the student, and simultaneously applied carb heat and executed a forty degree bank to the left. (I knew instinctively I had enough energy to make the turn.) Unfortunately, there was a good bit of wind from runway heading and by the time I had made the turn, there was not enough runway in front of me. I decided to aim for the beach south of the runway across from a marina, or make another turn to align myself with the runway. (I wasn't entirely certain yet how much thrust I had.) By the time I had reached the approach end of the runway two things had become very apparent. I didn't have enough smash or altitude to make another turn. I also didn't have enough smash or altitude to make the beach. So...I turned between two rows of docks and set the airplane down in a full-stall, three-point attitude in the lake. The airplane flipped and filled with water in much less time than it took you to read this sentence. I egressed (Read that swum out of) the airplane and yelled for my student the moment my face broke water. His shout back was one of the very sweetest sounds I've ever heard. He was in a bit of shock over the destruction of airplane and the predicament in which he know found himself. I was simply happy he was OK and knew I had done everything I could. I also suggested strongly that we get the hell out of the cold lake. After I climbed out, I watched him struggle in vain to pull himself onto the dock. The ironic thing was that beforehand, I'd jokingly tell students: "We'll shoot for the beach if the engine quits. If we have to ditch, I used to be a lifeguard, I'll pull you out." As I pulled him out of the water I thought: "Christ, who the fcuk was listening to that crap?" It took every ounce of strength I had left. I learned a couple of things that December day many years ago. The urge to turn back is very, very strong. You'd better have a plan before every single takeoff you perform. Maybe that takes some of the fun and spontaneity out of aviation for you, but then again, so does getting killed. Brief what you'll do every single time. Shoulder harnesses saved our lives. My J-3 has em' and I won't fly any airplane without them. In that type of IFE, things happen very, very quickly. Again, harping on my previous point, you'd better have done a little thinking and some hangar flying for any scenario that might happen close to the ground. Things turned out OK for us, but that doesn't negate some careful and honest Monday morning quarterbacking on my part. Should I have turned my head to address what was behind me before I commited to the turn? Yep. Your glider training will help you develop that awareness, unfortunately at the time I hadn't yet flown sailplanes. Would I have been better off landing straight ahead? Possibly. I was able to successfully ditch, but I was operating in a very low region of energy without any options or room for less than perfect technique. Thank God the Stinson had slats! I kept really good roll control right up to the end. Fortunately, I flew my A-game that day, which brings up another point: You never know when the real checkride is coming. You'd better be prepared, because it's pass/fail with much worse consequence than any pink slip. There's not a poster on this thread who puts food on the table with stick and rudder who hasn't buried at least one friend. I've lost three and any of them could have just as easily been me. What I'm trying to say is that you're only as good as your last flight. Keep working hard at your craft, no matter how long you've been doing it. The fact that even as a novice you are seeking out additional information speaks volumes about your airmanship. Please, keep that "beginner's mind" and never stop asking questions. PS - The Stinson's engine failure was the number six connectiong rod shattering. Ran perfect right up until it failed. Bob Hoover tells folks: "Fly the airplane as far into the crash as you can" Turns out he's right, too! The only injury I have from the accident is a small scar on the back of my hand from where it came off the controls and impacted something on the instrument panel during the deceleration. I'm sort of proud of that scar - I was still flying the airplane. I often look at it before takeoff and tell myself "today's the day."

Sunshine and fresh air is the best remedy for this festering scab. Someday the AF will learn that the initial embarasment of a member's misconduct is small change compared to the bad publicity that occurs when the coverup is discovered. If there was some leadership that went along the lines of: "When your folks go totally insane and pull some stunt so stupid you couldn't even make it up, the only way you will reflect poorly is if you lie, obfuscate and attempt to avoid the issue." She should have been publicly hung out to dry right after her big lie.

OK, my mistake, I see what you're up to. My advice was for somebody logging empty leg time on an AC that doesn't require an SIC. Those folks are the ones that need to be able to discuss the airplane they flew during their next interview. Good luck on the Learjet job, I flew those for almost six years - great airplanes. Sounds like you're interviewing for a real position.

The "ride-along" stuff is nebulous at best. What type of airplane is it? If no SIC is required, you can't log SIC time. If you are going to be the sole manipulator on empty legs, there are a couple of considerations: You need to have three TOL's with an instructor first. If you're going to log the time as PIC, you had better be prepared during a job interview to answer all ATP level, oral-type questions about the airplane you flew. No kidding. Bold-Face, ops limits, sytems - you name it. You'd better have it down cold or you'll be shown the door. Regarding your resume, here's the thing: Nobody is going to go through their big stack of resume's and pick yours out for a phone call, unless there are special circumstances. (You have a ton of time in their airframe and are current.) You'll get hired by showing continued interest in the position. That means the occasional visit to express that you're still interested. Wear a suit. Be polite. If you're currently working as a pilot, wear the uniform you have now. If you're genuine and earnest, eventually they'll hire you just to get you to quit bugging them. Best of luck, if you need help or advice, give me a call anytime. LJDRVR 281 859 8459

Cables, bellcranks and pulleys. Long missions in an uncomfortable suit, without the ability to stand or walk.

I was stationed at Beale for a coupe of years before I seperated. Although there were times my wife and I complained about it, I miss Northern California a lot. I lived in base housing and had the foothills in my backyard. I could slide open the patio door and start hiking right up the firebreak. Marysville/Yuba City are usually number 299/300 on the Rand McNally list of the 300 best places to live. But the vally is great and the mountains are wonderful. Long weekend? Take the Wife/Husband/SO down to the bay area. or Napa Vally. Or skiing at Tahoe. Our camping in the mountains. Like to run or ride your bike? Best CONUS base for such activities. I can't speak to the flying activities, but are you kidding? You get to: Fly a jet powered taidragger that climbs in excess of 60 degrees nose up. An airplane that no matter how experienced you are in it, will continue to challenge you. Tired of that? You get to strap on a T-38 for proficiency. You get to be a member of a small, hand-picked cadre of aviators that does something unique in all of aviation wiwth a rich history. (Not many people can name the guy who designed a C-130, but everybody knows Kelly Johnson.) You get to work in a Squadron that values it's heritage and history. Fantasy Island. There are very few jobs in aviation that raise even a hint of envy in me. I've lived my childhood dream and flown more than 58 types of aircraft. I fly in a comfortable Boeing at a major airline for a living and my "companion trainer" is my own J-3 Cub. I would trade it all to fly U-2's. You guys who are even remotely inrigued by this ought to be looking into it. Look at it this way. At my airline, all the ex F-15's drivers (For example) don't have any idea who each other is. (For the most part.) All the U-2 folks know one another other, even if they weren't in the program at the same time. Why is that?

Well, that sucks. Come on over to the airlines. First beer is on me, we'll talk trash and chase mentally deranged flight attendant poontang. Like I said in my original post, perhaps it's me who lost SA. Isn't the first time and won't be the last.

Chuck - Thank you for the well thought out response, you make some good points, all without taking my post personally. I'll back off from the hyperbole and frame this in terms of perspective. First - I left active duty in 95', so maybe I haven't seen the worst of it. But I worked as an enlisted person in supply for many years and I just didn't see an adversarial culture of trying to hinder the Aviator. Hell, it wasn't tolerated in SAC. We had the very occasional dork, they didn't last long. Most of us held Pilots and Navs in very high regard. What I do see is lot of folks painting with a wide brush just because some idiot got his panties in a wad. Who gives a crap? I used to see letters like his all the time. Anybody who read them could easily see it was nothing but a sociopath crying for attention. Frankly, I was surprised he was dumb enough to put his name on it. I was simply trying to point out the outcry over the letter of one SNCO is very similar in scale and in some cases, foolishness to the guy who got bent out of shape over a patch. (Article 15 for insubordination? AYFKM?) You guys are above this kind of crap. Is it really that bad on active duty?

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here: Who gives a crap? Captain Hammond should be commended for wearing her FUBAR patch for official photos - I think it's great. But here you guys are, a bunch of Officers and Pilots, emoting through your manginas about some clueless dude that wrote a letter to the Air Force times? So what? Are you folks aware that for every tool like him, there are dozens of enlisted folks who look up to and admire you guys? Yet you're more than happy to stereotype them all under the snide moniker of "shoeclerk", expressing your disdain for anybody who's not a warrior or directly involved with your small sphere of influence. I've got news for you guys: Your SA is way low. Do you really think you just step to the jet without hundreds of people involved in the effort? Back when I was a shoelclerk, I once worked for a MSgt who had just returned from a TDY at an operating Det. What did she enjoy the most about her 90 days at Cypress? Jumping folks crap about their reflective belts? Complaining about UHF discipline in a letter writing campaign? Nope. Getting to work next to, see up close and occasionally even touch the ISR asset she normally supported from afar. What we take for granted as just another airplane was for her, a sort of reward for a career of working behind the scenes supporting operations in some office without windows. How would she feel if she happened upon this website and saw you guys, whom she thought the world of, acting like a bunch of spoiled little pussies whining about every perceived injustice? Now, maybe my SA is low coming on here and rubbing your noses in it in such a manner, after all - it is primarily a pilot's website and who the hell am I to question you? Toro can send me packing if he wishes, but you guys really sound like a bunch of spoiled children whose ability to see the big picture and respond in a mature fashion is severely compromised. There, rants over. Flame away.