Steve Davies

All valid points, and several new ones for me to think about. But I suppose that final sentence is what it all boils down to, just as it should. Cheers Steve

Brick I think that's a valid concern, but I think that you answer your own question with your first paragraph: if the likes of Boeing and Lockmart know that the US Government is willing to source a product from an foreign nation, then it might help increase their competitiveness, pricing and innovation. Of course, that does not help those American men and women who may lose their jobs, but perhaps that is a small price to pay for the nation as a whole? I am just playing Devil's advocate, you understand. Again, i think that this is a valid question. But don't forget that Britain is a member of the EU and makes the wings and other components for Airbus, and since we are 'closer' to America than we are either France or Germany, I just don't think we would allow that situation to develop to a stage where the plug was pulled. I am no political analyst, so I could be talking out of my arse, but that's my instinct (FWIW). Fair enough!

Brick I would view EADS competing with Boeing as a good thing for the US military, not as a bad thing. The fact of the matter is that Boeing and Lockmart have what amounts to a shared monopoly over US Defence business, and that's not healthy for the war fighter for a number of very obvious reasons. Regarding the potential to fall out, I would counter that France owns only 22.5 per cent of EADS. Germany is an equal share holder, and Italy (or Spain, can't recall off the top of my head) owns another 5 per cent. The rest of the company is publicly owned by shareholders around the world. So, my view is that the argument that France could hold you to ransom is both over simplistic and unlikely, especially if the supporting contracts specifically forbade political interference. As for what opportunities Boeing has been offered in Europe, this part of the world has bought tens of billions of Dollars' worth of arms and aircraft from US companies over the decades, so America has prospered just fine, even if Boeing doesn't have a plant here. What I just don't understand through, is why you would even care? Looking at the posts on this board, I see a lot of war fighters wishing for better equipment and tools with which to get the job done, but not once have I seen anyone add any caveats about who makes it or where it comes from. What would EADS do with the factory once the order was complete? Good question.

Assuming they went with the EADS offering, you don't think that creating 1,300 additional jobs in Alabama would be a good thing? From the visits I've made there, it seemed to me that it could do with all the help it can get.

I don't really understand what it is that you are taking issue with, or what it is that is so 'amazing'. Neither article gave more than the pilot's name and rank, with the unit being obvious. And if he were shot down, his name and rank are two of the things that he is allowed to reveal to his captors! As for retaliation by 'bad guys down range', I can only assume that if the Air Force thought that was even remotely likely, it would enforce a greater level of protection for the identities of these men and women. Of course, if Rainman were here he'd simply say, 'Never talk to the media'.

The real question should be, 'Why are there huge gaps in the Thunderbirds' display sequence, where the crowd can turn their backs to the display line, walk off and grab a hot dog and a drink, and then come back to and still have not missed anything?'.

This post and the poster's handle should be preserved for posterity. It can join such other classics as Cosmo UPT Stud and the Defensive Egg post.

Looks like France's unemployment figures are going to increase by a digit or two.

My favourite of all time comes from the 1977 AIMVAL: F-14 pilot Joe "Hoser" Strapa was pitted against a USN Adversary in a 1-v-1 scenario. The indicated engagement would be ‘guns only’. Strapa VIDed and killed the his opponent with a Fox One on both passes. In the debrief, the angry Adversary pilot challenged the Tomcat Driver’s ‘cheating’ asking, "Hoser, what the hell happened to credibility?" Hoser, with appropriate thumb gestures accompanying his response, replied "Credibility is down, kill ratio is up!" It's in one of my books, so it must be true!

I would love to have been a pilot flying Tempests in those days... But not one flying SE.5s(?) in those days!

No kidding. And it was happening in Operation Provide Comfort I and II in the immediate aftermath of ODS. The Turks halted all activity from the 'Lik while they bombed the Kurds first thing in the morning, and when they were done they lifted the ban and allowed the Yanks and Brits to fly in and drop the same people aid. It is incredible that it has taken some people so long to realise how fucked up that is.

CRM be damned, there are far more important things for these guys to worry about. Their throttles have been reversed, for a start... Great clip.

On a serious note, by doing this, does SWA leave itself open to other groups in society complaining that they are being discriminated against because they are not specifically catered for? I mean, will SWA next be putting up a page for 'black friendly' cities to visit? Or, how about Muslim friendly ones?

The advert states that the vehicle can stop a 30,000lb aircraft, but gives no figure to say over what distance and from what speed. As such, I think that you need to be pretty easy to please to be impressed by it. And, isn't a C-123K closer to 35,000lb empty weight?

That is funny.

Timing, yes. Composition, no - the image is a crop of what is actually a crap photo.

As requested, correcting you because you are wrong... Do you know what the Swiss flag looks like? (clue: ) Do you know what the Danish flag looks like? (clue: ) ...Switzerland has never operated the Viper.

I love this forum. You guys all crack me up.

Brick I think that most of your questions could be answered by anyone who has read Michel's excellent book, Clashes.

Seeing as this thread is going to go down in the history books as Baseops' best yet, I needed to get a post in here to say I was part of it. Nice job Bunk, AK and Scribe on busting this guy.

I had the tour, only I was lucky enough to take it on my own and without either PA escort of someone watching the clock. I particularly liked the ROLAND. Like all the others, it's a crap article that does little to delve below the surface of this fascinating programme. There is much, much more to the squadron, if only people would spend a little time talking to the players behind it.

It is said that an awful lot is buried out there, and even that some of it may well be dug up and restored in the future. What was the 1944 tail fin from? Please excuse my inquisitiveness, but are you the Alfakilo of Zipper, Rhino and Hog fame? EDIT: Just checked your profile and it seems you are indeed. Welcome to Baseops!

After almost two years of hunting, I have finally been sent an array of images from the Constant Peg programme. As far as I know, this is the first time that any 4477th TES images have been released into the public domain: Checkout the following link and click the main picture: Constant Peg Images

Yes. I do. I think that the fact that the Widow could claim that she had be lied to by both the USAF and the MoD gave the media the fuel they needed to turn it into a witch hunt. Had the USAF and MoD been open and honest, the media would have had far less to play with. This is especially pertinent to you, so you may want to pass it on: I don't think that the British Public would argue that fratricides in war are unavoidable. I think that they just want the families to be treated with the respect that they deserve. Of course some tabloids will denounce the 'trigger happy, Top Gun flyers' and the like, but I think that the views across the board are going to be more balanced if the Air Force talks to the families of those killed and tries to help them understand what happened. IIRC, the widow of Cpl Mattey Hull (of A-10 frat incident) got some crappy letter from the Vice Wing of the unit concerned, which simply made things much worse because it appeared neither remorseful nor sincere.

I just hope that the MoD and USAF are open and transparent in ensuing investigation. The families deserve no less. RIP the three soldiers.